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4 S8 AP1 Melta shots/2 S5 AP4 flamers for 10 points?! No way. The Heat Ray I think needs to go. Its presence pretty much guarantees that the Gauss Cannon option is obsolete. Anything it can do, the Heat Ray can do better for a wee point increase. Just get rid of it.

Going off of Mitranekh's suggestions, I suggest T6 W6. Staff of Light definitely needs a buff. Maybe here a Heat Ray equivalent of some sort. As for the Inferno Gauntlets, make it either 2 HF or a pair makes 1TL HF. Not 2 TL HF.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Yes.... but no. T7 W6 would be the toughest MC on the market and I dont think the anti-Crons would call us fair. T7 W5 maybe, or T6 W6 like a Flyrant/C'fex (I think). Also the SoL needs buffing to be viable and the Gauntlets probably shouldn't be TL (2 TL HF? Bit much imo). I agree pts wise, maybe 225 if we did it your way 210 my way. And there's still the possible Sphinx thing to do. Yay

Agree with all these points. This thing, despite how super awesome we would want to make it, has to be equal or less than your average current MC, lest, as Mitranekh pointed out, the non-Crons complain about the brokenness.
Heat ray should also not be a weapons option. [edited, wrote the wrong ray]

Deathray never was a weapon option...

Forgot about the template attack of the Heat ray... thanks for reminding me about it

At first I wasn't going to add twin-linked, but in the end I did just because of the combat stuff, but it's gone now. I myself wasn't to sure on it, anyway.

As I said, I was unsure whether +1 both or +1 for W/T. I just did both to start with just to see how good it would be.

Hnoestly I only increased the toughness and wound so it would have a chance against the Wraithknight with it's T8.

Now reduced to T6 W6... thinking of changing it to T7 W5, though.

Maybe make the Heat Rays replace the inferno gauntlets instead of the tesla cannons instead? More fair? (15pts to replace IG w/ HR?)

Perhaps make the Colossus T7 W5 and the Sphinx T6 W4 (slow and tough vs fast and vicious)

Hmmm... Instead of staff of Light

Umbral Ravager

Shooting weapon with the following profile:

Assault 1 S- AP- Template, Torrent, All-Consuming Darkness

All-Consuming Darkness: The Umbral Ravager releases a deadly wave of what seems to be utter darkness. All but the sturdiest that is touched by this darkness disappears once it passes. Models hit by this attack must pass a strength test with rolls of 6 automatically failing or be removed from play, no saves allowed. Vehicles suffer a glancing hit on a D6 roll of 6.

Just a note for future reference, non-Ld stat tests always fail on a 6 anyway

 King Pariah wrote:
Hmmm... Instead of staff of Light

Umbral Ravager

Shooting weapon with the following profile:

Assault 1 S- AP- Template, Torrent, All-Consuming Darkness

All-Consuming Darkness: The Umbral Ravager releases a deadly wave of what seems to be utter darkness. All but the sturdiest that is touched by this darkness disappears once it passes. Models hit by this attack must pass a strength test with rolls of 6 automatically failing or be removed from play, no saves allowed. Vehicles suffer a glancing hit on a D6 roll of 6.

The fluff you used sounds like it would be more appropriate for a Harbinger than a Canoptek unit (and even then, it's a little too strong if it's also able to affect vehicles)
If it's just a strength test, why not just make it like the other strength test causing Canoptek weapons and have it use Exile ray? eg.

"Transdimensional Scourer"

Shooting weapon with the following profile:

Assault 1 S- AP- Template, Torrent, Exile, Industrial Strength

Industrial Strength: Models hit by this attack have a +1 modifier applied to the result of their strength test when testing for Exile weaponry.

Pretty sure exile rays test toughness, but sure. It was just a suggestion anyway.

That Scourer would be great, possibly give that as a Sphinx weapon because we still need to work on that. It could be
WS4
BS5
S5
T5
W5 (if it were W4 i don't think anyone would use it)
I2
A3
Ld10
Sv 2+
Wargear; Transdimensional Scourer, 2 Tesla Cannons
Rules; Fearless
Options;
May exchange Tesla Cannons for... Gauss Cannons Free or Particle Beamers +10pts
May take Etherium Phased Claws (Rending) +15pts
May take Reconstructor Scarabs +25pts
May take Dispersion Field Generator +20pts

Generally speaking, I like the changes you have made.

I think re-rolling RP with Undying Servitude is a bit much though. Maybe allow the unit the Overlord is with to always make a RP roll even if the unit is wiped out?

Mindshackle Scarabs needs to be more than 20 points.
I would say 35-40 pts and take the LD test on 2D6 not 3.
Alternatively make it so that if the model fails its test they don't attack this round (instead of attacking their own side).

I can't see a reason for Lychguard to take power axes when warscythes are available (unless you plan for them to be able to take them in addition to dispersion shields a la Eldar Wraithblades?).

I would like them to have a 2+ save option as well though.

The Ghost Ark changes sound good. I see no point in limiting the units who can ride in a transport vehicle (except units with the Bulky rule).

I like the extra weapon options for the Destroyers and Lord Destroyers with the Royal Court. A unit of T5 Destroyers with combat weaponry led by a Destroyer Lord could be fun.

I really like Sahtah the Enfleshed and Executioner Ezandrakh as well. Very well thought out characters.

Thanks!
Giving Ever-Living to an OL's unit is interesting and could work actually, especially in bigger games when Vindicators turn up and your LG just vanish.
35pts and a 2D6 test is now a pointless thing, 25 at most if you want it that way, 35 for 3D6.
I think the axe thing is a la Wraithblades I'll see when whoever was compiling this into a doc gets done. 2+ save T5 and shields is too much imo.

I thought we settled on 2D6 rolls for MSS but reroll first successful pass? (thus making them less broken and more fluffy, eg. the target fighting off the effects of the Scarabs on his mind). Still attacks his own unit, though (can't argue with a classic mind control mechanic like that).
With that change, 20-25 points for the wargear seems reasonable, does it not?

In regards to the other things, for Undying Servitude, why not just make it the same effect that the Tomb Citadel grants? (reroll RP rolls of 1). At least there would be a precedent for it, then.
Throw in a reroll for LoS! rolls, and you have one decent fluffy mechanic, no?

For Lychguard, we were hoping to make them into some sort of TEQ, meaning options for 2+ save, some sort of inv, and AP2 weapons. If we make it so we can mix and match wargear in the same unit (meaning some models armed with Sword/Shield, some armed with Warscythes), the maybe the necessity for the axe wouldn't be so pressing.

 skoffs wrote:
I thought we settled on 2D6 rolls for MSS but reroll first successful pass? (thus making them less broken and more fluffy, eg. the target fighting off the effects of the Scarabs on his mind). Still attacks his own unit, though (can't argue with a classic mind control mechanic like that).
With that change, 20-25 points for the wargear seems reasonable, does it not?

In regards to the other things, for Undying Servitude, why not just make it the same effect that the Tomb Citadel grants? (reroll RP rolls of 1). At least there would be a precedent for it, then.
Throw in a reroll for LoS! rolls, and you have one decent fluffy mechanic, no?

For Lychguard, we were hoping to make them into some sort of TEQ, meaning options for 2+ save, some sort of inv, and AP2 weapons. If we make it so we can mix and match wargear in the same unit (meaning some models armed with Sword/Shield, some armed with Warscythes), the maybe the necessity for the axe wouldn't be so pressing.

- If Lychguard got this option, I would like to see Wraithblades get the same. Mixing swords, and axes/forceshields in the unit would be fun. Not a 2+ save though, T6 is good enough already. Even if a 2+ is possible with a Spirit seer and some lucky rolling

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
That Scourer would be great, possibly give that as a Sphinx weapon because we still need to work on that. I'd be down for that

It could be
WS4
BS5 nah, should be the same as the other Canoptek units, BS4
S5 I say S6
T5 T6, too. This is a MC we're dealing with here. You don't think they should be a little stronger/tougher than a mere Lord?
W5 (if it were W4 i don't think anyone would use it) Spyders are only W3, yet people seem to have no problems with that. Besides, this guy is our Flyrant-esque glass cannon-type, the Colossus will be the heavy badass.
I2
A3 A4, I say. It's a Sphinx for crying out loud. I would imagine giant lion things to have slightly more attacks than your average Flayed One.
Ld10
Sv 2+
Wargear; Transdimensional Scourer, 2 Tesla Cannons How about we give it nothing but the Rending Claws at first, and have all the weapons as optional add-on, like the Spyders and Wraiths?
Rules; Fearless AND relentless, remember? (we were giving all the Canoptek units Fearless and Relentless)
Options;
May exchange Tesla Cannons for... Gauss Cannons Free or Particle Beamers +10pts Nah, cannons don't exactly seem like something a Canoptek unit should be armed with. How about just the Particle Beamers for 10 points, the Transdimensional Scourer for 20, or the Staff of the Destroyer type weapon for 15 (how does "Gaze of the Destroyer" sound? S6 AP1 2D6" line that can be drawn anywhere from 12 inches of its head. Can be fired at flyers, too, but just as a single skyfire shot, not a line, thus avoiding the problem with interpretation the Doomscythe suffered from)
May take Etherium Phased Claws (Rending) +15pts comes free instead
May take Reconstructor Scarabs +25pts seems fine
May take Dispersion Field Generator +20pts This, I feel, should really just be a Colossus only wargear option. Perhaps give the Sphinx a free Dispersion Halo (5++) instead.
Not sure whether we should give it the option to fly as well. A FMC would be nice, but might be stepping on the toes of other codecies.

Also,
Monstrous Infantry for Colossus
Monstrous Beast for Sphinx

Alright I admit mine was a bit of a bad start. So we give it the Rending Claws default and the Halo.... Options to take beamer, Scourer and the SotD thingy (I think perhaps Aeonic Gaze, Purging Stare or, and this is only a joke, the Super-Ultimate-Death-Stare-of-Doom!!! Only kidding)

MCs have relentless already

Monstrous Infantry? Monstrous Beast?
I'm guessing you mean like 'Monstrous Creature, Infantry' and 'Monstrous Creature, Beast'?

If so, 'Monstrous Creature, Infantry' isn't needed, it would just be Monstrous Creature as they follow almost all the same rules for infantry but with extra special rules, and can shoot two weapons instead of one.


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 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
T7 W6 would be the toughest MC on the market

Also, just one little thing, I believe the Wraithknight is tougher... from memory T8 W6, though I could be wrong about the wounds.

Not arguing with lowering the wounds (already done that ) but just correcting that one point...

Thanks for the correction I haven't seen the Eldar book so I wouldn't know. And the classifying is clearer now it looked like WHFB before

As I said, I'm unsure on the wounds, it could be 5... but I'm sure it's 6.

Both the Wraith MCs are T8... I know as the eldar player around her fields 2 lords every game and it's always a pain to kill them...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
MCs have relentless already

Yes, but the other Canoptek units aren't MCs.

Regardless, S7 (S9 with Warscythe) T7 W5 seems fine for the Colossus. He's only meant to be able to hold his own against other MCs, not hand them their assess.

What's everyone's opinion on having the Sphinx be able to fly? Too much?

I know, but you were saying give the Sphinx relentless, which it already has as it is an MC

eh, I think it's too much.

Chaos have a flighing dragon, makes sense

Necrons with a flying robo-cat... not so much.

'Monstrous Creature, Beast' is enough

Fair enough.
(though, with five of them, we're going to need to be able to combine them together to make Voltron)
...
(and no, I'm not serious)

However, should we consider some way to get the Colossus into battle faster? (one of the main reasons people don't take C'tan Shards is because they're so slow. The DK can teleport, Flyrants and DPs can fly, the Riptide can jump, not sure about the Wraithknight... how about the Colossus?)

WK is jump MC

Hmm, unsure how to do it and keep it fluffy...
Maybe make it Jet MC? Oc, could be too similar to the Riptide again...

Yeah, this is going to be tricky.
We can't have his only method of movement be walking, as no one would take him, especially when there's a beast MC available instead.
But as this guy would ideally be a massive statue that comes to life, he won't exactly be able to use a jet/jump pack. I'm imagining something along the lines of the Colossus of Rhodes, standing guard on a tomb world disguised as a mere monument to some old general, until trespassers intrude, then he activates, along the lines of the Destroyer guardian robot from the Thor movie... in fact, yes! That's exactly the kind of image/route we should be taking for this guy!
How did that thing move?
*goes and watches videos*

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, well by the looks of this, he's probably going to need to be able to deep strike-

http://youtu.be/hJBtMxJwQXI

Even a "Meteoric Decent" type rule (though not really Meteoric Decent, because that has to do with Vector Strikes), where you can place a small blast marker, roll for scatter, and anything under the marker takes Hammer of Wrath hits... we'll have to come up with a cool name for it ("Impact Strike"?)
(to make it fair, maybe instead of rolling for mishap (which he would be immune to, obviously, unless landing off the table), he has to take a single hit based on the target's toughness (AP-) to represent him ramming into them after dropping from the sky. Vehicles would be worked out at half their AV value, rounded down. Scattering into difficult/dangerous terrain would be a dangerous terrain test, impassible terrain resolved at at S10 AP- hit. After resolving wounds from that attack, move the colossus so he would be in base contact with the unit in question, or next to the impassable terrain it landed on).

Also, after rewatching that, yeah, maybe a heat ray wouldn't be all that uncalled for after all.
(or maybe he really should have the SotD type weapon... suddenly "Gaze of the Destroyer" is a perfectly suitable name)

Great idea but iirc the Mawloc doesn't get into cc if it eats part of a unit up so it would be unfair for the Colossus to do it. How about we make it Jump by giving it a Wormhole Generator (sort of like Portal?) because it's not treading on toes and makes it a viable choice

Aww, yeah, okay.
Bummer.

Anyway, a Wormhole Generator sounds like it might be fluffable, but I don't know about making it Jump/Jet... what are the other options for quicker movement?

It could be a one time shunt.

Simply a one time deep strike-esque jump? I guess that would work. (One-way Wormhole)

Or... we could give him a variation of the Veil of Darkness.
(the Dreadknight, how does its teleporter work? It can't assault after teleporting, right?)

The Dreadknight is Jump, and the teleporter is a one time 30" shunt move with no assault after teleporting.

Then we tread on DK/GK with the shunt. A VoD variant could work but it could possibly be once every 2 turns to represent the generator recharging, keeps the Colossus mobile but not too much. Or it could use other cron wormholes and appear through them (Eternity Gate/NS Gateway) if they're there, maybe only Monolith because it's bigger.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Then we tread on DK/GK with the shunt. A VoD variant could work but it could possibly be once every 2 turns to represent the generator recharging, keeps the Colossus mobile but not too much. Or it could use other cron wormholes and appear through them (Eternity Gate/NS Gateway) if they're there, maybe only Monolith because it's bigger.

Nah, then it would make it practically untakeable without a Monolith.
If we didn't make it jump/jet, but DID give it a Veil-esque ability, would that make it alright, or would it still be out maneuved by all the other "knight" MCs? (he'd still have a real problem getting into combat compared to the other guys, but would be better at getting where he needs to when you need him to be, as far as shooting goes)