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Hi guys, right I've been deliberating over a new army for a while now, from Orcs and Goblins to Vampire Counts to Dwarfs. I've settled on the Dark Elves because I like the models, the colour scheme and the general rules as well. Here is my first attempt at a general army list that will hopefully do well against a variety of opponents.

1x Supreme Sorceress- Level 4, Tome of Furion, Darkstar Cloak, Focus Familiar, Sacrificial Dagger- 350pts
1x Master- Battle Standard Bearer- 105pts
30x Dark Elf Spearmen- Shields, Full Command, Banner of Murder- 250pts
20x Corsairs- Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard- 250pts
16x Crossbowmen- Full Command- 180pts
16x Crossbowmen- Full Command- 180pts
5x Dark Riders- Full Command- 145pts
5x Cold One Knights- Full Command- 175pts
15x Black Guard- Full Command, Standard of Hag Graef- 265pts
5x Shades- Bloodshade- 98pts

1,998 pts

please give me your opinions on improvements or anything else which may make it better to play with, but bear in mind I am a student and don't have the cash to purchase a unit of 30 Black Guard or two War Hydra's, Thanks.

Well you've certainly written a versatile list, I can see a few issues with it though...

Firstly you've got 2 cavalry regiments of only 5 models, this in my experience equals easy kills for your opponent. Sadly cavalry took a really big hit with the 8th ed rules and you need a decent sized regiment if you're going to get anything out of them. If this were my army I'd drop the Dark Riders and double the size of the Cold One knights (or vice versa.)

Secondly (and this is strictly my personal opinion) you've wasted a whole bundle of points on a small regiment of Black Guard. Ok they may hit harder than your Core choices but elite elves tend to die just as quickly as regular elves but cost a lot more so you don't get as many. Personally I'd spend those point on a Hydra and some more Warriors.

This brings me to my next point, why no Hydras? They are obscenely good for their points cost and even if they don't kill anything they certainly act as an arrow/warmachine magnet.

Finally I think you should make that horde of warriors 40 strong, that should ensure you still have 3 full ranks by the time you get to combat and it provide more bodies for your sacrificial dagger.

Hmmm, yeah I definitely agree on the cavalry, experience with my Warriors of Chaos army and knights has shown me that. I'm inclined to go with Dark Riders simply because they are fast cavalry, which is so useful.

The Black Guard are there because I wanted to field an elite unit and I like the models. Not including the War Hydra is more due to finance than any other reason, I agree it has a great profile.

I definitely think I will find those few points to bump the Spearmen up to 40 models. An Elf spearmen with shield for 7 points is very cheap in my opinion, especially with eternal hatred. All in all thank you because this is exactly what I wanted

I like the list its different, But

First, I see that your Supreme Sorceress has lots of items but no protection what so ever she will die soo quick. Focus familiar is unnecessary imo. Give her PoK or something.
Same goes with your BSB but big time you cant let him die.

The Xbows dont need champs waste of points... use those points to give them shields.

I like your dark riders i want to try some out. Im interest to see how they do but i dont know if they should have FC or not..

CoK only 5 first off I really dont like they have done nothing for me 3 games in a row. And why full command? there banner will be of no use in a fight because they should be flank charging a unit that is already pinned down by warrior with a banner... champ= not good use of points imo.

Shades- again waste on the champ. imo

Al right I think I'll rework the Sorceress for some protection as well as the Battle Standard. Shields is a good idea instead of champion. I do like the Dark Riders but again maybe Full Command isn't a great idea. Is it worth dropping Command for extra models? for example a 6 man unit instead? I think Full commands everywhere need to be rethought from what you guys have said. Thanks a lot. A Shade champ is maybe overkill and hopefully if I cut the points enough I can make room for an assassin

Some additional thoughts....

I've not had any luck with Dark Riders so I'm dropping them from my 2000pt list, but since you've clearly got more of a focus on missile troops than I have they could work for you quite nicely.

I personally find that full commands are a must have and include them in every regiment but that is my personal choice, I could certainly understand dropping the RXB and Shade champions though.

You say that the choice of BG is based on your finances, a Hydra costs £35 that regiment of 15 BG would cost £39.

I agree with IHEARTLARGEBLASTTEMPLATES that your Supreme Sorceress needs something to protect her.

being honest I like the idea of lots of crossbows with a strong infantry base. I do prefer to have full commands simply because they look better and are easier to remember . Your point about the Hydra I forgot to mention that I can purchase Black Guard/ Executioners/ Witch Elves cheaper so the Hydra would still be more expensive, also I'd prefer to have another infantry block than one monster

Fair enough, I just go by GWs prices. If you'd rather have another block of infantry go for it.

First question: you mention you're on a limited income but list quite a few models here. Have you already bought them, or are you planning to buy them? If you have not purchased anything yet, then you can certainly save yourself a lot of money by proxying with labeled movement trays until you figure out exactly what you want to field.

And now going down your list.

Supreme Sorceress: She is highly illegal. Every one of those items you listed are Arcane Items. Wizards can carry a total of one arcane item at a given time. If you intend to leave her on foot (which I don't particularly suggest), you can leave her with just the Dagger and pick up a small unit of naked Spearmen to put her with. Alternatively, put her with a block of Crossbowmen with the Focus Familiar and Talisman of Preservation (4+ Ward Save). My personal preference is putting her on a Dark Pegasus. In any case, you don't want her at the front of your big block of tarpit, that's an easy way for her to get killed.

Master BSB: Why is he naked? Unlike the Sorceress, this guy can (and must) pick up weapons and armor. For a foot BSB an easy build is something like this: Beastman's Scourge, full mundane armor (heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak), and the Pendant of Khaeleth. This gives him a 3+ armor save and a reverse ward save against nearly everything. Alternatively, Armor of Eternal Servitude, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, and the Dragonbane Gem gives a 3+ armor and 4+ regen save against nearly everything. Flaming attacks that ignore the Regen save activate a 2+ ward save from the Gem.

Spearmen: A decent enough block of chaff infantry. Your big problem with them is that you do not have any heavy hitters other than a 5-man unit of Knights to take advantage of flank charges from things that get stuck in. Handy things for this tend to be Chariots, Hydra, or Cold One Knights. Note that the first two are better.

Corsairs: You get 20 in a Battalion box, so you may as well use them. They don't really need the Champion, he only adds one attack and costs twice as much as a standard guy. The musician also isn't particularly necessary.

Crossbowmen: They don't need a champion at all. They don't really need a standard bearer, but it is handy for certain missions. With this moderately-large unit I'd definitely keep the musician for quick-reforms, though.

Dark Riders: A single unit with Crossbows can be handy. They don't need any command at all, but a musician is handy for them. However, if you have not already purchased these, I would say to consider other units that will not cost as much money to make or buy. The only Dark Riders we have are either the old OOP ones or making them out of Glade Riders and Warrior bits. The Riders aren't nearly as great as they were in 7th and many people tend to avoid them entirely.

Cold One Knights: Again, they come in the box so may as well use them. A small unit of 5 is better left without any command options. This saves you 40(!!) points and you will not see a big difference in their effectiveness. A small unit like this is made to hit something big and scary with the S6 Lances and the S4 Lizards and hope it dies.

Black Guard: These guys have really fallen from grace in 8th edition. It's not that they're any worse, but now that casualties are removed from the back these infantry-eaters can be struck back and they die just like Spearmen. The models also aren't exactly cheap with both points and cash in mind. If you are set on using them, they don't need the ASF banner since they're I6 already; it only helps chop up High Elves. You could consider giving the champion the Crimson Death for S6 and giving them the Flaming Banner to help with monsters. Overall, I really prefer Witches in this edition since they die just as easily but are cheaper, get more attacks, and have poison.

Shades: The champion is wholly unnecessary. Bump these guys up to 6-7 and toss in an extra hand weapon and they'll be happier.

No I'm intending to purchase mostly plastic sets so that it works out cheaper. I didn't know about the limited arcane items. Dark Pegasus seems a good idea. BSB yeah I'm working on protecting him. I am using 20 corsairs already. Yeah I'm planning on converting Dark Riders from Glade Riders. Maybe replacing the Cold one Knights with a Chariot and spend the remaining points elsewhere would be more sensible but I'm trying to include things from the Battalion so that I can save money

Updated my previous post, wasn't quite finished earlier when the wife snagged the PC.

hahaha no problems. Kirbinator, I do like the idea of 5 Dark Riders but I think with your input only the musician is really necessary. Maybe Full Command on the Knights isn't that necessary as it costs a lot, it's just I don't want to buy a battalion then not use half of what is in the box. Black Guard do seem a little worse off and maybe the ASF banner would be better for a unit of Executioners. Finally yeah the Shades dropping the champ and extra hand weapons is a great idea. I'll post another list later tonight, all of this has been really helpful thanks a lot.

snackajack93 wrote:Maybe Full Command on the Knights isn't that necessary as it costs a lot, it's just I don't want to buy a battalion then not use half of what is in the box.

Not using a few command options could hardly be considered not using half the box. I saw a very nice Master BSB conversion using a Knight's armor, helmet head, banner, and hand weapon, and then using a standard Warrior's legs. Looks very clean, makes him stand out as the character model in your Spearmen unit, and lets you use some of those bits.

snackajack93 wrote:Black Guard do seem a little worse off and maybe the ASF banner would be better for a unit of Executioners.

Some people love big blocks of Executioners. Others (like me) think they're still pretty rubbish. They would be significantly better if they could take the ASF banner on their own, but they can't. It is a 35-point banner, and they can only take up to a 25-point banner. The only way to give them ASF is through a Death Hag BSB, which is a very suboptimal choice since you have a naked frenzied lady as your BSB, begging to be killed and hand over victory points. They are very nice models, though.

I was going to say somethings along the lines of what Kirbinator said. He knows what hes saying, he has guided me before i would listen to him.

Yeah Kirbinator you've been really helpful, when i said half the box I meant the Cold one knights not the full command options With the executioners could you not just use a master as a BSB or can he not join the unit due to the Khainite rule? I'm unsure on an "elite" unit, so to speak, Witch Elves, Executioners or Black Guard. I'm looking to you Kirbinator here because you do seem to know what your talking about

I have something to say about "elites"

Witch Elves: I heard are quite good but they are glass hammers they do need a CoB and big units. But can dish out crazy attacks and poison is impressive.

Executioners: The same as the witch elves really i have heard that they are only really viable with a CoB and horde. But im going to try a unit of ten to act as a mini hammer for an anvil sort of like a 5 man CoK unit but with Executioners.

Black Guard: very mixed reviews i have read. So maybe Kirbinator has some thoughts.

Regarding the Master joining Khainites can't happen. It says only khainites can join khainites but khainites can join non-khainites.

Hey now, don't go putting me on some kind of pedestal! There are plenty of Dark Elf players here, I just happened to show up with a wall of text first. Most of my advice is just how to get the most for your points. As far as actual gameplay and such I'm still very new to 8th edition.

It's your army and the nice thing about Dark Elves is that even our least optimal choices are still pretty decent, just not as good as the others. I personally don't like Executioners since every fight you put them in means you're relying on having enough live through the onslaught to be able to strike back. With T3 and a 5+ armor save, this isn't very good to me. However, Dark Elves are often a very synergy-minded army. If you toss those Executioners at a line of Chaos Knights that have been made S2 thanks to a Shadow-wielding Sorceress, suddenly they aren't so scary.

Kirbinator wrote:Hey now, don't go putting me on some kind of pedestal! There are plenty of Dark Elf players here, I just happened to show up with a wall of text first. Most of my advice is just how to get the most for your points. As far as actual gameplay and such I'm still very new to 8th edition.

Yup, you were the first, and left me nothing to really post about list wise.

Gameplay wise here is what I would suggest:

Use your lvl 4 to weaken your opponents strongest units. I have taken WoC units out of the game because they were dropped to M2 for the entire game. I would suggest trying for the hex's over Okhims or Pit (both are nice but neither has won me a game yet - but the hex's always are useful)

BSB should go in the warriors unit (which needs to be in the center of your line to get the best use out of the banner)

Xbows - find points for shields if you can. That way they can act as a decent block after combat reaches them. Corsairs should be on a flank to slam into whatever the warriors are holding up.

Shades/DR - go after warmachienes as they can ruin your day really quick will all those blocks. If there are none, they need to pepper/follow units and just shoot them.


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snackajack93 wrote:Yeah Kirbinator you've been really helpful, when i said half the box I meant the Cold one knights not the full command options With the executioners could you not just use a master as a BSB or can he not join the unit due to the Khainite rule? I'm unsure on an "elite" unit, so to speak, Witch Elves, Executioners or Black Guard. I'm looking to you Kirbinator here because you do seem to know what your talking about

Witches will be the best bet imo. They are the cheapest of the elites that can be taken in blocks (I would use special points on more shades or chariot) and while they lack armor against most good big shooting armor really doesn't do much anyway. Use them like Corsairs and flank/rear charge them.

I didnt mean to put you on a pedestal but the advice so far has been very good here's another army list that seems to be more practical

1x Master- heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, battle standard- 115pts
1x Sorcerer- level 2, tome of furion- 150pts
1x Master- heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, cold one- 110pts
20x corsairs- command, sea serpent standard- 250pts
20x corsairs- command, repeater hand bows-225pts
25x spearmen- command- 190pts
16x crossbowmen- command, shields- 196pts
16x crossbowmen- command, shields- 196pts
10x cold one knights- command- 310pts
5x dark riders- repeater crossbows- 110pts
1x assassin- rune of khaine, touch of death- 145pts

1,997pts

the idea here is that the spearmen with the battle standard are positioned dead centre with a unit of corsairs either side. The crossbows will be there to soften up the tougher targets such as chaos warriors etc. the dark riders are there for misdirecting and generally annoying my opponent. the cold on knights with master are my shock cavalry as I know only big units of cavalry are successful in the new rules. the assassin is simply there for fun because i like the idea of it and used correctly he could be deadly. the sorcerer is there for some magic.

Hope this is better and again comments/ improvements are always welcomed

PS the black guard were dropped because they are still fairly weak and although good in combat a unit of 15 wont last long and the 20 strong corsairs seem a better idea to me, personally anyway.

Hmm i like the improvement but again BSB and sorceress not much protection mean they NEED a ward save. Your 2nd master i dont see the point of him? He has no equipment to do any kind of job. Why downgrade the Supreme sorceress to just Sorceress at 2000 pts. you should have a lord choice IMO.
And i think you should try my assassin build out i LOVE it and has never failed me. Assassin- Extra hand weapon, Rune of Khaine, Man bane. It works wonder hitting on re-roll-able 3+ and wounding on 3+ and will almost always have enough strength to pen. armor well. He is always a threat to any army because he has so many attacks and is so versatile i really recommend you try him if you take an assassin you wont be let down. I suggest maybe getting another unit of dark riders for more mobility/harassment. Because with your big blocks they will be strong but slow so two units of them can protect/threaten flanks, which is helpful, considering your main infantry cant really do that, besides the shades. So basically you hurting most in heroes section. I build my Sorceress's with PoK as a standard. And BSB there are lots of ways you could go i take armor of eternal servitude, dragon bane gem, and beast masters scourge. Just some thoughts.

@kirby

I agree with your thoughts on executioners considering they have to survive getting attacked first, but my idea is to give them banner of har ganeth or whatever its called to give them ASF and watch them butcher enemies! I thought that would make them much more viable.

snackajack93 wrote:I didnt mean to put you on a pedestal but the advice so far has been very good here's another army list that seems to be more practical

1x Master- heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, battle standard- 115pts
Needs a ward save, drop the heavy armor and get him Armor of Destiny, now he's packing a 3+/4+. Another option, since he'll be getting into combat, is to give him the pendant of khaeleth. Comes out a little cheaper than the armor, and the reverse ward save is great for tie-ing up enemy heavy hitters. Either way works, but get him one, too many ways to snipe characters in this edition, and an armor save is all but useless.

1x Sorcerer- level 2, tome of furion- 150pts
If all you're planning on taking is a lvl 2, then ToF is a keeper, but so is a ward save, Pendant of khaeleth is decent, but a real ward I find to serve much better. Also, maybe consider a pegasus for the added mobility. What lore do you plan on using?

1x Master- heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, cold one- 110pts
Not even a lance? One rule that's helped me out a lot with dark elves, do NOT go cheap on your characters, take advantage of our great magic items. Give him the crimson death, and maybe a dawnstone to give him a reroll on armor save, another option could be Ironcurse Icon, if it saves 1 knight it's earned 5.5 times it's price back.

20x corsairs- command, sea serpent standard- 250pts
20x corsairs- command, repeater hand bows-225pts
I'm going to catch some flak for this, but I don't like corsairs at these sizes, I've had tremendous success with a block of 30 with SSS. Almost every game they take the hardest my opponent has to off and they stick around, only times I've lost them is when my caster blew up inside of them, and I had to sac them to redirect a block of 50 orc big uns off the table to buy me a turn.

25x spearmen- command- 190pts
I've never used them, but once again, why avoid taking advantage of our benefits? Give them the AP banner, makes them a lot more effective in combat.

16x crossbowmen- command, shields- 196pts
16x crossbowmen- command, shields- 196pts
These do NOT need unit champions. They are only 5 points, but just aren't worth it. Also, 16 is a rather awkward value, as they aren't as great as shooting as 20, and they can't rank up very well. I'd find a way to get two units of 20, or run one at 20 and the other at 10.

10x cold one knights- command- 310pts
My personal experience has proved this unit to be a major, MAJOR disappointment, to the point I'm almost about to bench them. Maybe they'll be more effective with the master in them providing some punch. Maybe it has something to do with me having about a 50% fail rate on their stupidity test (with LD9 shouldn't be happening). At the most you're looking at 10 S6 hits on a charge followed by 5 S4 from mounts, plus the attacks from the master. What roll do you plan to use this that output? As a combo charge with spears, who will deny ranks for you?

5x dark riders- repeater crossbows- 110pts
No complaints, need something to hunt down warmachines.

1x assassin- rune of khaine, touch of death- 145pts
Not my preference, but again, I've heard plenty of good things about assassins.

1,997pts

the idea here is that the spearmen with the battle standard are positioned dead centre with a unit of corsairs either side. The crossbows will be there to soften up the tougher targets such as chaos warriors etc. the dark riders are there for misdirecting and generally annoying my opponent. the cold on knights with master are my shock cavalry as I know only big units of cavalry are successful in the new rules. the assassin is simply there for fun because i like the idea of it and used correctly he could be deadly. the sorcerer is there for some magic.

Hope this is better and again comments/ improvements are always welcomed

PS the black guard were dropped because they are still fairly weak and although good in combat a unit of 15 wont last long and the 20 strong corsairs seem a better idea to me, personally anyway.

I made suggestions above in red.

This might sound weird, but for a 2k list you have too many units, and with none of those units being hydras! My 2k list that I've been using to steamroll people involves 5 units total - 2 of which are hydras. I just don't like DE MSU since if they kill 28 of my 30 corsairs, they still get zero VPs however, if they kill 28 corsairs from the two units, chances are one of them is wiped out, giving away VPs.

Also, I would get a lord level character. At 2k points, you'll be facing some decent magic. Having +4 to dispel is a world of difference than +2. And the same thing for your turn. If you plan on casting anything, +4 vs their +4 is much better than your +2 to their +4.

Go ahead and try out that CoK unit, they could potentially hurt some stuff. Personally I would drop down to one unit of 30 corsairs (again, people are going to disagree with me on this) get rid of the assassin.
Take those points and upgrade that lvl 2 to a lvl 4 with the darkstar cloak, talisman of preservation and maybe a pegasus, and give your BSB the pendant.

Anyway, that's my take.

EDIT: And as stated above, executioners and black guard have become pretty crappy based off of step up alone. I laughed when I saw that thread on here that listed black guard as a must have unit...

Just a short message here, on a break at work.

IHEARTLARGEBLASTTEMPLATES wrote:@kirby

I agree with your thoughts on executioners considering they have to survive getting attacked first, but my idea is to give them banner of har ganeth or whatever its called to give them ASF and watch them butcher enemies! I thought that would make them much more viable.

It's the Banner of Hag Graef. We covered earlier that only a Death Hag BSB can offer Executioners ASF. The Death Hag is not exactly inexpensive and while she can be moderately fiesty in close combat, the best protection she can get is a 5+ ward save for 35 points (same as Pendant), and makes your Executioners have all the downfalls of Frenzy and none of the benefits. It's not that she causes the Executioners to be frenzied, but if they don't charge alongside her the Death Hag will go running out on her own.

Back to the OP, that list needs some work, much of which Greenbay has touched on. I wouldn't really consider the proposed army as MSU-style, but it's certainly not just three large blocks of infantry and two monsters. If you plan on running a foot-based BSB without a magic weapon, you should pick up the Beastmaster's Scourge. It gives him an additional attack and Armor Piercing, not too shabby. I pointed out a couple builds earlier in this thread.

I'm not so sure about the "Do not go cheap with characters" mentality. I think it's better viewed as selecting units/characters with a purpose. Why are you adding a Master to those Cold One Knights? Do you feel they need even more S6 hits? Are you ok with that unit failing Stupidity on average once per game on any given turn? The only way to help prevent that is to keep them close to your BSB, but then you're not using their mobility.

And... time's up. I'll post more later.

Greenbay924 has lots of good ideas.

I will disagree on the Corsairs. 20 of them work decently as a flanking unit but 2 units of 20 is a waste of points - hoard them (30 is good) or only take one unit. The handbows are also pointless, too small of a range and you lose that extra attack in CC which is why you take Corsairs in the first place (they act as a buzzsaw to cut through units, instead of keeping them in place - see spears for that job).

You really need a lvl 4 at 2k. Otherwise you really won't have a magic phase worth anything. The magic phase imo is almost as important as the movement phase in this edition (not for the killing spells but for all the augments/hex's that win you combat).

AP banner on the spears is a must. DE need as many armor piercing units on the table as possible.

CoK - waste of points. they are the only unit that will get hit with cannons and other warmachienes sense you don't have any other big targets.

Assassin - the only build that works decently (once again this is my opinion) is the rending stars build. Your assassin with manbane, xtra hand wepon and rune of khaine may dish out alot of damage but then will get killed by return attacks thanks to step up. I don't particularly care for the character killer build either as I usually have a dreadlord for those situations.

Hmmmm reading through these comments it seems a Lord level character is needed, the master on cold one seems a bit overkill, more protection for my characters are needed, the spearmen need the armour piercing banner, the assassin would be better with different war gear, the crossbowmen need different unit sizes.

Things I do agree with are keeping the character points down so that I can include more units. The cold one knights are there as a shock unit so to speak, if they can an enemy in a flank alongside a unit of corsairs the unit should break


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Here is yet another reworked army list which hopefully improves on those areas that could be improved upon again comments always welcome and sorry to be a pain.

1x supreme sorceress- level 4, tome of furion (extra spell), talisman of preservation (4+ ward)- 320pts
place her with a unit of crossbowmen so that she has protection and generally use her to batter the opponents tougher units and make things easier for my units in combat

1x master- heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, battle standard, pendant of khaeleth- 150pts
placed with the spearmen in the centre of my line so that the most units gain the benefit of the standard

23x spearmen- command, shields, banner of murder- 201pts

20x corsairs- command, sea serpent standard- 250pts

2x corsairs- command- 225pts

5x dark riders- repeater crossbows- 110pts

5x dark riders- repeater crossbows- 110pts

16x crossbowmen- standard, musician, shields- 191pts

16x crossbowmen- standard, musician, shields- 191pts

5x cold one knights- 135pts

1x assassin- manbane- 115pts

1998pts

i agree the cold one knights was a big investment for their actual points cost and another unit of dark riders seems a really good idea. i've kept the crossbowmen at 16 because i disagree that they are hard to rank up and it seems logical from what you get in the battalion

snackajack93 wrote:
16x crossbowmen- standard, musician, shields- 191pts

16x crossbowmen- standard, musician, shields- 191pts

5x cold one knights- 135pts

1x assassin- manbane- 115pts

i agree the cold one knights was a big investment for their actual points cost and another unit of dark riders seems a really good idea. i've kept the crossbowmen at 16 because i disagree that they are hard to rank up and it seems logical from what you get in the battalion

16 Xbows form up 5x3 + 1 where 20 go 5x4 which is a big difference for combat.

5 CoK in the flank may work, but once again you don't have any other big threat targets so most shooting will knock these guys out turn 1.

Assassin - whats the point? He needs to be geared for something, manbane alone will not due. I would drop him and pick up the 8 Xbows you need. If you want to keep him drop the CoK, give him rending stars and a unit of shades to hide in.

Point about the crossbows taken now, what would you suggest as a rock unit so to speak? Not sure on the assassin maybe I'll make room for some shades, I don't know how though :/


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Point about the crossbows taken now, what would you suggest as a rock unit so to speak? Not sure on the assassin maybe I'll make room for some shades, I don't know how though :/

Also, when the battalion was made, the 16 models could rank up to 4x4, as in 6th edition 4 wide was a rank. (same reason the dark elf box still comes with 16 models).

I've never used an assassin this edition, All I know is with step up, they are pretty useless in combat, they'll get their 3-4 attacks, and then die to clanrats even, hardly worth the 100+ points spent on him. If he's put in a unit of shades with rending stars + manbane, he might be effective and that's usually how I see people taking him, since he can hit warmachines on 2s and wound on 3s.

I'd give the unit of 5 CoKs a try, put them on a flank, hope they pass their stupidity and hope they cause your opponent to have to think about them all game. If your opponent puts his units out of position of the rest of your army to take on a unit of 5 CoKs, that could be worth 135 points.

Maybe the assassin is a big points investment. I don't know how many of these I have posted but here's another army list and hopefully at this point I'm fixing down a decent list, all of your help has been invaluable and I'm glad I didn't get unrealistic suggestions like two Hydra's etc

1x sorceress- level 2, tome of furion- 150pts
1x master- shield, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, battle standard, pendant of khaeleth- 150pts
20x corsairs- command, sea serpent standard- 250pts
20x corsairs- command- 225pts
30x spearmen- command, banner of murder- 250pts
20x crossbowmen- standard, musician, shields- 235pts
20x crossbowmen- standard, musician, shields- 235pts
5x dark riders- repeater crossbows- 110pts
10x cold one knights- command- 310pts
5x shades- two hand weapons- 85pts

2,000pts exactly

Hopefully this provides a solid battle line with the spearmen (containing the battle standard), with a unit of corsairs either side. The cold one knights will be slamming into the flank of any unit engaged by the infantry blocks, the crossbowmen will be weakening the tougher units and, with shields, can provide extra bodies where needed and hold their own for a round or two of combat or needs be. The dark riders are there for war machine hunting and sniping at lone characters etc. Finally the shades are there for the same reason with their scout special rules and high ballistic skill. The sorceress is to be deployed with a unit of crossbowmen for protection (I'm not sure on which law to take yet).

again why no lord? and no protection on the sorceress? Bsb looks better. i like everything else though. bummer you dropped the assassin but with that build he really does some damage.

The problem I'm having is that where would I drop the points to include a Dreadlord? I do think I need to add a ward to the sorceress so I may have to ditch a magic banner to get her a ward save. I'm in two minds on an assassin or shades, both have pros and cons and I'm getting opinions on both. If you can tell me where I can fit in a Dreadlord and what to drop I'd be more than grateful