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Hey everyone i have 2 friends who plays space marines and space wolves i need some help with deafeating both their armies

I play imperial guard and have a fairly balanced force

All advice appreciated!!

what points do you play and what models are at your disposal?

Artillery. (That's a given for almost all guard plyers anyway)
Autocannons are good at killing rhinos. Take away their mobility and then just blow the hell out of them from across the board.

4 vet squads
2 demolishers (i have made it so it can be any variant i just swap the cannon for somthing else)
commisar yarrick
1 company comand
autocannon team
ratlings
tech priest
valkriye
griffon
and this is it



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ohh and how could i forget i also have a squaad of kaskrins

Looks like you need more infantry. You really need to be able to bubblewrap your vehicles with a few combined infantry squads (known as a blob) or conscripts. Otherwise drop pod melta will ruin your day.

Vet squads are fine for getting close in chimeras and shooting at their preferred targets (meltas for vehicle hunting or plasma for MC's or high save models). 4 may be too many though if you plan on running regular infantry too.

A couple of regular leman russes are good against marines since AP3 does the job quite nicely.

Now all this said there is no point talioring to fight marines. Don't just load up on all the AP3 you can find since it's considered bad form. Regular leman russ tanks are highly advised though since they do well against most targets for a very reasonable price.

what about demolishers they are large blast Ap2

and i also usually take my kaskrins with commisar yarrick and put them in the valkryie, fly them across the table disembark and then let loose with the ap3. then detach yarrick and assault is this good or bad

Essentially you have what you need, my playstyle involves CCS 4 plasma, Carapace armor, plas pistol Chimera
4 Vets 3xMG Chimera
Than I fill out from there

ok and i have a really hard time taking out his terminators that deep strike behind all my support and that pretty much goes downhill from there any suggestions

PF terminators or th/ss terminators? either or a good way to do so is either multiflamers, ie a pcs with 4 flamers, or a ccs with 4 plasma

Now all this said there is no point talioring to fight marines. Don't just load up on all the AP3 you can find since it's considered bad form. Regular leman russ tanks are highly advised though since they do well against most targets for a very reasonable price.

Huh since when? If his main opponents are going to be SMs why should he take units that are ineffective against power armor? Its always a given in 40k that you are going to fight mek 80% of the time so why not load up on AP3 killing goodness? Hell ive decided when when I go to my first tourney since I started 40k again I will be tailoring as much as possible to kill mek Its the only part of the meta game you can count on.

Melta, plasma, Lascannons. What you need to fight off any mech army

The demolishers sound good but as has been said before you need more infantry autocannon spam is good against SM so Hydra's are good. Punisher (2 or them) instead of Demolishers offer much more predictable destruction of squads but they must be taken as a squadron to be competitive whereas the demolishers would be better to be run as separate units.

Good luck.

so punishers are to be run in squadrons if i did field them and demolishers seperatley



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Also can you explain the proper composition for a platoon because i havn't fielded a platoon before i just have been using 4 vet squads

Platoons are actually decetively simple. All you need if you want to run a Platoon is 1 x Platoon Command Squad (PCS), and 2 x Platoon Infantry Squads (PIS). You then have the option of adding in other squads to supplement the core platoon, I can't rememeber the exact numbers but I think you can have upto 6 PIS, upto 4 x Heavy Weapon Squads, upto 2 x Special Weapon Squads and upto 1 x unit of Conscripts.

The only mandatory bit it the 1 x PCS, 2 x PIS. The rest is purely upto you.

L. Wrex

Ok kool but do i field it as one big unit on the field so they all benefit from and special rules like fearless from the medic

No. The infantry squads can "blob"-up, meaning that they can be fielded as one combined squad. The PCS and all other squads in the platoon are always separate squads.

And you don't get fearless from the medic, you get feel no pain. Never take a medic though, it is waaaay to expensive for a 5 man squad

Illumini wrote:And you don't get fearless from the medic, you get feel no pain. Never take a medic though, it is waaaay to expensive for a 5 man squad

Unless its on a plasma CCS. In which case its very much worth it to mitigate the damage from 'Get's Hot' results.

L. Wrex

jollycommissar wrote:ok and i have a really hard time taking out his terminators that deep strike behind all my support and that pretty much goes downhill from there any suggestions

If you want to take down space wolves terminators, try a power blob (or four).

Space marines have two advantages over the guard: bolters and power armor (or, in the case of termies, storm bolters/power weapons and termie armor).

As for the bolter, the one thing that you've really got to avoid is getting into a short-ranged fire fight unless you know you're going to win. How do you know you're going to win? You win a firefight against marines if your forces are more concentrated than his (you'll have to decide for yourself on the field), and if you bring things which ignore power armor. How do you escape a short-ranged firefight if you don't think you're going to win? Two ways. Run away (this will concentrate your forces), or charge in. Of course, you should only ever charge in against space marines if you know you're going to win (which once again means beating power armor).

The second factor, of course, is beating power armor. Thankfully, this is very easy for guard to do. Whether it's the cheap as chips basilisk, the cover-ignoring colossus, the regular leman russ, or stormies, or plasma hedge, or power blobs, or, or or...

Busting power armor shouldn't be that tough so long as you bring equipment that busts power armor. In your case, you've got a good start with the demolisher and stormies, but the rest of your army is carrying crappy weapons. Why should it be surprising when they put out a crappy performance?

As others have mentioned, up-power your infantry. This means plasma guns or power weapons (or, depending on how you slice it, meltaguns). On top of this, you're going to want to consider taking more options that are dedicated marine-killers, or are good against something else and marines simultaneously (like missile launchers or power blobs or medusas), or are just awesome in general, like Marbo.

Marines shouldn't be hard for guard to deal with, because the guard codex comes with a whole tool box crammed full of stuff that blows up their vehicles and punches straight through power armor. The only question, once you're actually taking those tools out of the box, is one of application, which we'd sort of need to see battle reports to figure out how you're using them wrong.

Ed_Bodger wrote:The demolishers sound good but as has been said before you need more infantry autocannon spam is good against SM so Hydra's are good. Punisher (2 or them) instead of Demolishers offer much more predictable destruction of squads but they must be taken as a squadron to be competitive whereas the demolishers would be better to be run as separate units.

Hmm. No offense Ed_Bodger but Punishers really are quite a bad choice, in my experience anyway. The Hvy 20 seems good but vs power armour the crap AP means that most of your few hits simply bounce off. The points cost is prohibitively high even before you consider adding sponsons, Id personally stick to the basic Russ and give it a lascannon in the hull. Of course YMMV

Hydra on the other hand are a sterling selection and excell at blowing apart any SM transport short of a Land Raider, you can also get 2 for the price of 1 tank.

Yes, the punisher is pants, but the hydra isn't the solution here either. Why? Because the hydra doesn't bust power armor.

In this case, missile launchers are the better option as 3 TL S8 shots are roughly as good as 4 TL S7 shots, except the missile launcher can be used in krak mode, giving it nearly twice the effectiveness of the hydra against power armor (and insta-glibbing obnoxious things like libbies and being better against dreadnoughts).

Agreed, and in good cover are maybe a little more survivable than vehicles without an infantry screen. I just include a Hydra out of habit cos ive taken more than enough kickings from my mates Speeder wing lol

konort ranger wrote:

Ed_Bodger wrote:The demolishers sound good but as has been said before you need more infantry autocannon spam is good against SM so Hydra's are good. Punisher (2 or them) instead of Demolishers offer much more predictable destruction of squads but they must be taken as a squadron to be competitive whereas the demolishers would be better to be run as separate units.

Hmm. No offense Ed_Bodger but Punishers really are quite a bad choice, in my experience anyway. The Hvy 20 seems good but vs power armour the crap AP means that most of your few hits simply bounce off. The points cost is prohibitively high even before you consider adding sponsons, Id personally stick to the basic Russ and give it a lascannon in the hull. Of course YMMV

Hydra on the other hand are a sterling selection and excell at blowing apart any SM transport short of a Land Raider, you can also get 2 for the price of 1 tank.

Weel in my experience punishers are awesome I built my list around a friends who is currently the five nations champion and both of us have found them to be an outstanding choice you just need to know how to use them

As I said, YMMV. I tried em a couple of times and they were less than dismal but maybe I was trying too hard to use em as I would a normal Russ. More target priority training for this gunner I reckon

...know how to use them?

Their firepower is equal to their points in LASGUNS on a weapon with mediocre range.

What deep and mystic secret do you have to making them effective? Or are you just really lucky or facing off against crappy opponents where the punisher's handicap didn't matter...

Thread's getting derailed a little bit. The Punisher is a situational tank that is at it's best against MC's or IC's.


I love Demolishers too, but their range makes them more ideal for cluttered battlefields with lots of buildings or terrain. The Standard Leman Russ is more than enough to murder Space Marines. I would also suggest a Basilisk. S9 AP 3 that can hit anywhere is dead sexy.

jollycommissar wrote:what about demolishers they are large blast Ap2

and i also usually take my kaskrins with commisar yarrick and put them in the valkryie, fly them across the table disembark and then let loose with the ap3. then detach yarrick and assault is this good or bad

Demolishers are large blast ap2, vs large blast ap3 on a regular russ, but 24" is nothing compared to 72". Your russ can pound pretty much anything on the table in LOS, your demolisher must move up to shoot, and the easiest way to take down a tank is in assault... They are good, but a leman russ is a good take all comers tank. the only trouble you will have is those terminators, but against regular marines it damn well slaughters them. Also against other armies, the russ still does well, horde armies don't like the pieplate, marine armies don't like being wounded on 2+ with no save (unless cover) in a situation where you have no infantry in your LoS, str 8 with 2d6 pick the bet armour pen. Isn't to be sneezed at when it lands on a rhino! The standard russ is an excellent take all comers choice, and everyone loves playing with tanks, yeah?

jollycommissar wrote:ok and i have a really hard time taking out his terminators that deep strike behind all my support and that pretty much goes downhill from there any suggestions

What you wanna do is bubble wrap using a platoon. Bubble wrapping is spacing your platoon out 1 1/2" - 2" apart, around a vehicle, to block deepstrikers. If you go to Ailaros' website and check some of his battle reps, you will see it in the photo's. Another thing to consider vs DS'ing terminators is your friends that have AP2 blast/large blast weapons, so your demolisher cannon, plasma cannons etc. They have to stay in a blob when they deepstrike, and you will find it's a perfect pieplate shape. I've sconned 7 terms in a single Plasma cannon shot- you just need one or two good hits to reduce that squad to either 1-4 left or wipe them completely (dice gods being dice gods).

Also- the power blob is hilarious in combat with marines, especially vanilla. I've seen 5 terminators die a hilariously horrible death where the sarge killed 1, then the horde of guardsmen (40 with p.weap sarge's and a p.weap commissar) shanked them to death in a mass of bodies. I've seen (in a multiplayer game) 2 hive tyrants and a DP charge a 50 powerblob on the first turn, via DoW deployment and a beauty of a lash... The two tyrants went down before DP was saved by the arrival of a mob of boys. 2 rounds of combat!

It's just so many damn bodies, and a flurry of soft power weapon attacks (sarge = 2A+1 for 2 CC, so that's 3 or 4 when charging each, plus the commissar. 18/24 power weapon attacks, even at str 3, is not fun when combined with 45/90 vanilla attacks!)

jollycommissar wrote:Hey everyone i have 2 friends who plays space marines and space wolves i need some help with deafeating both their armies

I play imperial guard and have a fairly balanced force

All advice appreciated!!

veterans + plasmaguns + chimeras + veterans + melta guns + valkryes + artillary
plasma toting veterans can wipe marines, melta toting veterans can blow up transports, artillary can blow up everything.