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 Kirasu wrote:


We already know the thousand sons don't have plot armor, since they didn't have enough guys nor were they good enough :p. After all, it's not called 'prospero lives!"

Too soon, man. Too soon.

Are there any information about the amount of MKiii marines in the box? And their equipment?

 Paintalist wrote:
Are there any information about the amount of MKiii marines in the box? And their equipment?

Nope. Just the pic and that is all I believe.

I need 30 marines. That or play 2 tacs and a vet squad

I will use this box to start a 30k DG army. I love MKII armor. Especially, when it is dirty and weathered, but the Sigmarines in golden armour are not interesting for me.

 Paintalist wrote:
I will use this box to start a 30k DG army.

Me too. 40k though, finally get some use out of the 90-odd Mantic plague zombies sitting in my cupboard.

Custodes will probably have about 5 wounds. chapter masters have 4. I never got why being better at combat made you tougher

Being tougher makes you better at combat?

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Custodes will probably have about 5 wounds. chapter masters have 4. I never got why being better at combat made you tougher

At most I could see them being 2 wounds a pop on par with guys like GK paladins, Nobz, Wulfen. I think WS5 is very likely, maybe I5 but otherwise fairly similar to veteran marine stats.

 Grimskul wrote:

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Custodes will probably have about 5 wounds. chapter masters have 4. I never got why being better at combat made you tougher

At most I could see them being 2 wounds a pop on par with guys like GK paladins, Nobz, Wulfen. I think WS5 is very likely, maybe I5 but otherwise fairly similar to veteran marine stats.

I expect stats like those, PLUS T and possibly S 5 as well.

They're speculated by many to be, essentially, astartes from the Emperor's geneseed, after all. Even if not that, they're often described as being larger and more powerful than regular Astartes.

It doesn't seem right that chapter masters are tougher than the emperors bodyguards. It doesn't right that captains are tougher than the emperors body guards. A custodian is meant to be to a space marine what a space marine is to a mortal man

It should be noted that it says the rules included in the issue are for the Horus Heresy.

Praetors (Chapter Master equivalents) only have 3 wounds and Centurions (Captain equivalents) only have 2.


And let's be honest, it doesn't really make sense for a Captain/Chapter Master to be tougher than a normal marine, and yet they are rules-wise.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
It should be noted that it says the rules included in the issue are for the Horus Heresy.

Praetors (Chapter Master equivalents) only have 3 wounds and Centurions (Captain equivalents) only have 2.


And let's be honest, it doesn't really make sense for a Captain/Chapter Master to be tougher than a normal marine, and yet they are rules-wise.

I believe GWs intent is that experience equals tougher. Obviously they have never been to the V.A. lotsa collected experience .
:
My thought should be that perhaps instead of more wounds just give them stock better stats. Same goofy logic that a bike makes you tougher but not a horse? any idea what battlefield role the custodians will fill? are they blenders in a world of shooty, gold colored grey knights, or ?
Also am I correct in thinking that we won't se custodial vehicles until we reach terra? You know jet bikes and hover rhinos?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
It should be noted that it says the rules included in the issue are for the Horus Heresy.

Praetors (Chapter Master equivalents) only have 3 wounds and Centurions (Captain equivalents) only have 2.


And let's be honest, it doesn't really make sense for a Captain/Chapter Master to be tougher than a normal marine, and yet they are rules-wise.

it also represents a characters (independent or otherwise) plot shields IMO - forging the narrative.

In the books custodes die just as easy to marines as marines die to them (Custodes are often just used as throw away characters that get slaughtered). Hopefully they make them a bit more heroic in the miniature version.

They should make them an add on for loyal space marines. unless there is a custodes FOC that lets you field 5 dudes

Fluff wise the custodes are kinda up and down, i kinda figure how they sit next to marines in toughness and ability ways but the fluff from hh paints them each one is an army in itself making them appear tougher than a marine. Then i have just read about them again in the beast arises series and they appear to get the butts handed to them by 1 or 2 marines.

Rules wise i often wondered how their stats would look. It maybe that they are match for match the same as a marine but they have different special rules that set them apart from marines. Not elevating them above marines, just something that would give them a different kind of strength on the battlefield that spacemarines dont. Its just an idea though.

 jonkofi wrote:
Fluff wise the custodes are kinda up and down, i kinda figure how they sit next to marines in toughness and ability ways but the fluff from hh paints them each one is an army in itself making them appear tougher than a marine. Then i have just read about them again in the beast arises series and they appear to get the butts handed to them by 1 or 2 marines.

Rules wise i often wondered how their stats would look. It maybe that they are match for match the same as a marine but they have different special rules that set them apart from marines. Not elevating them above marines, just something that would give them a different kind of strength on the battlefield that spacemarines dont. Its just an idea though.

Yea. Good statements here. Phosis T'Kar of the Thousand sons fights a few at once and easily kills them. He even states hes disgusted with how easily they die. He was also about to kill Constantin Valdor before his flesh change

str00dles1 wrote:

 jonkofi wrote:
Fluff wise the custodes are kinda up and down, i kinda figure how they sit next to marines in toughness and ability ways but the fluff from hh paints them each one is an army in itself making them appear tougher than a marine. Then i have just read about them again in the beast arises series and they appear to get the butts handed to them by 1 or 2 marines.

Rules wise i often wondered how their stats would look. It maybe that they are match for match the same as a marine but they have different special rules that set them apart from marines. Not elevating them above marines, just something that would give them a different kind of strength on the battlefield that spacemarines dont. Its just an idea though.

Yea. Good statements here. Phosis T'Kar of the Thousand sons fights a few at once and easily kills them. He even states hes disgusted with how easily they die. He was also about to kill Constantin Valdor before his flesh change

Correction, he was about to kill Valdor when he realized he had already undergone flesh change. He was smashing through Space Wolves and Custodes alike with "a strength he'd never known". Like others, his power (specifically Telekinesis) was running amok and amping his abilities up many times what he was normally capable of, leading to his flesh change.

I feel like its wouldn't be too much to see custodes with W/B/T/I 5, 2w, 3+, 6++ if they're stuck to a single five man group of ICs to represent them as individual warriors instead of the unit soldiers that the astartes are. Maybe have them as able to be taken as a honor guard since they'll probably have the block rule that the Deathwatch dude with the guardian spear has?

Of course it would probably be a expensive points wise but I really don't think Custodes or SoS would do well for a "army" but more a supplimental force to spice things up. From a fluff perspective only Big E would have the ability to field them enmass and serving as a army is neither of their primary roles.

Either way I really hope the Custodes and SoS are treated well and even if not I'll provably snag a small unit just to paint and put on a shelf or pull out for the occasional fluffy battle

Yeah, I'd definitely say that a common, non-character Custodes would be far below a Marine Chapter Master. I'd say about on par with a Veteran, perhaps with a better weapon skill, and better equipment.

Custodes in the fluff are basically mini-Primarchs though, aren't they?

No. They're roughly equivalent to the various high level champions of the Legions. Probably a little more durable, but not even close to Primarch invulnerability.

They are to space marines what space marines are to mortals, or so one description goes.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
No. They're roughly equivalent to the various high level champions of the Legions. Probably a little more durable, but not even close to Primarch invulnerability.

Ya primarch is some type of unknown super voodoo handpicked and handsculpted super genome soldiers.

Custodes were hand grown super soldiers that have no no primarch genesede (or maybe the emporer used his?) however he stopped making them become they were too expensive and took to long to make. They are just slightly more refined hand built space marines.

Whereas the space marines are the mass produced super soldiers version.

As a whole custodes are just slightly less powerful on average. However there can always be a badass space marine who is better then most average custodes and likely a badass custodes who will crush most space marines.

I agree with master. From reading all the hh books, the art books, white dwarfs, etc, custodes are slightly faster, stronger, and better trained marines. They also have better weapons and armor (they are the elite guard... like navy seals compared to army footsoldiers; both are good and necessary, but the seals are, well, seals)

Sure there may be exemplary marines, but the custodes guard the emperor and are all exemplary. Some are even better than that!

Anyone who believes custodes are weaker, less powerful, and worse off than marines haven't read the fluff. The emperor made the finest, and wouldn't have legion marines better off than his personal bodyguard.

Anyway I'm looking forward to this. My favorite marines, my favorite Termies and custodes to go with my Imperial Fists!

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Anyway I'm looking forward to this. My favorite marines, my favorite Termies and custodes to go with my Imperial Fists!

Yeah if this release holds right now it couldn't have worked any better. I'm working on a 30k CF army and these models should take all of my tac squad marines.

SpyderG6 wrote:

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Anyway I'm looking forward to this. My favorite marines, my favorite Termies and custodes to go with my Imperial Fists!

Yeah if this release holds right now it couldn't have worked any better. I'm working on a 30k CF army and these models should take all of my tac squad marines.

30k Crimson Fists?

Guess it would be more accurate to say post-Heresy CF. I use the IF rules, but paint them CF colors.