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Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

Same number of shots.

Each Gauss shot gets you 2/3 hits, which is 4/9 wounds, which is 20/54 or 10/27 damage.

Each Tesla shot gets you one hit, which is 2/3 wounds, which is 2/6 or 1/3 damage.

37% of a wound compared to 33%. Not THAT much better.

Edit: Add MWBD, and you get 5/6 Guass hits, 10/18 or 5/9 wounds, and 25/54 damage.

You get 3/2 Tesla hits, 1 wound, and 1/2 damage.

It's BETTER now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 19:50:15


Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




Dionysodorus wrote:

Yeah, I feel like 1 unit of deep-striking Destroyers is a pretty easy pick, provided you can find room for the detachment. I'm not nearly as impressed with them without the stratagem, so I'm reluctant to take more than one unit. Unfortunately unless you're going for something very specific you probably don't want that code on very many things. But Scarabs are pretty promising with it since you mostly want them for movement anyway, and occasionally the ability to guarantee a 16" flying move and then still charge will be incredible.

Maybe something like:
Sautekh Battalion:
Imotekh
Lord
23 Immortals
3 DDAs

Nephrekh Outrider:
Cryptek
3 Scarabs
6 Destroyers
9 Tomb Blades

Where you could drop a DDA or the Tomb Blades to find room for other stuff. It might make sense to drop off a bunch of Warriors with the Destroyers. Or move the Tomb Blades to Sautekh to benefit from their stratagem.

I feel like the DDAs are pretty promising too. You don't necessarily have to just keep them sitting in your deployment zone all game -- in many games it probably makes sense to move them aggressively on turn 1 to leverage their flayers. The low power cannon is still pretty solid against many targets.


Definitely, but the destroyers wouldn't need the dynasty code; they have RR 1s already. I was just putting it on DDA and Pylon as a best case scenario for comparison.

Without the dynasty, DDA takes 35.45 points per unsaved wound.

Still a very solid unit that doesn't need external buffs. And I agree, the value on the destroyers is limited to one unit, so I'll likely only bring one unit of them.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 iGuy91 wrote:
I had a goofy sort of list idea using the Mephrit dynasty. Might be too expensive though

x4 Night Scythes
4x10 Immortals with Gauss Blasters

If one scythe gets shot down, use the strat to have 2 units pop out into rapid fire range. Dump 80 STR 5 AP -3 shots into targets of choice from up close where to hit modifiers won't be in effect.
Added bonus, Night Scythes got cheaper, and have that -1 to hit them to help keep them alive.

I'm imagining the rest of the list being long range shooting and scarab screens to keep them firing, and destroyers.
I used to run this in 5th and 6th ed, and had a lot of fun with it. Would this be the new incarnation?


Gauss Blasters lose against Tesla even vs MEQ where you can make use of the AP -3, so vs GEQ or god help Ork Boys or Gants it gets even worse. Or vs Stealers/Demons/Poxwalkers for that matter.

I'm not sure where you got that math as, when in Rapid Fire range, the Gauss Blasters entirely outdo the Tesla Carbines.


He is probably assuming a lot of buffs for the telsa.


In this case, I am not factoring in *Any* MWBD on the Immortals. Without that buff, the blasters are more efficient. I run in a very marine heavy meta, so can-openers are important.
In this case, I'd likely be running a destroyer lord with destroyers, and a cloak cryptek to support them

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/03/13 20:07:17


Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




I made a Sautekh Battalion + Nephrekh Outrider + Nephrekh LoW Aux, using the Pylon. I'd rather do Nihilakh on the Pylon but Nephrekh lets Toholk touch up on it.

List:
Spoiler:


Sautekh Battalion

HQ-
Imotekh the Stormlord (Warlord)
Lord w/ HPS, Resurrection Orb, Lightning Field
Cryptek w/ Chronometron, Staff of Light

Troops-
1x10 Immortals w/ Carbines
1x10 Immortals w/ Carbines
1x10 Immortals w/ Carbines


Nephrekh Outrider-

HQ-
Toholk the Blinded

Fast Attack
1x6 Destroyers
1x6 Scarabs
1x5 Scarabs


Nephrekh Superheavy Aux

1 Pylon

1999/2000
8 CP


I think it would work better in an armored list, either full Sautekh or Sautekh + Nihilakh as you would be able to leverage the Pylon's 5++ aura for your Doomsday Arks. However I want to try leveraging Nephrekh Destroyers in the list as well.

The Pylon really hurts other Lords of War, while the TVault performs much better against infantry, elite infantry and lighter vehicles/monsters. I prefer the Pylon but the TVault has been seriously improved in this leak.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

Also, math against 4+ saves (T4 or T3, so Scions or Scouts):

2/3 hits, 4/9 wounds, 4/9 damage on Gauss.
1 hit, 2/3 wounds, 4/9 damage on Tesla.
Exact same.

2+ Saves?

2/3 hits, 4/9 wounds, 8/27 damage on Gauss.
1 hit, 2/3 wounds, 2/9 or 6/27 damage on Tesla.

So, against 2+ and 3+ AND within Rapid Fire range AND assuming you aren't buffing them... Gauss wins by a small amount (3+) and a reasonable amount (2+).

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I'll admit im kind of sad they removed the BS from scarabs, especially since im hearing they didn't change the price. *sarc*

Kept holding out hope they'd consider giving a wargear option so each scarab had what equated to a tesla pistol when they fired together. RIP lightning bugs.

I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.  
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





So is everyone still really against Warriors? I've been building up a 1500pts list for an upcoming local tournament and it includes a couple Warrior units.

Also, do we know how the Voidreaper functions? Is it a free replacement for the Warscythe? Didn't see it mentioned in the points list.

Why Necrons? Well, we're just trying to sleep, and the galaxy is being too loud. So we're gonna go annihilate them real quick. I can self-identify with that. 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
So is everyone still really against Warriors? I've been building up a 1500pts list for an upcoming local tournament and it includes a couple Warrior units.

Also, do we know how the Voidreaper functions? Is it a free replacement for the Warscythe? Didn't see it mentioned in the points list.



*EDIT*

Oh, the relic is a warscythe replacement. STR 7 vs vehicles, Wounds on 2s vs everything else, -4 AP, D3 damage

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/03/13 20:19:32


Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




OK WHAT IF..... we use 5-immortals units?
Make 2 bataillons. 6 CP. 510 points spent.

I'm thinking you can disperse them all around the field. Have a few cryptek with them since it will need 4 HQ.

But guess is that people will tend to overshoot some units trying to whipe them all out, but will undershoot the rest. So if you have 1 immortal standing in 4 squads, that can be pretty serious RP!

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




There's no way voidreaper will be free
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free


Its an artifact. It totally will be. Well, you do have to pay for a warscythe, but that's not much.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free


Its an artifact. It totally will be. Well, you do have to pay for a warscythe, but that's not much.


Yeah, 11 pts for that statline is a steal

Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure where you got that math as, when in Rapid Fire range, the Gauss Blasters entirely outdo the Tesla Carbines.


Offensive - damage output vs MEQ (rapid fire range - Mephrit code active - no MWBD):
Gauss Blaster: 20 shots - 13,34 hits - 8,89 wounds - 7,41 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 13,34 base hits + (3,34 x 2 = 6,67 Tesla hits) = 20 total hits - 13,34 wounds - 6,67 damage

That is a strange definition of "entirely outdo". If your local meta is totally infested with SM ok, but apart from that... and the main problem is that without MWBD Immortal damage output is lacking anyways.
With MWBD those results would be 9,26 and 10. A difference worth talking about. Not sure if setting them up with flyers/Monolith is the way, when they cannot benefit from a big buff in the turn when it would be the most important.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 20:33:34


I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.  
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free

I don't believe there's been a single relic that has a points cost beyond that of the weapon to be replaced in 8th edition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 20:26:47


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 iGuy91 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free


Its an artifact. It totally will be. Well, you do have to pay for a warscythe, but that's not much.


Yeah, 11 pts for that statline is a steal


Honestly, I really don't know what they were thinking with free artifacts. It feels...wrong.
Like, I get that you can only have 1 and you need to burn CP to get more, but it still doesn't feel right.
I mean, I get to do all sorts of crazy gak for free? That's just nonsense.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Da W wrote:
OK WHAT IF..... we use 5-immortals units?
Make 2 bataillons. 6 CP. 510 points spent.

I'm thinking you can disperse them all around the field. Have a few cryptek with them since it will need 4 HQ.

But guess is that people will tend to overshoot some units trying to whipe them all out, but will undershoot the rest. So if you have 1 immortal standing in 4 squads, that can be pretty serious RP!



Well after you factor in the 4 HQ your looking at a minimum of 830. And your basically fielding 30 space marines. Thats way too many points for what your getting. CP's are good, but not at the expense of your list.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free

The Voidreaper is nasty but I'm liking that Rampage equivalent one too. Destroyer Lords with that are hitting a great amount of the time (the 3+ rerolling ones is superior to the 2+ when you have one more attack in the first place).

That said I'm leaning towards the ghetto Celestine we can make instead with it. I know Celestine is already just stupid good in the first place (and already needed a price bump) but it would be an obnoxious tool (mostly for tying units up to prevent them from shooting) and one we wouldn't have to invest a lot in.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut





How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 20:31:09


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 ThePie wrote:
How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.



That stratagem is a trap IMO. First I need to damage my target, then invest 2 CP? That on top of using MWBD, thats just way to many pricy pieces for some s5 ap-. On paper it could delete alot of GEQ until you realize nobody is taking squads larger then 10 anymore. EDIT I shouldn't say nobody, you still see large cultist mobs but that is such a poor return on investment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 20:38:42


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?


I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free

The Voidreaper is nasty but I'm liking that Rampage equivalent one too. Destroyer Lords with that are hitting a great amount of the time (the 3+ rerolling ones is superior to the 2+ when you have one more attack in the first place).

That said I'm leaning towards the ghetto Celestine we can make instead with it. I know Celestine is already just stupid good in the first place (and already needed a price bump) but it would be an obnoxious tool (mostly for tying units up to prevent them from shooting) and one we wouldn't have to invest a lot in.


Honestly there are some tasty character builts, the mephrit CCB sniper, the Novohk murder machine or the unkillable Dlord. I can't find a list I want to slot them into is the trouble. I want DS'ing destroyers but I also want wraiths in my list and a few Novohk leaning choices. I'll probably sit on it all for a while and see what fits. What is cool though is that there are so many options that seem viable. I don't think necrons will be dominant at all but I still like what I am seeing quite a bit.

   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






The new level of top tier is very much hanging up in the air. The March Big Faq has the power to bring all the top builds down a notch. That in turn would make the new Tau and Necrons much more competitive.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So with wraiths being able to duck out of combats and then charge back in after shooting it's not nearly as pressing that they take the pistol.

But comparatively, which do you think is the better shooting weapon for them? The pistol or the TransD beamer?

I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 Therion wrote:
The new level of top tier is very much hanging up in the air. The March Big Faq has the power to bring all the top builds down a notch. That in turn would make the new Tau and Necrons much more competitive.
This is my suspicion as well. I hope fpr the overall health of the game this is the case.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Red Corsair wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.



That stratagem is a trap IMO. First I need to damage my target, then invest 2 CP? That on top of using MWBD, thats just way to many pricy pieces for some s5 ap-. On paper it could delete alot of GEQ until you realize nobody is taking squads larger then 10 anymore. EDIT I shouldn't say nobody, you still see large cultist mobs but that is such a poor return on investment.

This isn't how I envision using it though. Tesla at +1 is reasonably effective against all kinds of stuff, especially some of the things that you most want dead right away. Tesla Immortals at +1 are just as good as Destroyers at +1, and better than a DDA +1 at long range, for killing something like Mortarion. It's not a stratagem you'll use every game, but Tesla benefits so much from hit bonuses that it gives you a lot of extra firepower against really big targets when you need it.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Lothmar wrote:
So with wraiths being able to duck out of combats and then charge back in after shooting it's not nearly as pressing that they take the pistol.

But comparatively, which do you think is the better shooting weapon for them? The pistol or the TransD beamer?


The pistol is 10pts cheaper and isn't a heavy weapon. I want to like the beamer but it's just bad if you don't roll a 6 to wound. And that risk isn't worth the extra 10pts for a chance of a mortal wound. I'll probably still play around with it but it's not a competitive option at 14pts.

 Psienesis wrote:
While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons
 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 Red Corsair wrote:

Honestly there are some tasty character builts, the mephrit CCB sniper, the Novohk murder machine or the unkillable Dlord. I can't find a list I want to slot them into is the trouble. I want DS'ing destroyers but I also want wraiths in my list and a few Novohk leaning choices. I'll probably sit on it all for a while and see what fits. What is cool though is that there are so many options that seem viable. I don't think necrons will be dominant at all but I still like what I am seeing quite a bit.


Novokh is the only viable code for Wraiths anyways? Unless I am missing something? I mean we can't teleport in everything with Nephrekh "Translocation Crypt". The code bonus is amazing for Wraiths, they cannot make use of any other bonus, and the "Adaptive Subroutines" stratagem is universal. For most lists you want some Scarabs as well, Novokh is the best for them too, so Novokh Outrider all the way?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





...I kind of just realized that while the crypteks cloak isnt necessarily gonna help our general units save for maybe some leadership~ it is kind of amazing since it works on our vehicles.

1d3 vehicle repair per cryptek
1d3 heal from spyders
1d3 potential regen instead of standard 1 if using Toholk.

With the right cover setup and a GP (mainly there for vehicle invul) a DDA artillery base seems like a pretty interesting narrative/theme match.

I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Dionysodorus wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.



That stratagem is a trap IMO. First I need to damage my target, then invest 2 CP? That on top of using MWBD, thats just way to many pricy pieces for some s5 ap-. On paper it could delete alot of GEQ until you realize nobody is taking squads larger then 10 anymore. EDIT I shouldn't say nobody, you still see large cultist mobs but that is such a poor return on investment.

This isn't how I envision using it though. Tesla at +1 is reasonably effective against all kinds of stuff, especially some of the things that you most want dead right away. Tesla Immortals at +1 are just as good as Destroyers at +1, and better than a DDA +1 at long range, for killing something like Mortarion. It's not a stratagem you'll use every game, but Tesla benefits so much from hit bonuses that it gives you a lot of extra firepower against really big targets when you need it.


Sorry didn't mean to insinuate you were going to misplay with it, just illustrating how strats like that can easily waste your CP's. I think your right on the money about having it in your bag of tricks for that right moment. You will also surprise your opponent more often using it that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lothmar wrote:
...I kind of just realized that while the crypteks cloak isnt necessarily gonna help our general units save for maybe some leadership~ it is kind of amazing since it works on our vehicles.

1d3 vehicle repair per cryptek
1d3 heal from spyders
1d3 potential regen instead of standard 1 if using Toholk.

With the right cover setup and a GP (mainly there for vehicle invul) a DDA artillery base seems like a pretty interesting narrative/theme match.


I also think this is pretty hilarious on a TVault.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 21:23:37


   
 
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