scubasteve04 wrote:What do you think about making Imperial Fists chapter tactics include stubborn AND making Devistators scoring. This would make it the equivilent to the current Crimson Fists chapter tactics.

Possibly dropping Lysanders bolter drill to make up for the points. What do you guys think?

Devastator wrote:really devastators isnt that hard to type

take lysander and voila you have IF army

Devastator wrote:so this is case of
"army x has z so MY army y must have q "

Devastator wrote:so this is case of
"army x has z so MY army y must have q "

Devastator wrote:so why would their devastators be any different from ultamarine or raven guard ones?

Praxiss wrote:IF are siege specialists? Admittedly my fluff knowledge is pretty limited but..

I thought that the IW and IF were essentially opposites? So while Iron Warriors favour heavy wepaons and setting sieges, the Imperial Fists were the masters of defence and fortification?

Happy to be proved wrong though.

Through most of the Great Crusade, the Imperial Fists would be held in reserve, waiting while other Legions pinned the enemy in position and identified the keystone of their defense. Inevitably, that position would then be shattered by the Fists. They were equally valuable when resolutely blocking, and often totally defeated enemy breakthroughs. The Legion had a willingness to fight until they won which few opponents could match. Rogal Dorn led from the front, a tireless warrior who, having set the strategy for a battle, would unerringly place himself in the most critical engagements.

After the losses incurred in the Iron Cage, what remained of the Imperial Fists was a hardened, veteran force fully able to embrace the concepts of the Codex Astartes; alongside the Ultramarines, the Imperial Fists have become the epitome of Codex doctrine. All ranks are able to make tactical decisions and are encouraged to act on their own initiative. The Imperial Fists combine all arms in flexible balanced battle groups each of which can present an opponent with a diversity of threats, then press their attack so swiftly that the foe is overwhelmed before he can react. They retain their traditional skills in urban and siege warfare, although they are quite willing to engage and defeat the enemy in open battle. They will use fortifications on the defensive, but only after all more aggressive options have been exhausted. Their only weakness is perhaps a reluctance to accept the possibility of defeat that sometimes blinds them to the risks inherent in their aggressive stratagems.

The Iron Warriors, under the leadership and guidance of Perturabo, became renowned as the Imperium's devastating siege troops. Expert engineers with cross-training from the Priesthood of Mars, they quickly built on their already impressive reputation. Whilst the Iron Warriors were determined to serve Mankind and their Emperor, their specialization was an unfortunate one. The nature of siege warfare requires long periods of dull, back-breaking labor broken by the most brutal, merciless combat imaginable. Men, even Space Marines, cannot withstand such hell indefinitely and combat fatigue began to brutalize the Iron Warriors. The custom had long existed in the Imperial armed forces that once the siege lines were complete the besieged must either surrender or they could expect no quarter from the besiegers. With each campaign, the Iron Warriors came more and more to prefer the latter. Battle was to these Space Marines a release from the tedium of life in the trenches.

As the Crusade moved forward, many Iron Warrior citadels were established on liberated worlds, guaranteeing a safe line of communications and an occupational force for the planet. Tiny numbers of Iron Warriors were garrisoned in these new fortifications, sometimes in ridiculously small numbers. One often-cited example was the Iron Keep on Delgas II, where a single Tactical Squad of ten Iron Warriors was stationed, despite the world having a disgruntled population of almost 130 million people. Where other Primarchs like Leman Russ, Vulkan and Magnus the Red refused to split their forces, Perturabo obeyed his orders with increasing bitterness. The Iron Warriors were being turned into a garrison Legion, with tiny deployments all over the Imperium. The Iron Warriors' indisputable success in siege warfare led to them being 'typecast' to the extent that they became an automatic choice for any siege or garrison mission, ignoring the basic needs of all the Legion's Marines for rest and reorganization

NamTaey wrote:IMO, devastators aren't really a dire hard Imperial Fist unit. They are into siege weapons so maybe Thunderfires or Whirlwinds. Making them twin-linked?
But if you made devastators get missile launchers for 10 each, that'd be awesome.

nevertellmetheodds wrote:I think GW need to release a codex that covers special rules and tactics for some of the less well fielded chapters.

nevertellmetheodds wrote:I think GW need to release a codex that covers special rules and tactics for some of the less well fielded chapters.



They already exist, they're called Codex: Black Templars and Codex: Dark Angels.

punkow wrote:Giving up bolter drill? Bolter drill useless?
Attach Lysander (or master Khydor, my count as DA Miniature)
to a sternguard unit and watch them wiping out almost every infantry fool enough to get into 12".
And don't forget that you can assign to Lysander wounds (4 wounds eternal warrior 3++ save) to keep squad members alive
Actually I save 2 sternguard vets more per enemy fire round assigning them to lysander (with good chances of saving)

simply attaching him to termies isn't his role (strange for a TDA character, I know, but that's it)

I think imperial fists are well represented with his armywide stubborn... but I don't think giving up bolter drill is a good idea : it's fluffy, remembering the 3rd ed codex and the colonial bridge defense, and it's very imperial fisty. Scoring devs are nice but I would like to just increase his points value. (maybe 215?)