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Help please.

Demon Prince = 520 ???
not really sure what to do for him.
MoT, level 4 wizard, bloodcurdling roar, 3rd eye of Tzeentch (not sure if I need 4 levels or the 3rd eye or just one of them)

Exalted Hero = 189 ???
BSB, MoT, bronze armor, favor of the gods, talisman of protection, shield, and a weapon either halberd or magic weapon.

18x Warriors = 338 or 24xWarriors = 434
shields, command and MoT

18x Warriors = 338 or 12xWarriors = 252
shields, command and MoT w/ MoK, extra hand weapon or halberds, command

40x Marauders = 250
GW, MoK, command

5x Marauder Horsemen = 111
flails, MoK, musician

5x Marauder Horsemen = 111
flails, MoK, musician

5x warhounds = 30

5x warhounds = 30

10x Chaos Knights = 510
command, blasted standard, and MoT

Warshrine = 130

Total = 2557

Not really sure what point total I am looking to reach either. The list is based on my theme in the general background section. It is also using the contents from 2 battalions, 2 boxes of marauder horsemen, demon prince, and an extra box of warriors. I have no idea about 8th edition or WoC, so I can use all the help you can give. Thanks.

Hello? Anyone? Can anyone give me some pointers? Thanks.

No love for Boogey, eh?

First Thought: Dammit, you guys are making me feel like less of a special snowflake for running a DP! If this fad of DP not sucking catches on I'll have to swap down to a fighty chaos lord again (though I'm not thinking that'll work any better in 8th edition).

Second Thought: You should make this 2500 even. Hell, here's my whack at that ...

L: Demon Prince - MoT, level 3, third eye, roar = 480

H: Exalted Hero - MoT, BSB, bronze armor, talisman of endurance, favor, shield = 200

C: 18 Warriors - MoT, full command, shields = 338
C: 18 Warriors - MoK, standard, musician, halberds = 336
C: 40 Marauders - MoK, standard, musician, great weapons = 242
C: 5 Horsemen - MoK, musician, flails = 111
C: 5 Horsemen - MoK, musician, flails = 111
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 10 Knights - MoT, blasted standard, standard, musician = 490

R: Warshrine = 130
-------
2498

Trim-trim here, snip-snip there. Essentially cut some command models, the 4th level on the DP (he's +4 to cast and most likely using the enemy spells), and slapped the BSB around a little. That knight unit is pretty uber, here's hoping it works for ya!

Third Thought: With a few exceptions (DP, deeper combat units, huge knights) this feels like a 7th edition list, or at least the flail horsemen are reminiscent of last Spring. I'd give it (or a version of this 2500 pointer anyway) a shot and see how you like it. It should do well, it certainly has a lot of 8th edition unit builds going on, but with some less-auto things too.

- Salvage

Thanks Boss.

What does the talisman of endurance do?

Do you think 24 warriors w/ MoT is too many? Will they be too much of a target? Or is 12 warriors w/ MoK just not enough?

boogeyman wrote:What does the talisman of endurance do?

LRB pg.175

... and when combined with MoT that becomes a sexy 4+ save, hence why everybody takes it. That was another 7th edition bit about your list, not too much advantage taken of the new common items (which IMO are pretty damn awesome ... but I like cheap things with high value).

I kind of do think 24 warriors is too many, not sure what you think it will be achieving? It certainly has its upsides though - it may not kill that much more than a smaller block but it won't give up any points until run down or killed to a man. As such if you're thinking of doing 1 uber block I'd probably give it rapturous standard to lock it down.

Also yes, 12 warriors I think is far too small. They'll still kill lots of stuff but are fairly vulnerable to shooting before the fighting stage, and may not have the staying power against all those steadfast blocks they'll be facing. Because everybody will be steadfast vs them.

- Salvage

For your MoT warrirors I would put them at 20. 5 wide to reduce incoming attacks and you'll have 4 ranks which should take a while to work through.

The MoK warriors should be 18 strong at least. 6 wide to maximize damage output and 3 deep to help mitigate the loss of damage output from the first round of combat.

I agree with Salvage's load out for the BSB. Survivable, just as a BSB should be.

I know you're going for a bit of a theme list, but I'm not sure about the DP. I've never used one, but am interested enough to try it at some point. I've read that it's middle of the road in CC, does the same as a caster and is a bit over priced for what it does. If you want a caster take a Sorc lord, if you want to win CC take a lord. In either case they would be cheaper then the DP and free up points for other things.

Whatever you decide to go with, it looks like it would be a fun list.

I like the look of it a lot, although I'd probably tweak a few things:

-Drop another wizard level from the DP... 40 points a pop, sheesh!
-Drop MoK from the marauder horsemen

I believe that gives you 100 points... find another 30 and you could add a second warshrine, or go in a different direction and try to get a chariot... or use the points to buff up one of those warrior blocks. I would like to see one a bit deeper. I'd also like to hear if the marauder horsemen do anything- from what I've seen, they're not too useful... hounds can accomplish similar things but are much cheaper!

So it may end up that you decide to lose those units entirely and redirect their points... but this is a nice start

while boogie made a good start here is what I woudl do based on his list


L: Demon Prince - MoT, level 3, third eye, roar, stream = 500

H: Exalted Hero - MoT, BSB, Talisman of Preservation, great weapon - 223pts

C: 18 Warriors - MoT, full command, shields, blastered standard = 378
C: 18 Warriors - MoK, standard, musician, halberds = 336
C: 40 Marauders - MoK, standard, musician, great weapons = 242
C: 5 Horsemen - MoK, musician, flails = 111
C: 5 Horsemen - MoK, musician, flails = 111
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 6 Knights - MoT, musician = 260
S: 6 Knights - MoK, musician = 280

Thanks for the input everyone.

I think I like Boss's list the best.

I was considering your ideas Tides, but then realized part of the reason for me having marauding horsemen is because I like the models. It would be nice having another warshrine though. I could go with 3 battalion boxes for 36 warriors, 60 marauders, 15 knights, and 30 hounds. I could use some of the hounds as sled dogs for the warshrines.

@ itsonlyme, I was wondering your thoughts about running the knights at 6. Are they still useful at 6 wide? I was thinking that I needed a cavalry unit that is able to break ranks with a flank charge. Is my 10 knight unit just too big and costly?

That's a good reason, boogeyman... I just think they could also look awesome on your shelf . I, too, love those models but from what I've seen they just evaporate... even hunting small skirmishing units, a stand-and-shoot and they're toast!

Sled dogs for warshrines sounds like a sweet idea to me

As far as units of knights, if you lose one you're not breaking ranks... so imho, you could chop off a few (perhaps drop them to 7 to have a few bodies to spare once you take losses, or even 6 as already suggested) to bulk up things elsewhere.

True. Most of my models spend their time on the shelf instead of the table. Now I have to write a list using 3 battalions and of course the DP.

boogeyman wrote:@ itsonlyme, I was wondering your thoughts about running the knights at 6. Are they still useful at 6 wide? I was thinking that I needed a cavalry unit that is able to break ranks with a flank charge. Is my 10 knight unit just too big and costly?

you have to honest here, a unit of 10 only has to lose a rank and it can no longer break ranks, as you models have two attacks they are better off in small units, if you want a large fast moving unit you are better off with trolls, I would personally have 6 trolls (3x2) and 6 knights MoK, if you have a unit with 18 strength 5 attacks charging the flank of a unit engaged by your warriors its going to be lucky to still have more ranks than you chaos warriors, if its you khorne warriors that unit is taking 52 strength 5 attacks!

Throwing some rough numbers around and I would be around 3k with 3 battalions. I don't think I would be very competitive though.

DP

Exalted BSB

2x18 warriors

2x30 marauders

20 hounds not sure how I would split them. I was thinking 2x5 and a unit of 10.

2x7 chaos knights

2x warshrines.

I guess I could cut a bunch of commands and marks to get a third hero and make it a sorcerer. What do you guys think?

The 3k breakdown looks decent, though the warriors might be a bit small for that points level - but then I don't play 3k so no idea really. On the back up caster, I'm running one @ 2000+ to give my third eye DP some real support, since having some real spells of my own isn't a bad idea when the other guy is dwarfs or not helpful. Depending on how your 3k DP turns out the level 2 may or may not be useful - as in, your 4 level tendril prince doesn't exactly need a little buddy to manage his dwindling dice pile. Though an upside to the support sorcerer is that he can carry an arcane item, while the DP has no pockets for them

- Salvage

DP howling at the uncaring gods: ALL I WANT IS A DECENT PAIR OF PANTS!

I do second Salvage's analysis. Even a cheap level 1 sorc with an Infernal puppet would go a long way towards helping the magic along at only 110 points. A puppet to play with Pandemonium from your DP will be a lot of fun. "Relish thine miscasts!"

*Yoink* I needed a new sig... thanks Wehrkind

I'd third the notion of getting a little backup caster, as you've suggested yourself! Having a single arcane item at 3K is rather nice as opposed to none. I think it would be decently competitive for non-tourney settings, but I wouldn't play 3K to be honest. I've tried it a few times ('Ard Boyz mostly) and it just makes things too crazy. 2500 or thereabouts is perfect

What do you guys think about the Chosen? Or Valkia the bloody? Do you know what size base she is? Any thoughts on making some plastic Chosen?
I wish I could make up my mind. Now I don't know what I am going to put into my army list or what I need to invest in.

I've put my Valkia on a 25mm base. In my mind she's about the size of a Bloodletter.

As for Chosen, I don't use them. I've seen lists with them, but they almost always include at least one warshrine and the champ has favor. The goal, as far as I can tell, is to buff the crap out of them then go to town.

What did you use for her model?

Chosen are a good expensive hammer/anvil - especially if you go for the 3+ ward shenanigans.

Valkia isn't as good as she was in 7th now that she wont beat a unit by herself. I wish they would make a model for her, I've never seen a good conversion.

If you go the rout of the 3rd battalion I would make your chosen out of the spare warriors and use knight heads and spears.

Quick question- does that 3+ ward (shenanigans ) and other eye of the gods bonuses affect characters with the unit as well? (this could be different from warshrines buffs vs regular eye of the gods rolls, I'm not sure)

Just the Chosen, pg 47 in the codex.

Ah, thanks. I was unsure since I've seen some crazy things such as where a character who is stupid from a peace of wargear joins the unit, so that they can't get that result (because they're affected by his stupidity) and the like (same for magic resistance). Only tournament-worthy, and I'm guessing it's because those things effect the whole unit, but the reverse isn't true for the eye of the gods results.

As far as Valkia goes, it's an awesome idea / background, but really expensive and fragile...

Boss Salvage wrote:No love for Boogey, eh?

First Thought: Dammit, you guys are making me feel like less of a special snowflake for running a DP! If this fad of DP not sucking catches on I'll have to swap down to a fighty chaos lord again (though I'm not thinking that'll work any better in 8th edition).

Second Thought: You should make this 2500 even. Hell, here's my whack at that ...

L: Demon Prince - MoT, level 3, third eye, roar = 480

H: Exalted Hero - MoT, BSB, bronze armor, talisman of endurance, favor, shield = 200

C: 18 Warriors - MoT, full command, shields = 338
C: 18 Warriors - MoK, standard, musician, halberds = 336
C: 40 Marauders - MoK, standard, musician, great weapons = 242
C: 5 Horsemen - MoK, musician, flails = 111
C: 5 Horsemen - MoK, musician, flails = 111
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 10 Knights - MoT, blasted standard, standard, musician = 490

R: Warshrine = 130
-------
2498

Trim-trim here, snip-snip there. Essentially cut some command models, the 4th level on the DP (he's +4 to cast and most likely using the enemy spells), and slapped the BSB around a little. That knight unit is pretty uber, here's hoping it works for ya!

Third Thought: With a few exceptions (DP, deeper combat units, huge knights) this feels like a 7th edition list, or at least the flail horsemen are reminiscent of last Spring. I'd give it (or a version of this 2500 pointer anyway) a shot and see how you like it. It should do well, it certainly has a lot of 8th edition unit builds going on, but with some less-auto things too.

- Salvage

From what I've faced, Chaos Lords are devastating in combat lol. Just as good if not better than a DP I guess.

I've been thinking, why MoK on M. Horsemen? If they are out of the 12 inch bubble they have a chance of running into a larger block (after a failed restraint roll), I would go MoS.

Callum wrote:From what I've faced, Chaos Lords are devastating in combat lol. Just as good if not better than a DP I guess.

While Chaos lords are better in combat by far they are just not worth the additional points, I am personally not a fan of DP myself either but I can see how they have uses, An exalted with high strength, a good wardsave and 1+ save will standup to most enemy lords, I have had mine stad up to vampire lords designed for combat and come out on top

Casper wrote:I've been thinking, why MoK on M. Horsemen? If they are out of the 12 inch bubble they have a chance of running into a larger block (after a failed restraint roll), I would go MoS.

While this is a risk the pay off is 10 strength 5 attacks on the charge, hardly bad for a 100pts unit.

Still at the drawing board. How about this list?


L: Demon Prince - MoT, level 3, third eye, roar = 480

H: Exalted Hero - MoT, BSB, bronze armor, talisman of endurance, shield = 195

C: 18 Warriors - MoT, full command, shields, Rapturous Standard = 358
C: 30 Marauders - MoK, command, flails = 200
C: 30 Marauders - MoT, command, LA, shields = 220
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 12 Chosen - MoT, command, halberds, favor, Banner of Rage = 338 (would the favor of the gods item affect the whole unit?)
S: 7 Chaos Knights - MoK, command, Blasted Standard = 400

R: Warshrine = 130
R: Warshrine = 130

Total = 2511
I figure it is easy enough to cut some points with command units, but was wondering if I should do more trimming in order to add 1 or 2 warriors to that unit or just enough trimming to get under 2500? Once again suggestions would be great. Thanks. I was also considering Valkia, sorcerer, and a BSB. Unfortunately, half the reason for the army is to use the DP model.

I honestly think that 12 Chosen will be too small to do anything. Even if they get the 3+ ward save. Favor of the gods does indeed affects the units roll.

I could drop the champions from the warriors, marauders, marauders, and knights along with a knight to fit in 4 more chosen. That would bring me to 2499 I think. Any other advice. Thanks for all the help already.