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I know thats not really a question, but it's kinda complex. When The Emperor began The Great Crusade, how many SM legions were with him? Did he just take off from Terra with 20 SM legions at his back? Did He just send legions in mutiple directions, and happen to be with the right one when they fell upon the world of their Primarch? Was it a one at a time kind of thing?

How long were the legions on Terra before the Great Crusade? They say the Dark Angles are the oldest, but what does that mean?

Any insight would be awesome, thank you.

I honestly find the Dark Angles rather obtuse for their age.

Without knowing all the ins-and-outs of this subject, I would tend to agree with Loki.

ToBeWilly wrote:I know thats not really a question, but it's kinda complex. When The Emperor began The Great Crusade, how many SM legions were with him? Did he just take off from Terra with 20 SM legions at his back? Did He just send legions in mutiple directions, and happen to be with the right one when they fell upon the world of their Primarch? Was it a one at a time kind of thing?

How long were the legions on Terra before the Great Crusade? They say the Dark Angles are the oldest, but what does that mean?

Any insight would be awesome, thank you.

There were 20 Legions,each several thousand warriors when the conquest of Terra was over.
Probably he send legions everywhere to speed up conques.
Dark Angels are probably oldest because either because of their Primarch or because of the fact that they were possibly first Space Marines ever(barring Custodians).
I think that Emperor was doing one by one thing when discovering Primarchs.

The Dark Angels are the Oldest as they were the First Legion created by the Emperor. The Lion is also the first Primarch, which is one of the reasons why he thought he should have been made Warmaster.
The Emperor set off with the 20 Legions to reunite mankind and bring the Primarchs back to the fold.

Each Primarch was discovered at different times during the Crusade. Horus was first, Alpharius was last. Upon discovering their Primarch the name of the Legion was possibly changed. Known examples are

Dark Angels: First Legion
World Eaters: Warhouds
Death Guard: Dusk Raiders

If you can find them a great source of material is concerning the early periods of the first founding chapters are the Index Astartes articles or The Horus Heresy Novels.

Lexicanum is also a good place to find out stuff although this can be edited by anyone, so be careful.

Just found Lexicanum. Awesome. Have to try the Index Astartes articles. Thanks!

I also advice getting hold of the old Index Astartes series. They form the bedrock of background knowledge for the Legions. The Horus Heresy novels are building on their foundation, filling and fleshing out the stories. But be warned. The HH series contains some discrepancies to old long established facts*. Prepare to surpised.

*The result of the Council of Nikae is one of the most blatant retcons.

Possible spoilers.

Maybe the emperor knew where his primarchs were, and made sure it was the primarch's specific legion that found them.

The Legions were definitely formed by the start of the Great Crusade. Whether they all went with the Emperor or were split off into Expeditionary Groups, as in the Horus Heresy series, I'm not so sure of. I believe they either had to be split off, or else the Emperor had to be aware of the whereabouts of the Primarchs, as 200 years after the Great Crusade started, all Primarchs had been found, and 200 years seems like an incredibly short time for just one single massive fleet to discover twenty dudes on twenty far-flung planets.

In A Thousand Sons Magnus says he was in communication with the Emperor whilst he was still being created and remained in communication with Him even after the Primarchs were scattered so the Emperor knew about Magnus at least and probably was either aware of the locations of the other Primarchs or, as talked about in A Thousand Sons was able to project Himself into the Empyrean and search for them that way and then direct the fleets.

Mr Nobody wrote:Maybe the emperor knew where his primarchs were, and made sure it was the primarch's specific legion that found them.

yeah, the Emperor made sure he was present when each primarch was discovered, or at least nearby.

Some of the Primarchs met the emperor before meeting their legions(Russ, Konrad, and Vulkan to name 2)

others met their sons before their father.

a couple actually went to meet their father or knew he was coming(Dorn, Sanguinius, and Horus)




one a side note: i think that the DA would have joined Horus in the heresy IF Johnson hadn't been so burned at not being warmaster. prehaps his envy of Horus(and the hope that with the disowning of Horus for treachery he would be made Warmaster) was all that kept him loyal to the Emperor.

Mr Nobody wrote:Maybe the emperor knew where his primarchs were, and made sure it was the primarch's specific legion that found them.

In most cases I think this is true, where the Emperor knew which Primarch he was about to meet he took the specific Legion with him, say the Word Eaters and Angron. But in the case of Lorgar, Magnus the Red and the Thousand Sons were with him and there doesn't seem to be a mention of the Word Bearers.

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, the Emperor made sure he was present when each primarch was discovered, or at least nearby.

Untrue in the case of Alpharius, he was discovered by Horus after he boarded one of his ship. Alpharius was only to meet his father briefly as the crusade was in full swing. But Alpharius was the only one.

From the Lost and the Damned

The initial conquests concentrated in areas where the Primarchs had been hidden. Using his psychic powers the Emperor gradually located and found each of his original creations and united them with the Space Marine Chapters created from their genetic imprints

Hmmm wise guy eh? I'll see you're

ChaosGalvatron wrote:From the Lost and the Damned

The initial conquests concentrated in areas where the Primarchs had been hidden. Using his psychic powers the Emperor gradually located and found each of his original creations and united them with the Space Marine Chapters created from their genetic imprints

and Raise you a

From IA: Alpha Legion
Then at the last instant, with his hands inches from Horus's throat, the man stopped. The two stared at each other for a long moment, before Horus started laughing. He had found the last Primarch.

The new arrival called himself Alpharius

It seems clear that the Emperor took all twenty legions with him when the crusade first started, and that they are numbered in the order in which they were created.

As for the Emperor being about when they were discovered, it makes sense that the Emperor could detect his sons, as he was a very strong psyker, as were most of them. Alpharius seems to have been the exception, but this isn't too surprising, as he was good at stealth and his soul was split between two bodies (so probably didn't stand out as much from the general populace).

they could not have been totally present, some legions could not even fight on their own when the primarch was discovered (fulgrim, i believe) therefor I doubt they left terra with the emprah

perhaps in some cases they left with literally only a squad or so, but the legions were either plain not there or not up to battle ready sizes

as was mentioned he was not always found by the emperor personally, but whoever had found them was most likely pointed in the right directions by emps. in some cases, i believe after he had left the front to return to earth to meet, perhaps it was only one primarch but I believe it was multiple.

also all of the primarchs were very much psy-capable, even if they were unaware, a son of them emperor would give off a psy-light like a beacon,

the Primarchs weren't all psykers.

only Magnus was a true psyker. Sanguinious had some passive abilities, but the rest were "normal" from a psychic viewpoint.


certaintly they would give off a unique psychic signiture that would allow the emperor to find them.



All the legions left Terra with the emperor. they began with a fighting Strength of 10,000 marines each. the reason many didn't function by themselves was that each legion had unique fighting styles.

the Dusk Raiders(Death Guard) were famed for attacking at night so a few of them would combine with another force. that force would attack by day, the Dusk Raiders by night.

special forces if you will.

Konrad certainly had a psychic ability albeit one he couldn't control as did Lorgar according to the latest Horus Heresy installment.

True none had the same power as Magnus or his control over their ability. Corax might also have had some capability that effectively rendered him invisible.

The Emperors Children suffered some form of accident at creation

Index Astartes: Emperors Children
Unlike the other Legions fighting in the Crusade, the Emperor's Children were few in number - an accident had destroyed nearly all of the precious gene-seed and, with the Primarch himself lost, the rebuilding had been a slow process. Fulgrim addressed the two hundred warriors who were then all that the Legion could muster.

Possibly all the Primarchs shared a psychic link between each other as mentioned in

The assault on Earth
by Bill King
(taken from White Dwarf #161)
Each Primarch seemed to be measuring the other, searching for chinks in the armour, for any sign of weakness and lack of resolve. Who knows what they saw there? Perhaps they communicated telepathically, brother Primarch to brother Primarch.

One thing that has always bugged me is if the Primarchs had this connection with there father why did it take so long to find them? If Legion is anything to go by, why doesn't he know about Omegon?

Yes, according to the latest HH book, all twenty were there, but two legions were 'lost' during the crusade - referred to as 'the forgotten and the purged'. The implication is also that the remaining terran Marines from these two defunct legions were folded into the Ultramarines.

I'm quite liking the development of the 'missing primarchs' storylines through hints in the HH books. At the moment it seems that the primarchs were scattered, the legions were created, but when the Emperor found them, two of them were either dead, unwilling to join him, dies during the crusade, or turned their backs on the Imperium during the crusade, at which point the rest of the Primarchs swore an oath to never mention their names.

ArbitorIan wrote:
I'm quite liking the development of the 'missing primarchs' storylines through hints in the HH books.

As am I, I like the way they have left it still down to the imagination. The First Heretic might've given too much away on it though maybe?

ArbitorIan wrote: referred to as 'the forgotten and the purged'

I remember the old 2nd Ed, I think it was, listing of the 1st founding legions where it displayed their original colour schemes, and the missing,one had been deleted from records and the other expunged, or something along those lines. Good to see that they are hinting towards the old days rather than the current where both were simply deleted.

ArbitorIan wrote:but when the Emperor found them, two of them were either dead, unwilling to join him, dies during the crusade, or turned their backs on the Imperium during the crusade

Could be a good reason why the Emperor effectively kidnapped Angron rather than left him to die