Spetulhu wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Looking specifically at the US here it really seems a cultural thing that cops are treated with such deference that they almost appear to covered in teflon when it comes to serious issues.

1. Cultural difference. The conservative culture in the US supports the police. This is also the culture that tends to draw recruits to the police.

Which does seem a bit odd when you think about it. Isn't "conservative" also about respecting the Constitution, the rights it gives people and ofc the right to bear arms? No one can tell an American what to do? Why would these same people then support a police force that does whatever it wants? Is it just that they think the police will never come for them because they are good people who'll never have trouble with the law?

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
This was not either Payne's nor Tracy's first violation of policy - sexual harassment and, surprise, surprise, failure to report an incident.

The Auld Grump

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow that's awesome. On what planet is that illegal?

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
The patient whose rights Alex Wubbels was acting to protect has died.

SALT LAKE CITY — A Utah police officer was fired Tuesday after being seen on video roughly handcuffing a nurse because she refused to allow a blood draw in an incident that became a flashpoint in the national conversation about use of force.

Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown made the decision to fire Detective Jeff Payne after an internal investigation found he violated department policies when he arrested nurse Alex Wubbels and dragged her screaming from the hospital, department spokesman Sgt. Brandon Shearer said.

Brown said in a disciplinary letter that he was "deeply troubled" by Payne's conduct, which he described as "inappropriate, unreasonable, unwarranted, discourteous, disrespectful" and said brought "significant disrepute" on the department.

"You demonstrated extremely poor professional judgment (especially for an officer with 27 years of experience), which calls into question your ability to effectively serve the public and the department," Brown wrote.

Attorney Greg Skordas, who represents Payne, said his client plans to appeal a firing he considers unfair and over the top. Skordas said Payne would still be employed if the body camera footage hadn't generated so much attention and blown the events out of proportion.

Payne's supervisor, Lt. James Tracy, was demoted to officer. His lawyer, Ed Brass, couldn't immediately be reached.

Tracy made an impulsive decision in ordering Payne to arrest Wubbels without first taking time to understand the facts of the situation and the law, Brown wrote in his disciplinary letter.

He said the order created chaos and unnecessarily escalated the situation.

"Your lack of judgment and leadership in this matter is unacceptable, and as a result, I no longer believe that you can retain a leadership position in the department," Brown said.

The letter said Wubbels told investigators that Tracy minimized her concerns, intimidated and lectured her, and made her feel like she was to blame for the events.

The Associated Press obtained the disciplinary letters for Payne and Tracy through a public records request.

Wubbels' attorney, Karra Porter, said they are pleased that Brown took action and recognized that the officers made crucial mistakes that have eroded public trust. Porter said she hopes the events are a catalyst to more public conversations about appropriate police behavior.

The case shows the vital importance of officers wearing body cameras and making those videos available to the public, Porter said.

"Without the body camera footage, it would have been a she-said, they-said," Porter said. "Alex feels very strongly that her story would have never been told if it weren't for the body camera footage."

Asked about a potential lawsuit, Porter said she expects to meet soon with city officials to discuss next steps that could include settlement talks.

The officers have five business days to appeal the decisions by the chief.

The case received widespread attention after police body-camera video was released by Wubbels and her lawyer in late August.

The video showed her explaining that hospital policy required a warrant or formal consent to draw blood from the patient who had been injured in a car crash.

The patient wasn't suspected of wrongdoing. He was an off-duty reserve Idaho police officer driving a semitrailer when he was hit by a man fleeing police in a pickup truck.

Payne nevertheless insisted on the blood draw, saying the evidence would protect the man.

Payne told Wubbels his supervisor said he should arrest her if she didn't allow the draw. Wubbels was later freed from the handcuffs and has not been charged.

Both officers were investigated and placed on paid administrative leave after the video became public. Salt Lake City police apologized and changed their policies.

Prosecutors, meanwhile, opened a criminal investigation into the arrest and asked the FBI to determine if there were any civil rights violations.

Payne was also fired from a part-time job as a paramedic after he was caught on camera saying he'd take transient patients to the University of Utah hospital where Wubbels worked and transport "good patients" elsewhere.

Payne had previously been disciplined in 2013 after internal-affairs investigators confirmed that he sexually harassed a female co-worker in a "persistent and severe" way.

His tenure also brought commendations for solving burglary cases and being shot in the shoulder during a traffic stop in 1998.

Tracy, meanwhile, earned commendations for drug and burglary investigations

 redleger wrote:

Shouldn't it be the other way around or both fired?

 daedalus wrote:
What do you know, every once in a while, justice IS served!

Ouze wrote:Definitely agree. They were both wrong but I think the onus of responsibility to avoid the unlawful detainment would have been on the superior officer who authorized said unlawful detainment. They definitely both should have been fired.

sirlynchmob wrote:No the nurse shouldn't be fired, the nurse was in the right, she did her job and followed the law and her procedures. why on earth you two think she should be fired for that is beyond me.

 Ouze wrote:

Ouze wrote:Definitely agree. They were both wrong but I think the onus of responsibility to avoid the unlawful detainment would have been on the superior officer who authorized said unlawful detainment. They definitely both should have been fired.

sirlynchmob wrote:No the nurse shouldn't be fired, the nurse was in the right, she did her job and followed the law and her procedures. why on earth you two think she should be fired for that is beyond me.

Bolded for emphasis. I'm referring to the cop who made the arrest and even more so, the cop's supervisor who authorized her detainment - and so, in my mind, bears greater responsibility. Why on earth you would think i meant the nurse is beyond me

 Dreadwinter wrote:
So how about that jail time? We going to see any charges brought against him for kidnapping or battery?

 Ouze wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
So how about that jail time? We going to see any charges brought against him for kidnapping or battery?

When a black teenager is murdered by the police, you can expect nothing, and when a white blonde woman is roughed up, you can expect firings, but for a police officer to be charged with kidnapping or battery? For a detainment, not even an arrest?

The cop better have roughed up a white male CEO or something to get to that level of our legal system, we're talking like, Rock Band, Through the Fire and Flames with 100% on Hard, level. Maybe if he had roughed up Tim Cook.

 MDSW wrote:
I would certainly like to see that painfully egotistical, supreme jerk, Harvey Weinstein roughed up as he is arrested. Never happen, I know, as criminal charges and an official arrest may never happen, but this guy is the epitome of a slimeball happily marching to the tune of the ultra-rich white Hollywood privileged never thinking he was doing anything wrong.

...sorry... rant over... :-)

 Ouze wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
So how about that jail time? We going to see any charges brought against him for kidnapping or battery?

When a black teenager is murdered by the police, you can expect nothing, and when a white blonde woman is roughed up, you can expect firings, but for a police officer to be charged with kidnapping or battery? For a detainment, not even an arrest?

The cop better have roughed up a white male CEO or something to get to that level of our legal system, we're talking like, Rock Band, Through the Fire and Flames with 100% on Hard, level. Maybe if he had roughed up Tim Cook.

 Vaktathi wrote:
This went full derp real fast...

Anyway, baaaaaaack on topic, good to see meaningful action taken in this instance. Not as much as id like but the consequences are meaningful and the officers involved are going to feel this for the rest of their lives, even if only in their pocketbooks.

Shame it only happened after public pressure from the release of body cam footage however.

 feeder wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
This went full derp real fast...

Anyway, baaaaaaack on topic, good to see meaningful action taken in this instance. Not as much as id like but the consequences are meaningful and the officers involved are going to feel this for the rest of their lives, even if only in their pocketbooks.

Shame it only happened after public pressure from the release of body cam footage however.

I find it darkly amusing that their appeal is basically "I'm only getting punished because I got caught on camera". Maybe there is a systemic problem with police abusing their power if that is their actual defense.

 feeder wrote:
Maybe there is a systemic problem with police abusing their power if that is their actual defense.

 Ouze wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Maybe there is a systemic problem with police abusing their power if that is their actual defense.

Sounds like you don't support the troops.