Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, I have a large Eldar army. I'm looking for some ideas as I want to play Eldar in the upcoming RTT.

Fortuneseer w/ both runes
10 Warlocks w/ embolden x2, enhance
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

6 Harlies w/ kisses x6 -> Falcon

10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser

10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser

Falcon w/ stones, holofield, shuricannon x2

3 Warwalkers w/ shuricannon x2

1 Wraithlord w/ scatterlaser, shuricannon

The idea is to let the Wraithlord accompany the Warwalkers in order to form a strong shooting base.
Harlies will eventually take on isolated units or units far back in the enemy's deployment zone.

[The old codex bothers me a bit.] Thoughts?

The list looks really good, my only problem is that the Wraithlord is out of place. You want your Walkers to be infiltrating, and if they don't you will be walking them up the field slowly. I think the rest of your list will just out-run them.

I don't know much about RTT, but if there are objective games, you might have issues at 2k points with only 2 troop choices.

What about the old codex bothers you?

Well, I never played this specific list. The HS choices are a bit unusual.
The idea is that the WL provides some protection for the Warwalkers. I'll not let them outflank. The WL also complements the Walkers in terms of weapons.

The RTT will have missions with objectives. But I have good experience with 2 troop choices in mech Eldar at the 1750 pt level. So I don't see problems here. Avengers will eventually disembark for shooting and then reembark one turn later if necessary.

The codex is rather old now. One issue is that if you have about 30 to 50 pts left (just hypothetical), there are not very many choices what to do with them. Moreover, I like Vypers (w/ shuricannon, scatterlaser) but 70 pts for an open topped skimmer is too much.

If you are happy with 2 Troop choices then it should be fine.

I play 3 Troops at 1500 points. But that's just me.

The list seems very strong, I wouldn't change anything other that the troops if I were to run it.

Well, I'll leave the troops as they are.

The Serpents of the DA have scatterlasers, while the other tanks have shuricannons. In this way, the Serpents of the DA can operate behind the other tanks. This will give the troops some more protection (cover saves for their Serpents as they should be obscured).

OK. THis list looks pretty good, except for the fact that the walkers and wraithlord are armed with shuriken cannons. ALWAYS get scatter lasers, especially when ypou don't plan on outflanking to get closer. They are just better in every way possible. They have more shots and more range. WHich is all you're looking for with that weaponry.

Also, ONLY having fire dragons that can pop high AV is a little risky if your opponent takes more than two heavy tanks.

The Warlocks can also kill off big tanks. If they can be caught. With fleet it should be ok.

What do the Harlies bring to this list? You already have a CC element in your list. Seeing as how many pts you pay for that rather fragile unit I dont see why youd want to invest another 300 pts in aother fragile CC unit.
Get a DAVU squad instead and use the saved pts to get Scatters on your WWs instead.
Dual Cannons on a Falcon is pretty crap aswell, when will you ever get to use all three? Better to invest the pts so you can have an EML or Bl to accompany your Pulse Laser

Seems to be a very strong army - Can't really find much of a weakness.

Only concern I can think of (and you will prob know this better then me if you've played with a similar army before) would be a mec heavy army.

You may be playing a game of chance here, because if they pop your two fire dragon serpents early on (unlikely, but certainly within the realm of possibility) the 5 man squads aren't going to get in range before they're killed.

Of course you'll still have your falcon and HQ squad, so even then you might not have a problem... Just something to consider.

Glad I won't be in the tournament against you, I'm not sure either of my usual 'Nids/Eldar armies would stand up to that army. Definitely built to win.

Well, good comments.

OK. THis list looks pretty good, except for the fact that the walkers and wraithlord are armed with shuriken cannons. ALWAYS get scatter lasers,

That's a good point. I thought about it. I could arm the Warwalkers with scatterlasers by dropping one Warlock (the list is less than 2000 pts so far).

so, ONLY having fire dragons that can pop high AV is a little risky if your opponent takes more than two heavy tanks.

I'll expect three Tyranid armies and not so much heavy shooting (other than Tau).

What do the Harlies bring to this list?

First, I like Harlies. Second, I'll take them to take on isolated units if any. Otherwise, I'll let them charge whatever will be suitable.

Dual Cannons on a Falcon is pretty crap aswell, when will you ever get to use all three? Better to invest the pts so you can have an EML or Bl to accompany your Pulse Laser

I know. But they make the Falcon less expensive. The Falcon will go close and personal in order to deliver the Harlies. So range will not be an issue.

Only concern I can think of (and you will prob know this better then me if you've played with a similar army before) would be a mec heavy army.

Side shots will bring down tanks with a Rhino chassis like Preds and Vindis. Shouldn't be a problem. I did it quite often.

ou may be playing a game of chance here, because if they pop your two fire dragon serpents early on (unlikely, but certainly within the realm of possibility) the 5 man squads aren't going to get in range before they're killed.

Unlikely, as you said.

Glad I won't be in the tournament against you, I'm not sure either of my usual 'Nids/Eldar armies would stand up to that army. Definitely built to win.

Nids will definitely have a problem with this list. I playtested a list like this at the 1750 pt level against one of my Buddys, strong player. But his loss was frustrating.

Holofields is only really useful at range where there are no melta weapons nearby. As I see it you are paying 300pts for a six man T3 unit with a 5++ save. And on top of everything it suffers from the same grave problem as all CC units in the eldar codex do (except the Jetseers) namely that the Serpent nor the Falcon are assault Vehicles.

Just an example, you somehow manages to get the charge on a plain old Tac squad. Your Harlies will then cause 4 unsaved wounds and take 1.5 unsaved wounds in return. You are now down to 4.5 Harlies, if the tacticals manages to break away they will then rapid fire you killing ~3.5 harlies.
This is also against one of the best possible targets you can find for the Harlies...

In fact, the good old combo Falcon + Harlies is not as effective as in the 4th ed.
I hope GW can find some solution to this in the new codex (whenever it will come out).

My policy is to fill all Elite and HS slots. So if I take out the Falcon and Harlies, I could take another unit of Warwalkers or a Nightspinner and some Scorpions. Thoughts?

Ok... first of all the harlies would cause 5 wounds on the tacs. I myself are a huge fan of harlies, and usually there is something more elite than a tac squad they can get to to rend to pieces, esp. when they have a falcon to maneuver them.

In fact, full Tactical squad would be a concern if charged by Harlies.
First, I would whittle them down a bit before I would let the Harlies charge them.
But there might be better targets out there like Devastators as they usually appear in groups of 5 to 8 Marines.

rivers64 wrote:Ok... first of all the harlies would cause 5 wounds on the tacs. I myself are a huge fan of harlies, and usually there is something more elite than a tac squad they can get to to rend to pieces, esp. when they have a falcon to maneuver them.

No, you are very much incorrect.
6 harlies will have 24 attacks in total, 16 of those will hit. Of those 16 hits 2.666 will rend and 2.666 will cause a normal wounds for a total of 3.556 unsaved wounds which I (rather sloppily)rounded up to 4...

tedurur wrote:

rivers64 wrote:Ok... first of all the harlies would cause 5 wounds on the tacs. I myself are a huge fan of harlies, and usually there is something more elite than a tac squad they can get to to rend to pieces, esp. when they have a falcon to maneuver them.

No, you are very much incorrect.
6 harlies will have 24 attacks in total, 16 of those will hit. Of those 16 hits 2.666 will rend and 2.666 will cause a normal wounds for a total of 3.556 unsaved wounds which I (rather sloppily)rounded up to 4...

This would mean that 6 Marines hit back. Suppose the Serg has a power weapon or a chain sword.
Then they will have 8 attacks. Hitting on 4+ gives 4 hits and wounding on 3+ gives 4*2/3=8/3, approx. 3 wounds. The Harlies would save 1 of them so that there a 4 Harlies left.
Frankly, I'd avoid this kind of eventually prolonged melee.

Ok... On the contrary you, my friend are incorrect and have obviously not taken advanced math. Rending gets rolled on the to hit so 1/6 of 24 will be rending, thats 4 right there. THEN, not including the 4 rending, you get 12 hits, which, with furious charge, wounds on 4's so that's 6 wounds. In fact, with armor thats 2 more dead on top of rending
All this for a grand total of 6 marines.

rivers64 wrote:Ok... On the contrary you, my friend are incorrect and have obviously not taken advanced math. Rending gets rolled on the to hit so 1/6 of 24 will be rending, thats 4 right there. THEN, not including the 4 rending, you get 12 hits, which, with furious charge, wounds on 4's so that's 6 wounds. In fact, with armor thats 2 more dead on top of rending
All this for a grand total of 6 marines.

ROFLMAO, yeah this is indeed very advanced math,
you on the other hand have my friend have not read the 5th ed BRB, rending is caused on the to wound roll not on the to hit roll as it was in 4ed.
Forgot about the FC on my second calc, they get 4.4 unsaved with FC

@rivers64: Not sure which Rending rules you are using, but the rending gets rolled on the to wound roll, not the to hit roll.

Page 42: "If a model armed with a rending close combat weapon rolls a 6 on any of his rolls to wound in close combat, the opponent automatically suffers a wound, regardless of its toughness. These wounds count as wounds from a power weapon."

Not really a fan of the list, I'll be honest. You do indeed have PILES of S6, but it's all very short range and high AP. At the very least bump the S Cannons up to Scatters and give yourself another 12" and extra shot... it'll do wonders.

The falcon loadout was great in 4th, not now. With that config you basically have 307 pts of a tank that as it closes range will be shook the whole time, can move more then 6" or it forfeits it's extra 6 s6 shots, and is full of T3 5++ pricey elites that MAY hurt a min squad unit if they get the charge but will die horrifically to any form of shooting or CC in return. For 307 pts there is MUCH better configs, hell even Falcon w/ holo + guideseer + 5 DA is only 305 pts. That counts as scoring and fires 3 48" s8 TL shots.

Seer council - You have 520 points of meh. Yes it is 33 attacks on the charge hit on 3+ wound on 2+, but it is still slow and is tarpitable. If you are in hood/relic range you're going to going to have issues getting fortune off and that turns you into just a 4+ invul. My suggestion would be a second enhance here to prevent that bad swarm fire save and take Eldrad. This will allow you to get a guide off on the Warwalkers first turn, fortune on the serpent, and fortune on the squad (just incase you get popped) then Full Out up the field. Eldrad will also give you the benefit of rearranging if you go first turn which will help a firebase setup, plus it'll be harder for the opponent to single out your fortune lifeline in CC with your seer council.

Wraithlord - There is no reason to take a wraithlord with Scattie and Shurican. If they are in a 24" range you should be moving in for the flamer hits. If you want a wraithlord and firebase protection/AT sponge just go with Swordlord.

All this being said I would suggest (keeping in theme)...

Eldrad
9 Warlocks 2x Enhance, 2x Embolden
Serpent w/ Scatter Laser

2x 5 Dragons + Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser

10 DA, Exarch w/ Dual ASC + Bladestorm
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser

5 DA
Wave Serpent w/ EML

3x Warwalker with Dual Scatters

5 DA + Farseer w/ Guide
Falcon w/ EML, Holo

Wraithlord with Sword and Dual Flamers

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I have a large Eldar army. I'm looking for some ideas as I want to play Eldar in the upcoming RTT.

Fortuneseer w/ both runes
10 Warlocks w/ embolden x2, enhance
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

6 Harlies w/ kisses x6 -> Falcon

10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser

10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser

Falcon w/ stones, holofield, shuricannon x2

3 Warwalkers w/ shuricannon x2

1 Wraithlord w/ scatterlaser, shuricannon

The idea is to let the Wraithlord accompany the Warwalkers in order to form a strong shooting base.
Harlies will eventually take on isolated units or units far back in the enemy's deployment zone.

[The old codex bothers me a bit.] Thoughts?

I'm going to have to go with Blue Dagger on this one. I expect a lot more targets and a lot more threat from your lists usually, Wuestenfux. Normally I'd expect much more optimized squads/vehicles as well. At 1500, if you already bring quite a few serpents/falcons/prisms, a Walker Squadron with shuricannons rocks as you can outflank without losing threat on the board T1. Shuri-Walkers are going to be very very easy to kill and/or avoid their shooting. Scatterlasers on the walkers if not outflanking is too important to ignore. Again the range in this list is too much like sisters of battle for me.

Also, on the topic of range, 2x FD squads will be enough to take on all but the spammiest 2k lists of AV13+, however, the range of your army requires you to RELY on Fire Dragons. That means a smart opponent can neuter 2 serpents and then outrange you. Requiring you to charge a large, expensive squad of warlocks into their army. Without the range of a couple of EML/BL in this list, I see it as a huge weakness. Fire dragons CAN and WILL take out targets, and I'm not saying they won't. However, reliance upon them is a weakness.

As far as the Falcon goes, I would also recommend a DAVU here. The seer council does what you want the harlies to do. Also, you are putting twice as many points inside it than a DAVU would cost. That would allow you to make it a real threat with a EML or BL. The Harlies, while you and I both agree they rock, just don't fit this list. Counter-assault is a competitive slot in Eldar mech lists. There's just not too much points left over for that type of unit and you've already spent it on a full seer council.

The Wraithlord, while seeming a bit odd at first, is actually decent if you plan on walking the walkers up the middle he can counterassault/fire with them, but he needs EML/BL or EML/Sword IMO. BS4 is rare in our codex with heavy weapons, wasting it on shuri/scatters is sad. Otherwise, take him out and try to fit in another serpent. With the dual dragon squads, I don't think you need BLs all over the place. EMLs are fine since you already have AV14 power.

Weaknesses: Number of targets at 2k is similar to most 1750-1850 lists. Range. Reliance on Dragons for anything outside of 24" range. Crippling serpents cripples this list against all other mech lists.
Strengths: Number of shots inside 24", Seer Council will obliterate most hard targets that rely on toughness or armor.

the list does seem very light on troops. Even with the awesomeness that are Eldar Wave Serpents, only having 2 troops at 2000 points is asking for trouble in objective games.

I see what your plan is with the Falcon / Harlies, but I agree that that combo is past its prime. 262 points will buy you a wave serpent with bright lances, as well as 10 storm guardians w/ 2 flamers and a destructor lock. You already have plenty of DA fire power. Adding some mobile flamers into your list can give you more options while still being somewhat redundant with Avengers.

I've gotten somewhat used to seeing Serpent Council's in your lists, and I've supposed you've heard mine and other's concern about them plenty of times. I just worry about a highly expensive close combat squad, which can be forced to walk and is slightly more durable then a tactical space marine squad to small arms fire (assuming fortune doesn't get blocked). They also have the problem of not being able to assault out of their serpent, and when we are dealing with an investment as epic as a full 10 man council... that can really hurt your list. I would either replace them for a biker council, or Banshees. While Banshees are certainly inferior in close combat to a council, they are considerably cheaper (192 points for a tooled squad) and they can engage targets that your small arms fire has trouble with, such as 3+ fnp units.

Couple of suggestions - Upgrade the WL -

2 Flamers w BL & EML - It will be a target but it will give you some much needed pop vs vehicles at range.

Personnally lose the harlies and Falcon. I would rather have 1 Prism that sits back and masks the walkers from enemy fire or a squad of Warp Spiders to drop the load on the opponent.

Other thought would be to get a unit of 5+ pathfinders.
- They can sit on an objective.
- Good MC and Termie killers.
- Seems incongruous to the rest of the list and your opponent can make mistakes and focus on them.

I like Harlies myself they just seem a bit out of place, they way you describe you want to run them leaves them out in the open for if they kill the unit you set them on or, I just don't see any support for them.

The WL just seems out of place and not having a lock around it makes me nervous as you can approximate 1 turn out of the game where he'll be sitting doing nothing.

I've just come to love Fire Prisms for their versatility anti tank anti horde anti meq base they are cheaper than Falcons as well and I've always got more bang for the buck of of a Prism vs. a Falcon in 5th.

I would break the seer council up into two squads of 5 one lead by a Fortune seer and one by Eldrad. I would run 3 troops personally as well but if your comfortable w/ 2 I'd run something a bit more similar to this.

Eldrad
5 Warlocks, Enhance & Embolden
Wave Serpent / TL - S Cannons

Farseer Fortune
5 Warlocks, Enhance & Embolden
Wave Serpent / TL - S Cannons

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent / TL - S Cannons

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent / TL - S Cannons

10 DA Exarch w/ 2 Catapults & Blade Storm
Wave Serpent / TL - S Cannons

10 DA Exarch w/ 2 Catapults & Blade Storm
Wave Serpent / TL - S Cannons

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

There are 6 points left over so if you wanted to give a out two Singing Spears for a bit of ranged AT you could do that too.

Well, I see the controversy given by Falcon plus Harlies.
Here is a dakka variant of the original list (new units in italics):

Fortuneseer w/ both runes
10 Warlocks w/ embolden x2, enhance
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ stones, shuricannon

10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser

10 Dire Avengers w/ bladestorm
Serpent w/ stones, scatterlaser

2 Vypers w/ scatterlaser, shuricannon

3 Warwalkers w/ scatterlaser x2

3 Warwalkers w/ shuricannon x2

1 Wraithlord w/ scatterlaser, shuricannon

Lots of S6 shots at medium range. Thoughts?

All you hatin on the harlies naawww harlies win games. Throw 10 in a serpent and ram that mofo down your oponents throat, tank shock everything and then drop your squad on the retreating unit anniahlate them then consolidate back to the serpent so they can get in next turn. Ten harlies on the charge is what? 41 attacks 8 that can be rending and 5 that are power weapons if you have a troupe master. They rack up KP's like nobodies business.

I think a unit of warlocks without at least one singing spear and at least one destructor is a big flaw.

I still can't quite get over just 2 troop choices at 2000pts. Unless you know for sure the missions favor transports as contesting units. I've run into a lot of missions lately that kill that particular eldar trick.

I think a single 5 man ranger unit might do well as your 3rd troop choice, though if you have 3 nids players... those'll get killed quick.

I would not bring vipers, I've never seem them do much unless you hide them the entire game. And contest at the end.

What's your strategy against the a missile launcher heavy foot based space wolf list?