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I'm sitting with my film school alum and friends, and the topic comes to zombie films. My favorite films are night of the living dead and return of the living dead. In both movies, zombies had the basic motor skills to wield basic rocks and turn knobs. However Return of the living dead Did something that hasn't been repeated, Head shots not killing zombies. I think that most zombie flicks fail because the zombies are so easy to take down they devolve into either mow them down action flicks, or somebody making an unrealistic stupid mistake. There is no horror, just pop out scares. If you are in a room with 5 zombies and a gun, as it stands, you should be fine. How what if you had to deal with one zombie, and your gun doesn't mean anything. that's where the horror lies. My buddies would have non of it. Zombies have to die when you head shot them, I was told. They don't in fantasy settings, and the return series, and I don't think they have to be now. I think the action is over and the horror starts when you blast a zombie right between the eyes, and he just sits back up. Thoughts?

Okay.

When talking about the generic zombie, we could assume several things:

George A. Romero Zombies
Resident Evil Zombies
Fantasy Zombies

Each one is apart of the myth of the zombie, much like a vampire adheres to specfic mythos (aversion to light, blood drinking via fangs, ect.)

Does a zombie have to die when the brain is destroyed? In reality, that is how "realisitc" human zombies operate rather than fantasy ones, which could be reanimated via magic and do not rely on the human body to function and therefore have their head chopped off and still have the body come after you.

That's my point. There have been movies, where head shots don't kill. Must every movie be based off Romero's work?

You've got the tough-to-kill Max Brooks Zombie, too.

One of the most believable and realistic zombie template there is out there, imho.

I think I remember they had to incinerate the Zombies in that one. They managed to decapitate one, but it just left them with a bag of moving parts trying to kill them. Although the movie was pretty silly.

Just be thankful not that many are copying the 28 days later ones. Although I think the type of zombie should reflect the way they were created. Older reanimated ones being slower and weaker than the newer ones and such.

You can make any changes you want, provided it makes for a better movie. People insisted the fast zombies of 28 Days Later were a terrible idea and it the movie couldn't be a zombie movie, then people saw and loved the movie, now you can have fast zombies.

I think you're missing a key part of the zombie movie though - individual zombies aren't supposed to be the main threat. The danger comes from suddenly have to put your trust in with a group of strangers, and from having to survive once society has collapsed. The films are not, and never have been, purely about the challenges of fighting zombies.



EDIT - heh, ninja'd by one of the ancient order of 'no fast zombies'

n0t_u wrote:I think I remember they had to incinerate the Zombies in that one. They managed to decapitate one, but it just left them with a bag of moving parts trying to kill them. Although the movie was pretty silly.

Just be thankful not that many are copying the 28 days later ones. Although I think the type of zombie should reflect the way they were created. Older reanimated ones being slower and weaker than the newer ones and such.

Left 4 Dead did.

Also, the word "Zombie" nowadays is subject to many definitions. If I'm not mistaken, 28 Days Later "zombies" are the fast kind, born out of the "viral apocalypse" scenario, not clinically dead, and is as killable as an average human.

Well, the thing with the head is that its of course the nerve center of the human body.

However, not everything dies from headshots, not even every human being. The major source of death will be when the brain stem is destroyed for any living creature.

The same process follows zombies based on human physiology, the nerves are still being used but not necessarily for the same purpose(lack of breathing, etc).

Even then decapitating a zombie only disconnects it from the body so the head can still bite, but the body can't do a thing. Saints Row 2 had a zombie game that had zombies with their heads hanging by the spine over their back to prevent easy head shots, its possible as long as the nerves are still connected.

Its not just some silly thing that people invented and is no less than 'magic' zombies in terms of the ability to scare people.

I believe the basic fears of a zombie stems from a couple of things.

1) Zombies are the living dead, they are decayed, unnatural, and sins against nature.
2) Zombies eat people and people don't like to be eaten, especially if it consists of being ripped apart.
3) Zombies can surround you and can't die in as many ways as you.

So magic or no magic; if they are undead, rip and tear flesh, and can't die more ways than you then they have the basic scary needs.

Just flip the switch on their back from "evil" to "good" and that should fix the problem.

A Zombie that can't be killed?

Kind of makes me think of Jason or Michael Meyers, granted that they tend to make use of a little more cutlery than your average zombie. An army of those things? That would be pretty hard to deal with.

A generic zombie should be killed. An enhanced zombie should take some skill and luck.

If Dungeons and Dragons has taught me anything, it is that anything is possible.

You can have a zombie made from the corpse of a giant, and then turned into a fiendish zombie giant that shoots fire out of its eyes. Oh yes, it also can teleport too and strike you from behind.

Yeah...zombie.

Kind of like Rob Zombie?

That's the one thing I don't like about magic zombies, they can be and do anything. Why? Because they're magic and as soon as magic is involved all explanation for why something is possible goes out the window.

Person1-The space ship went from one galaxy to another, how?

Person2-Oh it's magic.

With the headshot zombie there's at least a modicum of an explanation of how the zombies are made and how they work. That can also be a bonus in the fright factor for the headshot zombie, it almost seems possible.

Let's face it, the fact that a magic zombie can fly, shoot laser beams, outrun a train, is invincible to bullets, and never dies isn't really a good horror movie. That sounds a bit more like a parody or a comedy.

Remove a little bit of those powers and leave it at the zombie just doesn't die and I begin to laugh at it because its just a tad bit too ridiculous.

I don't buy that.

Your suspension of disbelief can deal with a zombie, but not one that doesn't die to a headshot? I find a zombie that can't be killed to be more believable than these things with a built-in safety switch.

Zombies can only be killed by Clerics using Turn Undead.

What about Paladins?

Meh. Go to the DMV. Even zombies can't survive waiting in line at the DMV.

Alternatively, off with their heads! Use their bodies as transport animals = PROFIT!

Monster Rain wrote:I don't buy that.

Your suspension of disbelief can deal with a zombie, but not one that doesn't die to a headshot? I find a zombie that can't be killed to be more believable than these things with a built-in safety switch.

Actually yes, seeing as though the headshot zombie is based somewhat in science it is more believable.

http://zombieresearch.net/2009/11/23/the-zombie-nervous-system/

Zombies based off of real humans still use part of their nervous system and the brain is the command center of this system. Destroy the command center and the nervous system is sporadic and cannot be controlled which means the zombie's body is basically useless at that point.

Magic zombies run off of magic.

Meh. That research article wasn't really scientific. They don't need their autonomic nervous system and this frees up more resources, so the Zombie is able to survive longer? Well, since we're playing scientific here, do they explain how Zombies actually MOVE without lungs getting in some oxygen, the heart pumping blood around to get the O2 to the muscles and finally stuff like Adenosin triphosphate reactions in the muscles actually doing stuff? No. So, really, saying the headshot Zombie is more scientific seems a bit over the top to me. It's not fantasy magic, it's modern doomsday magic, that seems to be the difference for me.

I like this idea of scientific research on imaginary things. It doesn't make it not imaginary though. Still fake, still doesn't adhere to any rules.

Ahtman wrote:I like this idea of scientific research on imaginary things. It doesn't make it not imaginary though. Still fake, still doesn't adhere to any rules.

I wonder if we could get a grant for it? Then the circle would be complete.

Frazzled wrote:

Ahtman wrote:I like this idea of scientific research on imaginary things. It doesn't make it not imaginary though. Still fake, still doesn't adhere to any rules.

I wonder if we could get a grant for it? Then the circle would be complete.

It would not surprise me if we could.

I'm sorry. Did someone just seriously cite "scientific zombie research?"

Monster Rain wrote:I'm sorry. Did someone just seriously cite "scientific zombie research?"

Oddly enough, I do believe that very thing did just happen, yes.

Ahtman wrote:I like this idea of scientific research on imaginary things. It doesn't make it not imaginary though. Still fake, still doesn't adhere to any rules.

Bit like Creationism then.

Mr Mystery wrote:

Ahtman wrote:I like this idea of scientific research on imaginary things. It doesn't make it not imaginary though. Still fake, still doesn't adhere to any rules.

Bit like Creationism then.

Or climate studies, or economics.

I think we're glossing over the opportunities for a Zombie powered economy here. Ok if they can't die and don't emit greenhouse gases then think think of the opportunities:

zombie powered wheelchairs, elderly assistance.
zombie powered security systems.
zombie powered elevators.
zombie powered zimbonies.
zombie powered Big Wheels for the kids.
zombie powered mail carriers.
zombie powered lawn care.
zombie powered government workers, but I repeat myself.

The list is practically endless. Zombie Power, its the new black!

But if we put them on the telly for reality shows.......how would anyone know

sebster wrote:I think you're missing a key part of the zombie movie though - individual zombies aren't supposed to be the main threat. The danger comes from suddenly have to put your trust in with a group of strangers, and from having to survive once society has collapsed. The films are not, and never have been, purely about the challenges of fighting zombies.

That I agree with. Zombie movies aren't about the undead so much as having to trust your fellow human once all of civilizations safety nets are removed. You're counting on the person to see you as an asset rather than as just a resource to use up and cast aside. Though the zombies are cool.