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Those are using current points or the new points?

Is kings of war big in the states? I can't work out why a UK company would operate the kickstarter in dollars

Cheers for the calculations Daedleh. But also worth noting that by the time you get your army and rulebook some of the points values will have changed, ranged units will be cheaper and cavalry more expensive for example. But for comparisons sake we only have the current points to go by.

 judgedoug wrote:
Those are using current points or the new points?

Current, new points won't be done until the rules tweaks are locked in.

ahzek wrote:
Is kings of war big in the states? I can't work out why a UK company would operate the kickstarter in dollars

It depends. For instance, my group has abandoned Warhammer Fantasy (and at least two of the three FLGS have discontinued carrying it). However, nearly everyone in my group plays Kings of War.

Mantic has always done their KS in dollars.

Longstrider wrote:You could just wrap it into the statline of irregular skirmisher/militia type units that their nerve stat is lower

In some games, skirmishers are immediately removed if they make base contact with formed troops. (Not that I'm suggesting anything!)

Yonan wrote:Up!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-fantasy-battle-game-2nd-edition

Hmm. Fitty quid minimum pledge. I might just wait to peruse the free download, if they put one up.

I think I'm a tad too paranoid, but this looks inspired by the "buy this mahoosive glossy hardback rulebook and then buy the the rules all over again. Y'know, for convenience!" trend of GW. (among others)

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:Hands up who wants 40 Basilean Men at Arms!

*sits firmly on hands*

No, scratch that.

*cuts hands off*

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:and funded

Blimey.

GrimDork wrote:This was linked in the kickstarter comments:

Spoiler:

Oh lawdy the derpy bunny hands. Bane of dinosauria since Joseph Leidy uttered to himself "say, this Hadrosaurus thingy probably walked on two legs!" Not to mention the Arnold Schwarzenegger pumpkin-deltoids on a non-humanoid and the M. C. Escher spearhead, among other things.

Mantic, does your concept artist use any reference beyond 90's comics? One or two of the Basileans (and various animal mounts) might've been set on a slightly different path, otherwise.

Fenriswulf wrote:Yeah sorry, hope I didn't step on your toes

Not at all. I honestly didn't think I was being clear, in my snarky dismissal of the GW concept. (One of the things that helped put me off 40K/WHFB was that I really hate deciding which of a zillion little options to plug into a unit, and I'm skeptical about what kind of butterfly effect they actually have.)

ahzek wrote:
Is kings of war big in the states? I can't work out why a UK company would operate the kickstarter in dollars

Mantic's KS account was set up using the original US KS site before the UK KS site existed they would have to set up a new account to price in £ (their previous history that they have built up wouldn't show on the new account). Plus it's more of a psychological thing the majority of KS backers (in general not necessarily for Mantic KS) are still US based and like to see KS in dollars many won't back if it's in another currency.

ahzek wrote:
Is kings of war big in the states? I can't work out why a UK company would operate the kickstarter in dollars

Maybe something to do with KS being a US company? If they collected money in UK pounds, converted to US dollars to go to Kickstarter and then converted back to pounds for Mantic that would lead to a lot of fees? I have no knowledge if that is how it works though. I assume it also appeals to US backers more if it is in their home currency, and with the dollar being relatively weak against the pound it is no great issue for those in the UK either.

As for the popularity of KOW in the US you would have to look at the miniature selling companies over there. The fact that Miniature Market seem to be dropping KOW (or at the very least heavily discounting it) seems a little worrying, I have no knowledge of other such Stateside sellers. As for the ruleset some people, as shown by Judgedoug and his group, may be playing it but that may well involve some GW/Other companies models as well.

I'd be in for some terrain.

And maybe some hard plastic minis.

I'll admit to being shocked at how well Mantic continues to do with this things while sticking to 'restic'...

Realistic or not, that dinosaur Blaine is riding is far better looking than the derpy cold ones my lizards have been lolling around on for the past few years.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd be in for some terrain.

And maybe some hard plastic minis.

I'll admit to being shocked at how well Mantic continues to do with this things while sticking to 'restic'...

Maybe most people don't have a problem with it?

Sure, there's some vocal opponents that are regulars on Dakka, but for every Azazel "gotta burn it all" X, there's probably 100 others that are happy with it (and the price tag that comes with it).

Restic isn't the great evil some make it out to be it's fine for low model count games but I wouldn't want to do a load of rank and file in it.


it would seem Mantic agrees

Creator Mantic Games 8 minutes ago

@ lord_blackfang - for Board Games that plastic is great, but for games where you want lots of troops hard plastic is better for core units

 DaveC wrote:
Restic isn't the great evil some make it out to be it's fine for low model count games but I wouldn't want to do a load of rank and file in it.

Exactly!

High model count armies in Mantic's 'restic' = nightmare time!

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd be in for some terrain.

And maybe some hard plastic minis.

I'll admit to being shocked at how well Mantic continues to do with this things while sticking to 'restic'...

Alpharius if you don't already own KoW then I imagine you will be very happy with the $50 pledge, at least. The rules are great and easily adaptable to many periods (I've played historicals with them), and it looks like they're already coming with "freebies"
- Disrupted/Disordered Counters
- Wavering Counters
- Spell Effect counters
- Objective markers
- Turn Counter
- 1 Arc of sight template
- Ruler


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vermis wrote:

Hmm. Fitty quid minimum pledge. I might just wait to peruse the free download, if they put one up.

Wrong currency!

 Alex C wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yes, I am biased, but can I say how much I love Mantic at least always holding true to their "Great games, cheap huge armies" origins.

I was kind of hoping $300 would snag me two 1500pt armies and the rules, for the wife and I...

... instead for $250, it is two 2000pt armies and rules.

Wow... just wow. This makes it soooo hard to even entertain starting Warhammer Fantasy, as the price disparity and apparently quality of rules gulf, are just astronomical.

Where did you get 2000 points from?

Going off their free rules on the website, I've totted up a few of the mega-starters and they come to around 1000 points each.

You know what? I am DEEPLY disturbed by this... Let me explain.

JUST yesterday, I was looking up army bundles on Mantic's web-store. They had until literally yesterday been selling bundles they call "Mega Army Bundles" that advertised as being a 2000pt army for around $175.

Silly me, when I see the KS offering "Mega Army Bundles" for $100 I assumed they were the same and was incredibly impressed by the 40%-ish savings, thus why I came here to immediately praise them.

Imagine my shock when you rightly point out that these "Mega Army Bundles" are suddenly half the size (or less), AND the real bundles have vanished from their webstore.

I love Mantic, am grateful for many of the opportunities they've given me, and love them as individual folks... but without explaination this move is extremely bad form on their part and makes me reticent to back.

Edit: Just wanted to mention that something is definitely odd, as I can still find the "huge" army bundles on the Mantic site by going through the faction sub-menus, BUT the descriptions no longer mention the armies being full 2000pt armies, when I can say with 100% certainty that they did when I read them just yesterday.

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/undead/product/malaks-endless-hordes-mega-army-141-figures.html

So, the discrepancy is in how they're touting the points... or something?

 Alpharius wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Restic isn't the great evil some make it out to be it's fine for low model count games but I wouldn't want to do a load of rank and file in it.

Exactly!

High model count armies in Mantic's 'restic' = nightmare time!

And that's really only true of the Basilians, which have their own problems.

The Restic works great for large models such as cavalry, Ogres, Trolls, etc. It's not ideal, but way better than metal for larger models.

Even with Hardplastic, though, mantic's success rate is questionable. The only really unqualfied successes are the Undead skeletons, ghouls, and zombies, and the Dwarf Warmachines. The Elves (entire range), the Undead catapult, and the men at arms are pretty bad, while the rest are pretty meh.

To be fair, the KS bundles are all labeled as "starters"...

There's still plenty of army bundles on their website. Not sure which ones were removed, but the ones I see are all good value.

 Polonius wrote:

Even with Hardplastic, though, mantic's success rate is questionable. The only really unqualfied successes are the Undead skeletons, ghouls, and zombies, and the Dwarf Warmachines. The Elves (entire range), the Undead catapult, and the men at arms are pretty bad, while the rest are pretty meh.

The Deadzone Zombies, Enforcers and Peacekeepers show they have solved the hard plastic problems they had (of course the original sculpt has to be good to begin with, the best hard plastic sprue in the world won't improve a bad sculpt)

I've been told that there won't be any restic in this campaign. Only hard plastic or metal.

Speaking of hard plastic, lower abyssals are in the last update:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-fantasy-battle-game-2nd-edition/posts/1051768

 Vermis wrote:
Oh lawdy the derpy bunny hands. Bane of dinosauria since Joseph Leidy uttered to himself "say, this Hadrosaurus thingy probably walked on two legs!" Not to mention the Arnold Schwarzenegger pumpkin-deltoids on a non-humanoid and the M. C. Escher spearhead, among other things.

That was a bit cruel. But bonus points for picking up on the "M.C. Escher spearhead."

Ain't nothing wrong with Mantic's original dwarf sprues. I liked them!

So Lower Abyssals, Magi and Succubi in hard plastic off to a good start. I hope they don't all have that gurning smile though.

Lower Abyssals will get two handed weapons at some point too.

 Vermis wrote:

Hmm. Fitty quid minimum pledge. I might just wait to peruse the free download, if they put one up.

That's $50 USD, not pounds, so it's 30 quid for a hardcover rules + lists + fluff book and a softcover rules and lists only book

I also dispute the assertion that the hard plastic Elves are objectively bad. I quite like them.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

Hmm. Fitty quid minimum pledge. I might just wait to peruse the free download, if they put one up.

That's $50 USD, not pounds, so it's 30 quid for a hardcover rules + lists + fluff book and a softcover rules and lists only book

And apps and counters...

 DaveC wrote:
So Lower Abyssals, Magi and Succubi in hard plastic off to a good start. I hope they don't all have that gurning smile though.

Lower Abyssals will get two handed weapons at some point too.

Looks a bit like a cross between a GW goblin and a Genestealer. Mantic demons = Goblins with ovipositors, I guess.

More like Mantic Demons = Medieval Devils.

Full update

Update #4 Nov 14 2014

Dark Forces Rising

Kings of War’s newest army is here!

The Force of Abyss list is getting revamped for the new edition – and with it comes a model range for the first time. We’re going to be spending some time nailing the core of the army so we’re posting up a few goals at once so you can see what’s coming initially for these horny devils.



Work in progress art.

You’ll notice that on the Starter and Mega-Starter graphics, the Abyssal army is currently blanked out. We’ll flesh these out as we go along hitting these goals.

If you’re super confident of beating these, you could go ahead and pledge for an additional army now - remember you don’t make your choices on armies until after the campaign has finished, which gives us plenty of time to get them funded.

And if we don’t break them all, you can always choose something else … but we’re a long way from that, so let’s check out what these goals are!

$110,000 – NEW! Lower Abyssals

A numberless horde, these red-skinned demons of the Abyss make up the footsoldiers of the Abyssal forces. Some arm themselves with crude close combat weapons with which to lay waste to the enemy in brutal close combat. Others shoot flames from their hands and use tooth and claw to rend their enemies. All are utterly lethal – a nightmare legion marched straight from the depths of hell, intent only on death and destruction.



If we hit this goal, we will fund a unit of hard plastic Lower Abyssals. This core infantry unit will form the foundation of your Abyssal armies, and come with a variety of weapons and heads.







You can add a unit of 20 Lower Abyssals to your pledge for $15.

A unit of 20 will be included in the Forces of the Abyss Starter ($50) and a unit of 40 Forces of the Abyss Mega Starter army ($100) which you add-on to your pledge, or choose as part of a pledge of God of War.

$120,000 – Lower Abyssal Magi

If we hit this goal, we will upgrade the Lower Abyssals to make an alternative unit with ranged attacks.



This is a unit choice that is new to the army, and the upgrade to the hard plastic sprue will provide even greater choice and variety in both your miniatures collection and how you configure your force.

You can add a unit of 20 Lower Abyssals, which can also be made into Magi, by increasing your pledge by $15.

10 additional Lower Abyssals will be included in the Forces of the Abyss Starter ($50) and 20 get added to the Forces of the Abyss Mega Starter army ($100) which you can choose as part of a pledge of God of War, or add-on to an existing pledge.

After that we’ll look at creating a hero to lead your force, and a second core hard plastic unit: the Succubi!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Mantic's web-store. They had until literally yesterday been selling bundles they call "Mega Army Bundles" that advertised as being a 2000pt army for around $175.

It depends. The named armies all vary in points cost. I don't believe the Mega Armies have a points cost listed.

For example

1700 points - http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/elves/product/the-guardians-of-ithris-135-figures.html
2700 points - http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/elves/product/lord-athuens-retribution-186-figures.html
1800 points - http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/orcs/product/graks-skull-taker-horde-ultimate-orc-army-deal-155-figures.html
1500 points - http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/dwarfs/product/thorgersons-storm-of-steel-135-figures.html
2000 points - http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/dwarfs/product/stelanskars-guard-166-figures.html
2000 points - http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/undead/product/the-bloodmire-legion-179-figures.html

Good to see them going for hard plastic to start with for these,

(and fortunately I'm not keen on the aesthetic, but when they do Succubae who knows I may crack)