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I want to get an Archon for my upcoming DE army, but i'm not sure what to give him considering the massive range of items in the DE armoury.
I was thinking:
Huskblade
Soul trap
combat drugs
Shadow field
Ghostplate armour
Haywire grenades

I know this is a very tooled up choice of options, but it seems good (to me that is) , as he allows no armour, he has a 2+ invun, and if it gets taken out, he has a 6+, he has a a 4+ armour, inflicts intant death from any unsaved wound, can become S10, can destroy vehicles, and can get some random bonuses each turn (from combat drugs and from strength through pain).
Any thoughts/tips?

P.S
He will have a retinue of 5 incubi.

okay a few things. First of all incubi aren't a retinue.

2nd ghostplate really isn't necessary if you lose the shadow field you will die anyway.

3rd haywire grenades on the single model don't make sense. You could use those point and instead get a blaster or blast pistol.

Hope this helps

Your Archon is very nice. All his options make sense, except for the Haywire Grenade. If you can find the extra 10 points, buy him a Blast Pistol instead of Haywaire Grenades.

Ghostplate Armor is fantastic, and will save you against units that are rapid firing into you, as 99% of the guns in the game have AP 5. Ghostplate has saved my Archon a few times already, and I never leave home without it.

dumplingman wrote:okay a few things. First of all incubi aren't a retinue.

2nd ghostplate really isn't necessary if you lose the shadow field you will die anyway.

3rd haywire grenades on the single model don't make sense. You could use those point and instead get a blaster or blast pistol.

Hope this helps

I know incubi aren't, what I meant was ge would be in a squad of them. Maybe ghostplate isn't necessary, but i thought a better armour save and an invun would be useful. Maybe not. With haywire grenades, they probably aren't needed I guess, but I couldn't get a blaster or blast pistol- A soul trap requires a hand to use dosen't it? Correct me if i'm wrong.

soul trap doesn't take a hand

I would lose the ghostplate because by the time you've lost your shadowfield, you've hopefully gotten at least 1 token for some FnP.

I would stick with the nades only if you got some spare points and there's really nothing else to spend them on.

I kind like the ghost plate and clone field my self and a djinn blade, soul trap, drugs.....
that my opinion

The usefulness of Ghostplate depends on what you are fighting . If you use Archon to beef up the killing potential against rank and file infantry then the extra save is always worth it because it it give nice rerollable (with fnp) 4+ against massed attacks. If you use the Archon to kill enemy heavy hitters like TWC or Nobs then the armor isn't worth it as you will die to first unsaved wound.

Also I'm very skeptic about the Soultrap on Archon. It seems ok if you are fighting nids because in that case there are enough MCs to get the strength pumped. However Huskblade isn't very good at killing MCs due to the pitiful starting strength. In any other case it doesn't seem like Soultrap would ever give anything. It is completely useless against IG and almost useless against Tau (due to retinue) and most other armies have only few ICs and no MCs.

Using Soul Trap+Huskblade means that you often have to go for HQs which are either heavily protected (Vulkan with termies) or very fast (DP on wings). Because Huskblade is just a str 3 pw against single wound models the Archon wouldn't be anything special before the extra str kicks in.

In conclusion I think that Archon would be more flexible and do more damage using Agonizer to destroy normal infantry squads and only attack powerful targets when the odds are favorable. Archon like this would always cost less than 150 points (Weapon and Field are the only must haves). Similar Huskblade build would be more expensive and almost always have lower killing ability.

I personally like the Soul Trap just because it's a very cool concept.

Anyway it does let you take on vehicles when your S gets very high. Also if the huskblade doesn't scale up against hordes, there's always incubi to attach to, who can take nearly anything on.

Then there's the drugs giving extra S which would be pretty nice with a huskblade but doesn't help the agonizer. Also the archon gets a fair amount of attacks, all of which can be directed to an IC, and only 1 has to make it through.

Just throwing out some extra ideas is all

asimo77 wrote:I personally like the Soul Trap just because it's a very cool concept.

Anyway it does let you take on vehicles when your S gets very high. Also if the huskblade doesn't scale up against hordes, there's always incubi to attach to, who can take nearly anything on.

Then there's the drugs giving extra S which would be pretty nice with a huskblade but doesn't help the agonizer. Also the archon gets a fair amount of attacks, all of which can be directed to an IC, and only 1 has to make it through.

Just throwing out some extra ideas is all

Drugs have 1 in 3 chance (reroll and str) to really help huskblade. There is also extra attack result which is good but not that special. Free Token is great but you have to use haemonculus to get any damage upgrade out of it and in that case you cant fleet because if the Haemy leaves when you have 2 tokens he takes one with him. However the drugs have 1 in 3 chance to do absolutely nothing as upgrading ws 7 to 8 doesn't do much and running speed buff can't be utilized with an unit that doesn't use drugs.

Using Incubi to counter the weaknesses of Huskblade seems bit silly. Incubi want to avoid armor ignoring weapons because they would die in droves to retaliation attacks and the Archon would want to charge those heavy hitters to utilize his shiny weapon.

You can use Court (Str 5), Incubi (Str 4 or 5), Grotestques (Str 5 or more) or Wyches (Haywire Grenades) to damage vehicles in melee, why would you need Huskblade and Soultrap to do that?

I meant use the incubi on non power weapon weilding dudes. You said that the huskblade is pointless to use on non IC's and MC's, so I suggested Incubi could hold their own against swramy melee dudes and other intermediate level CC guys.

Or maybe I misread your post.

Just because those other dudes can assault vehicles doesn't mean the archon can't. I didn't mean to really argue just add some extra info on the soul trap + huskblade, or explain what it could do.

Also I agree with most of the stuff you said, was just throwing some pro's out to your con's.

I really like the idea of the clonefield!

I'm not really font of the husk blade as the Archon is normally S3 (unless she has drugs, then there is a chance to get +1S).
The combo husk blade + soul trap is too situational.

My Archon always gets an agonizer.

I really like the idea of the clonefield!

Yeah, nice idea but crap.
Think about your Archon taking on a Hive Tyrant.
Then you better take a shadow field.

wuestenfux wrote:I'm not really font of the husk blade as the Archon is normally S3 (unless she has drugs, then there is a chance to get +1S).
The combo husk blade + soul trap is too situational.

My Archon always gets an agonizer.

I really like the idea of the clonefield!

Yeah, nice idea but crap.
Think about your Archon taking on a Hive Tyrant.
Then you better take a shadow field.

Haha...well, hopefully, if the player equipped his Archon with the Ghostplate/Clonefield combination, he wouldn't be so foolish as to get his Archon in combat with a Hive Tyrant.

2 builds: Anti IC, or horde Control.

Anti IC: Husk blade, Soul-trap, Shadow field, salt, Pepper

Horde Control: Agonizer, power Weapon, or Djinn Blades, Gohst Plate, Clone Field, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Salt, Pepper.

Salt and Pepper in the above is pretty much what ever you want them to be. Never take the Djinn Blades with any other Special Close Combat Weapon until GW FAQs how they work(do you always get the +2 Power weapon attacks that can bite you back no matter what weapon you choose?, are they even classified as a Special Close combat Weapon{as in, do you/can you choose to just use the Djinn blades as power weapons and gain the +2 Attacks, or does having them simply give you the +2 attacks and allow you to use the Agonizer, or whatever else and Pistol without penalty}?, etc).

ghostplate and haywire are mostly useless in your build for reasons stated, but you never know if that 2+ invulnerable(that you are forced to use against every incoming wound) is going to be removed by light weapons fire(i.e. not a powerfull enough weapon/strike to ID the Archon). the haywire grenades will be useless against Light Vehicles after your first IC Kill, and vs any other vehicle after your second(Love facing BAs, hate facing most guard lists). A Blast pistol is always a good choice(Especially with his BS)

It is difficult to make an all comers Archon, he will either Kill ICs or hordes well, but not be able to do both very easily; PW, Djinn Blades, or Agonizer, Blast pistol, possibly Ghostplate and Shadowfield, Phantasm, Haywire, Salt Pepper. He now cost much more than Either specialized builds and has trouble with ICs/MCs, and does not do as terribly well vs Tanks and hordes.

Saldiven wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'm not really font of the husk blade as the Archon is normally S3 (unless she has drugs, then there is a chance to get +1S).
The combo husk blade + soul trap is too situational.

My Archon always gets an agonizer.

I really like the idea of the clonefield!

Yeah, nice idea but crap.
Think about your Archon taking on a Hive Tyrant.
Then you better take a shadow field.

Haha...well, hopefully, if the player equipped his Archon with the Ghostplate/Clonefield combination, he wouldn't be so foolish as to get his Archon in combat with a Hive Tyrant.

Why would I run a one-man wrecking machine and give him crappy equipment?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

2 builds: Anti IC, or horde Control.

I don't see the 2nd build for horde control.
The shadowfield will go done on average after 3.5 rolls.

The Second build does not have a Shadowfield, it has a clone field.

Maybe i wasn't clear enough, I meant that an Archon only has 2 builds, either Anti-IC, or horde Control.

Why would you take an agonizer for a horde control archon? Horde control, to me, means slaughtering GEQs: poor toughness and armor save models. That means getting wounds is the key, not "quality" of the wounds. In that case, I'd say the venom blade is by far the best choice. You're looking at 2 kills against regular GEQs with the agonizer and about 2.5 with the venom weapon. You'll get even better milage out of the venom blade against things like orks, gaunts, kroot, etc with poor saves.

The venom blade also benefits from furious charge, rerolling to wound against MEQs and such.

I'm thinking Agoniser, PGL and shadow field with some Incubi is really and allround effective unit, good at anti IC, Anti MC and Anti Horde

Grimaldi wrote:Why would you take an agonizer for a horde control archon? Horde control, to me, means slaughtering GEQs: poor toughness and armor save models. That means getting wounds is the key, not "quality" of the wounds. In that case, I'd say the venom blade is by far the best choice. You're looking at 2 kills against regular GEQs with the agonizer and about 2.5 with the venom weapon. You'll get even better milage out of the venom blade against things like orks, gaunts, kroot, etc with poor saves.

The venom blade also benefits from furious charge, rerolling to wound against MEQs and such.

You can never be sure that you are able to fight your intended target. Venomblade would be great against Boys and IG because of the low saves but against Marines or an occasional Terminator the lack of power weapon status wouldn't be fun. With agonizer Archon kills 0.33 marines per attacks and with venomblade only 0.19 (0.22 with rerolls).

Sure the Venomblade is great if you know that you are facing blob guard or orks but Agonizer beats it hands down if are fighting Marines or need ability to take down MCs with 3+ saves or better. I would go with Agonizer in all comers list.

Clone Field becomes very good when it is combined with several Shadrnets as you can negate every attack from sergeant's PF or stop MC from hitting the Archon.