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Here is the list, I am pretty set in to the weapon configs and build but i am thinking of a few tweaks I could do but need help on ruling out and deciding on them.
Any help Is appreciated and it is a bit long. If you think it it too long pick one of the ideas to help on (there are 3 with multiple options) I am gearing it for an all comers.

Commander -Centurion
Tau Shas’el with Plasma Rifle, cyclic ion blaster, stimulant injector , Multitracker,
Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones
130pts

================================
Tau Battlesuit Team -Helios
2 Battlesuits with plasma rifle and fusion blaster,multitracker
124pts (62 each)

Tau Battlesuit Team -Hellfire
2 Battlesuits with missile pods and twin linked flamers
86pts (43 each)

================================
(X3) 6 man Fire warrior Team, with shas'ul, Bonding knife
Devilfish with Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger
615pts (205 each)

================================
Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard),target lock, Multitracker,
Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger
190pts

HammerHead with Ion Cannon, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard),target lock, Multitracker,
Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger
155pts

2 man Broadside Team with Targeting array.
Leader, hard wired target lock, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones
200pts

So the tweaks I was thinking about was:
Idea 1:

A: Remove the 'ul and bonding knife on FW teams for 45pts and get my 3rd hellfire Crisis suit (But no Bondknife for team).

B: Remove the 'ul and BK on FW teams and upgrade the Ionhead to a Railhead and use the spare 10 pts for BK on Broadsides and something else

C: Drop 1 FW team (keep the Devilfish), Drop 'ul and bonding knife on remaining FW teams, with the free 105pts spend 96pts on 8 Pathfinders. (Or 7 with 'ul and Bonding knife for 99pts)) - The remaining 9 or 6pts can be spent on BK for Broadsides or Blacksun filters.

D: Your better Idea here.
--------------------------------

Idea 2:
Drop the IonHead for spare 155pts

A: Spent on New Helios suit with Leader, Bonding Knife, HW drone controller+ 1 Shield Drone and New Hellfire suit with Leader, Bonding Knife, HW drone controller+ 1 Shield Drone. No left over points

B: Spent on Broadside, Target array/ASS, Leader, 1 shield drone. The remaining 50pts can be spent on:
I) Bonding Knife on Broadside team 1, 3rd hellfire suit.
II)Bonding Knife on Broadside team 1 and re upgrading the 3 FW teams to 'ul+BK if any of Idea 1 is taken.
III) BK on Broadside team 1 and The 'Distraction' suit. XV8 TL flamer + Burst cannon. (Don't like this idea -not enough points to make a good distraction in this option need 58pts not 50)

C: Spent on Deathrain team. 3 XV8 with TL Missile Pod + Target Lock with Team Leader and Bonding Knife.

D: Spent on a Skyray with Burst cannons, Disruption Pods, Target Array and Multitracker for 155pts.

E: Your better Idea here.
--------------------------------

Idea 3:

Drop Ion head and 'ul and BK on FW for 200pts.

A: Spent on 2nd Broadside team (same layout as first).

B: Spent on DF (same layout as others) and 5 Pathfinders.

C: Your better Idea here.

Get a trygon

I hate you. lol.

Exchange the ion head for a sky ray then you get 2 ml and you can keep the 3 firewarrior teams. They are good together to form tank walls and mass str5 ap5 shots. Take the bonding knifes on them. You have to think about the logistics. Theres only 6 fire warriors. If they get shot at theres a good chance they'll be rendered fairly useless after. I've never found the bonding knife to be really helpful with such a small squad but thats me. You should find some points to get shield drones for your mesme teams and make your monat into a mesme as well to make them more resilient otherwise the most feared part of your army (besides the broadsides and hammerhead) are going to be fairly easy to get rid of especially by instant death. Also i'm not sure if smart missile systems are that helpful on the hammerheads as they are usually far away from the enemy. I know its a precaution thing but 20 points is a lot for 4 str5ap5 weapons that won't be used most of the time even if they are no line of sight. Flechettes don't help very much unless your facing infiltrating tank hunting units that are weak. Its another one of those precaution things that can't be used every game.

I would be inclined to bump up the ionhead to a railgun and drop the flamers from the battlesuits. I've never been fond of the idea of assault crisis suits and I think that team would be better off as deathrains.

You could also drop 1 or 2 of the devilfish for more FWs or a Stealth team or something.

I like 3.a. I think the extra broadsides would help, as you get 1 less MEQ shot than an ion cannon, but it is TL and they are s10 AP1.

I feel kind of stupid posting here because you are the genius who always helps me iron out my lists

daemon wrote:Exchange the ion head for a sky ray then you get 2 ml and you can keep the 3 firewarrior teams. They are good together to form tank walls and mass str5 ap5 shots. Take the bonding knifes on them. You have to think about the logistics. Theres only 6 fire warriors. If they get shot at theres a good chance they'll be rendered fairly useless after. I've never found the bonding knife to be really helpful with such a small squad but thats me. You should find some points to get shield drones for your mesme teams and make your monat into a mesme as well to make them more resilient otherwise the most feared part of your army (besides the broadsides and hammerhead) are going to be fairly easy to get rid of especially by instant death. Also i'm not sure if smart missile systems are that helpful on the hammerheads as they are usually far away from the enemy. I know its a precaution thing but 20 points is a lot for 4 str5ap5 weapons that won't be used most of the time even if they are no line of sight. Flechettes don't help very much unless your facing infiltrating tank hunting units that are weak. Its another one of those precaution things that can't be used every game.

I was thinking along the lines of, 4 of them die, I fail the test and they run off the objective. When they rally there will only be 1 or 2 of them and they will either not do any good - die or something else in on that objective and they have no chance in hell of pushing them.
In most of my games they have never left the DF.

I also find that the SMS are hugely effective. A lot of opponents like to get up close and they have never done me wrong. The Fleches however I am thrown on as Last game I played against Tyranids and Blood Ravens they won the game for me. (killed off the last thing able to hurt them) But I am looking into removing them for Shield drones.

The skyray point I do like they offer me 2ML shots and anti tank when ever I need it.

Thank you for the input though.

Flinty wrote:I would be inclined to bump up the ionhead to a railgun and drop the flamers from the battlesuits. I've never been fond of the idea of assault crisis suits and I think that team would be better off as deathrains.

You could also drop 1 or 2 of the devilfish for more FWs or a Stealth team or something.

I am pretty set into my weapon loadouts they work very well for me. The Flamers do me a lot of justice as a mobile transport killer with flamers for defence- they are not effective as death rains for that purpose but they do put a hurtin on MEQS and Infantry when they get up close. I do not use them as most people who deepstrike them in, hit a tank in the back then die next turn. There are more effective ways to use them.

The second point I rather the Devilfish over FWs. They make the game easier for me to win, as a mobile tank hunter, small squad killer and as a protective wall. When they blow up they leave some good cover for my Suits too.

stompydakka wrote:I like 3.a. I think the extra broadsides would help, as you get 1 less MEQ shot than an ion cannon, but it is TL and they are s10 AP1.

I feel kind of stupid posting here because you are the genius who always helps me iron out my lists

I am no genius I just gear the lists lol. And all help is appreciated.
I liked the idea of 3.a but I have some concerns with it.
It increases my LOS arc, my Anti tank arsenal and my ability to always get the best shot on a target more wounds then the HH though as 1 shot could potentially kill it.
But what It lacks is Bonding knife. Is not mobile, I lose a cover wall and it is at the mercy of blast templates and high fire which could force me to fail saves.

Also I think of the Ion as a Transport killer instead of anti MEQ.

Idea 3, option c.

Since the FWs are delicate (really fragile) at 6 each, they'll need their BKs. A crucial point has troops are needed to win.

a. Taking out the IonHead is good as its AP3 is largely moot in 5e's Cover Save's for All! environment. Add a b-side steam. How can more railguns be a *bad* idea?

b. PFs in exchange for FWs. Hmm. It's debatable. I think you might just leave them as FireWarriors as having only 2 min Troops is pretty thin for 1500, and it ought to leave you the points for FW Bonding, yes?

The Ionhead is really only the 'weak' part of your list. Idea 3, option c is a small tweak, allowing you to have your familiar list mostly intact, with the add fun of extra railguns.

How's that?

Brothererekose wrote:Idea 3, option c.

Since the FWs are delicate (really fragile) at 6 each, they'll need their BKs. A crucial point has troops are needed to win.

a. Taking out the IonHead is good as its AP3 is largely moot in 5e's Cover Save's for All! environment. Add a b-side steam. How can more railguns be a *bad* idea?

b. PFs in exchange for FWs. Hmm. It's debatable. I think you might just leave them as FireWarriors as having only 2 min Troops is pretty thin for 1500, and it ought to leave you the points for FW Bonding, yes?

The Ionhead is really only the 'weak' part of your list. Idea 3, option c is a small tweak, allowing you to have your familiar list mostly intact, with the add fun of extra railguns.

How's that?

The PF idea was a shot the dark, I cant really seem myself dumping a scoring unit for them as if I lost one in game that would leave me only the ability to lose or draw in objective games if I cant push the opponent of theirs.

The broadside team Is a favoured Idea though my only problem is that to get it I need to sacrifice the the 'uls and BKs on all 3 FW teams.
I suppose I can go for Idea 2 Option B-I though If I do not want to sac the 'ul and BK but it only nets me 1 Broadside instead of 2.
But as mentioned it is less mobile and does not give a cover for other units. But I have 3 transports and 1 HH after it so I suppose I have enough

Interesting list.

I think 600 pts is a bit much to spend on the transports and fire warriors, as they are not going to hurt anyone really.

Though clearly mech works for you, I would drop one fish/ fire warrior unit and use the points to boost your suit numbers, or take another railhead.

All this of course depends on how you like to play. I prefer lots of firewarriors on the table... unless its Orks (in which case I mech up and pray to the dice gods).

troy_tempest wrote:Interesting list.

I think 600 pts is a bit much to spend on the transports and fire warriors, as they are not going to hurt anyone really.

Though clearly mech works for you, I would drop one fish/ fire warrior unit and use the points to boost your suit numbers, or take another railhead.

All this of course depends on how you like to play. I prefer lots of firewarriors on the table... unless its Orks (in which case I mech up and pray to the dice gods).

I only have to drop the ul and BK on the FW teams to turn my ionhead into a railgun which seems a good choice atm.

Personally I spent the points as I think of them as scoring units only. In a 4 objective marker game at best I can control 3 instead of 2 which gives me a much higher chance of winning. In 2 objective games I can place 2 of my DF (beginning or end game) in a arrow shape (^) -declare landing and unload my 2 FW units onto the objective last turn to gain complete LOS from 3 out of 4 directions and 1 FW unit a tiny but in front of the other to gain that all important cover save for the unit holding the objective).
The 3rd FW team would go to contest/controll the 2nd objective. Or depending on the movement of the army I would reverse that the arrow on their objective and 1 FW team on my own with the hellfire team.

I have a good reason for having most my units weapon and loadouts other then the Ion Cannon and the Leader/BK on the FW units lol.

my two cents. Drop the 3rd firewarrior squad and devilfish, and also drop the leader upgrades from the two remaining. keep the 6 man squads in the fish, hold them in reserve and only use them to capture objectives. In a 1500 game you're using far too many points on troops. No point in the bonding knives either as you dont have to disembark them to capture objectives.

I'd also drop the target lock on the hammerhead and make it a railhead. (no point in the target lock really, you will hardly ever be able to use it). Drop the flechette as well, its sounds good on paper but it really isnt worth the points as pretty much the only things assaulting something like a hammerhead are units that laugh at the tickling launchers. Drop them on the devilfish too.

220 points is what you should have now. Beef up and add more suits and you should be rocking now.

hivefleetmonolith wrote:my two cents. Drop the 3rd firewarrior squad and devilfish, and also drop the leader upgrades from the two remaining. keep the 6 man squads in the fish, hold them in reserve and only use them to capture objectives. In a 1500 game you're using far too many points on troops. No point in the bonding knives either as you dont have to disembark them to capture objectives.

I'd also drop the target lock on the hammerhead and make it a railhead. (no point in the target lock really, you will hardly ever be able to use it). Drop the flechette as well, its sounds good on paper but it really isnt worth the points as pretty much the only things assaulting something like a hammerhead are units that laugh at the tickling launchers. Drop them on the devilfish too.

220 points is what you should have now. Beef up and add more suits and you should be rocking now.

I like this advice.

But I do have to disagree with the Target Lock advice, I have found both my HHs mostly have something to fire at on turn 2 or 3 and in a few cases has saved my suits from death.
My troop choice is high in points and I could get something else for them but I do have a good reasoning for them and I used to run a list of 2 and found it is not as effective for my play style. (I also used to run 1 FW and 1 Kroot - that done me horribly yet people love that config)

syanticraven wrote:

But I do have to disagree with the Target Lock advice, I have found both my HHs mostly have something to fire at on turn 2 or 3 and in a few cases has saved my suits from death.
My troop choice is high in points and I could get something else for them but I do have a good reasoning for them and I used to run a list of 2 and found it is not as effective for my play style. (I also used to run 1 FW and 1 Kroot - that done me horribly yet people love that config)

Well if you really insist on the troops then atleast drop the flechettes on their fishes and the leader upgrades. If you do this to them and the hammerheads then you should have a spare.... 95 points? Which is plenty to both make that ionhead a railhead and add another suit to that meager 2 man squad and perhaps give it a shield or gun drone.

I know you'll be attaching the commander to one of the suit groups which is good cause he has the drones. But the other 2 man group, well they're just so vulnerable. I mean even if you're playing an ork guy he's bound to have a couple of deffcopters or space wolves with their long fangs. If you dont' have some drones to eat the missiles then you've just wasted about 100 points. Actually for the points you just saved on the railhead and troops you could add a 3rd hellfire suit and a shield drone (or a 2nd shield drone if you drop the target locks on the hammerheads like I suggested earlier).

p.s. you'd have to leave off a flamer on the 3rd hellfire for the drone controller but its probably not that big a deal.

hivefleetmonolith wrote:

syanticraven wrote:

But I do have to disagree with the Target Lock advice, I have found both my HHs mostly have something to fire at on turn 2 or 3 and in a few cases has saved my suits from death.
My troop choice is high in points and I could get something else for them but I do have a good reasoning for them and I used to run a list of 2 and found it is not as effective for my play style. (I also used to run 1 FW and 1 Kroot - that done me horribly yet people love that config)

Well if you really insist on the troops then atleast drop the flechettes on their fishes and the leader upgrades. If you do this to them and the hammerheads then you should have a spare.... 95 points? Which is plenty to both make that ionhead a railhead and add another suit to that meager 2 man squad and perhaps give it a shield or gun drone.

I know you'll be attaching the commander to one of the suit groups which is good cause he has the drones. But the other 2 man group, well they're just so vulnerable. I mean even if you're playing an ork guy he's bound to have a couple of deffcopters or space wolves with their long fangs. If you dont' have some drones to eat the missiles then you've just wasted about 100 points. Actually for the points you just saved on the railhead and troops you could add a 3rd hellfire suit and a shield drone (or a 2nd shield drone if you drop the target locks on the hammerheads like I suggested earlier).

p.s. you'd have to leave off a flamer on the 3rd hellfire for the drone controller but its probably not that big a deal.

I tend to use my helios unit and Commander as a team. In the movement phase they move out of coherency fire at different units then jet pack back into coherency. (unless they are firing at the same unit)

It is a plan of mines with the other ideas. I found my fletchs seem to work best against SM but instead of tyranids though (Which is pretty damn odd)
The Fw team downgrades net me 45pts, 35pts can be spent to upgrade the Ion to a railhead. 10pts spare (okay I have done this and it is finalised)

Getting rid of the fletchs would get me a total of 50pts plus the 10pts spare is 60pts but I could not see a use for it that I would take. I could get a Hellfire, leader+BK for 53pts or XV8 Flamer+ Missile Pod + DC + Shield drone for 56pts but then kill the shield drone and 1 suit and my other 2 suits could walk off the field. I would like to keep my units in 2s unless I can afford to Bonding knife them. They are to expensive to have walk off the field. I like the 1st option because it leaves points to BK my Broadsides. even though it lacks the SD

I am not sold on the removing of the Target locks though. That would change how I use my HHs as MT would then be useless and I would never choose the SMS shots over the railgun (solid or blast) shot so downgrading them to Bursts would be the cheapest option. It would save me 25pts each thought. But I cant justify the gain for the loss so far.

I could use the spare 50pts for Shield drones and Leader, BK on hellfires and BK on Broadsides

(Btw if Im sounding like a dick here I do apologise I just really like to walk through my ideas with people instead of just, oh that sounds good *done*.)

Edit: I forgot to mention a large tactic of mines which makes the decision on me harder. I use my Warfish for Assault blocking. It can also snipe - Tank shock a squad is also a viable thing.

no you dont sound like a dick at all! The whole point of me posting was just to toss ideas back and forth with ya. You do play a tad differently than I would but that's probably cause I usually do 2500 games. Never though about the whole units of two thing for smaller games. Sounds like your last post has some great ideas in it, let me know how it plays.