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HQ 1 - Jump Pack Captain: 100 pts - Jump pack , Plasma Pistol, Relic blade, Digital weapons, Artificer armor, Melta bomb - Total pts: 200

HQ 2 - Jump Pack Chaplain: 100 pts - Jump pack, Plasma pistol, Digital Weapons, Melta bomb - Total pts: 145


Troops 1 - Tactical Marines x10: 170 pts - Missle Launcher, Melta Gun - Total pts: 175
(Dedicated Transport) - Rhino: 35 pts - Total pts: 35

Troops 2 - Tactical Marines x10: 170 pts - Sgt. Power Weapon, Missle Launcher, Flamer - Total pts: 190


Heavy Support 1 - Devastator Sqaud x5: 90 pts - Missle launcher x3, Las cannon - Total pts: 170

Heavy Support 2 - Predator: - Dozer blade, Twin linked las cannon, Las cannon side sponsons - Total pts: 170

Heavy Support 3 (upgrade) - Chronus: 70 pts

Heavy Support 4 - Thunderfire Cannon: 100 pts


Elites 1 - Terminator Squad x5: - Assault Cannon x1 Total pts: 230

Elites 2 - Dreadnought: Multi Melta, Close combat weapon, storm bolter - Total pts: 105


Fast Attack 1 - Vangaurd Veterans X6: 118 pts - Sgt. Relic Blade, Sgt. Plasma pistol,
Sgt. Melta Bomb, Plasma pistols x4, Power Weapon x4 - Total pts: 330

Fast attack 2 - Bike squad x3: Sgt. combi-flamer, flamer x2 Total pts: 110 pts


The total for this list is 1995 (I think), but I will double check in a bit for accuracy. If it is accurate I will add in another melta bomb to the Vangaurds.
This list is the way it is because these are the models I currently have. It will be tweaked here and there once I add some new models to my collection.
The Chaplain and Captain will be Tagging along with the Vangaurds, hence the jump packs.

The captain is a bit uhh. Expensive?
I would say that you need more squads of anti-infantry.
You have really expensive squads. and your army will suffer from heavy tanks like land raiders and lots of infantry.

Asherian Command wrote:The captain is a bit uhh. Expensive?
I would say that you need more squads of anti-infantry.
You have really expensive squads. and your army will suffer from heavy tanks like land raiders and lots of infantry.

Lol, yes it will.



The bikes are setup the way they are to tackle groups of light infantry, obviously it's just a bandaid to my weak anti-horde list. The missiles in the dev squad will also
aid in the anti-hording, of course, another bandaid. However, the Vangaurd squad, although overkill, wiil be good at knocking out all kinds of infantry, so long as I keep them from getting
shot up too much by surrounding units.

I'm actually not too worried about heavy armor like Land Raiders. I think I will attach the spare melta bomb to the Bike Sgt. instead of the Vanguard unit, it'll be more useful there.

The problem with melta bombs imho is that if the vehicle is moving further than 6, you only have a 1 in 6 chance of hiting it, and you only get one attack... The dreadnought will help some, but because it's your only real anti-tank threat, you can count on tank heavy armies having a few AT weapons to fire at it, stunning it, or, more likely, destroying it before it gets into optimum range... This, culminated with the fact that your Dread is on foot, and has a threat range of 12", means that it seems highly unlikely that it will get to do anything.

You have a LOT in this list that will put hurt on light tanks... But not enough stuff to take out heavies.. AV14 will be anightmare for you..

Also... I see you only have 1 jump infantry unit, but 2 jump infantry leaders... are they both going to chill with the vanguard?

hope this helps

Lord PoPo wrote:The problem with melta bombs imho is that if the vehicle is moving further than 6, you only have a 1 in 6 chance of hiting it, and you only get one attack... The dreadnought will help some, but because it's your only real anti-tank threat, you can count on tank heavy armies having a few AT weapons to fire at it, stunning it, or, more likely, destroying it before it gets into optimum range... This, culminated with the fact that your Dread is on foot, and has a threat range of 12", means that it seems highly unlikely that it will get to do anything.

You have a LOT in this list that will put hurt on light tanks... But not enough stuff to take out heavies.. AV14 will be anightmare for you..

Also... I see you only have 1 jump infantry unit, but 2 jump infantry leaders... are they both going to chill with the vanguard?

hope this helps

Yes, this does help.

The Pred annilihator + Chronus is actually my main anti-armor unit, the others are just there to help bust armor when they can, the Vanguard will have three chances to knock out armor as well (3 melta bombs).

Also, yes, the Chaplain and the Vanguards will be taking long walks on the beach together.

First I must point out that your post is against forums rules. Please read the post at the top of this forum that clearly defines the rules for posting lists. Specifically, you may not post the point totals for individual upgrades and pieces of wargear, but unit totals are OK. Please remove the specific point totals or you are likely to get in trouble with the mods.

On to the list itself:

The entire list looks very fragile and lacks cohesive force. Your Heavy Support choices are insanely expensive for what they offer and I highly recommend changing them. Chronos should be ditched straight away, as he adds nothing significant for his point cost, and that absurdly expensive tri-lascannon predator could be broken down into a pair of AC/HB Predators for the same price. Ditch the Thunderfire Cannon as it is extremely vulnerable under the current artillery rules, and also drop the Devastators which are way overpriced for everyone but Space Wolves. That would give you enough points to field a Land Raider for those Terminators (which would be better off as Assault Terminators in that case)

Next, the Chaplain/Captain and the Vanguard Vets make for a poor combo. Vanguard Vets cannot perform a Heroic Intervention with attached characters, and without Descent of Angels they cannot reliably perform it anyway. It would honestly be better to just take a Captain with a Relic Blade and perhaps Meltabombs along with a normal Assault Squad just to add more bodies to the unit and skip the Vanguards entirely, though Assault Marines make for a poor choice in 5th edition as well. There are better melee options that aren't nearly as fragile (like the above mentioned Assault Terminators, which could use an attached character like a Chaplain or a Librarian....)

Your infantry needs to be bolstered a bit to be honest. You lack target saturation and firepower, and with one of your Tactical Squads on foot it won't be difficult for an opponent to rush it with a melee unit like Assault Terminators or Blood Angels Assault Marines and steal an objective. Having at least one more unit of Tactical Marines would be a good idea, and they should all have Rhinos for mobility. Honestly for 35 points they are just too good to pass up if you are going to just fire the Missile Launcher at range each turn, and if you intend to rush them forward they need it anyway. It adds flexibility and durability which you desperately need.

Consider the following:

Librarian (Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Avenger, Null Zone) - 140
Chaplain Cassius - 125
5 Assault Terminators (5x Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields) - 200
5 Assault Terminators (5x Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields) - 200
Dedicated Land Raider (Extra Armor) - 265
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannons) - 125
10 Tactical marines (Missile Launcher, Meltagun, Rhino) - 210
10 Tactical marines (Missile Launcher, Flamer, Rhino) - 205
5 Scouts (Missile Launcher, 4x Sniper Rifles) - 85
Land Raider (Multi-Melta, Extra Armor) - 275
Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsions) - 85
Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsions) - 85
Total 2,000

See how much more can be added to the list simply by making your wargear more efficient?

That's just a suggestion of course so feel free to use what you like. Hope that helps!

Aldarionn wrote:First I must point out that your post is against forums rules. Please read the post at the top of this forum that clearly defines the rules for posting lists. Specifically, you may not post the point totals for individual upgrades and pieces of wargear, but unit totals are OK. Please remove the specific point totals or you are likely to get in trouble with the mods.

You are 110% correct on that sir, thanks for pointing that out! It's been a while since I have gone over the forum rules, that's one I forgot about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aldarionn wrote:

Librarian (Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Avenger, Null Zone) - 140
Chaplain Cassius - 125
5 Assault Terminators (5x Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields) - 200
5 Assault Terminators (5x Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields) - 200
Dedicated Land Raider (Extra Armor) - 265
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannons) - 125
10 Tactical marines (Missile Launcher, Meltagun, Rhino) - 210
10 Tactical marines (Missile Launcher, Flamer, Rhino) - 205
5 Scouts (Missile Launcher, 4x Sniper Rifles) - 85
Land Raider (Multi-Melta, Extra Armor) - 275
Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsions) - 85
Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsions) - 85
Total 2,000

See how much more can be added to the list simply by making your wargear more efficient?

That's just a suggestion of course so feel free to use what you like. Hope that helps!

That's a very nice list you have written up. My biggest issue with it is the amount of money it would cost to almost completely change my army (the reason my list is the way it is, is because these are the models I own) and my second but smaller issue with it is that it's almost just like every other Marine list I see out there, which is no fun...to me anyway.

I did that Vanguards instead of assault marines to be completely different. I also don't think of them as Vanguards without "heroic intervention", I think of them more as uber assault marines.

The Vanguards are also my answer to any army using TH/SS Terminators.

I will however be picking up another Rhino sooner or later and subbing out some stuff to fit in another transport for the second marines squad. I also have a 3rd set of Tac Marines to build/paint that will be subbed into the army when the situation calls for it.

Lastly, I think the cost for Chronus is a bit high, I'd like to see him around the 55 pt area, but to me he is still worth it at his current points cost. Not just for the Higher BS, but mostly for his ability to negate crew stunned and shaken results. About 50% of all damage results are either stunned or shaken. Chronus on the other hand just keeps firing away, which is important if your job is to stop armor.

BullDog71ss wrote:
That's a very nice list you have written up. My biggest issue with it is the amount of money it would cost to almost completely change my army (the reason my list is the way it is, is because these are the models I own) and my second but smaller issue with it is that it's almost just like every other Marine list I see out there, which is no fun...to me anyway.

could you list the models you have currently?

BullDog71ss wrote:
I did that Vanguards instead of assault marines to be completely different. I also don't think of them as Vanguards without "heroic intervention", I think of them more as uber assault marines.

The Vanguards are also my answer to any army using TH/SS Terminators.

your squad, against... say.. a squad of 2 LC and 6TH/SS terms (320 points), while charging, and getting to shoot and all that good stuff (assuming that both squads are intact) would do the following damage

Plasma pistols: 2/3*5/6*1/3=10/54*(5) = 50/54=25/27

then the charge:
PW: 1/2*1/2*1/3=1/12(16)=36/27
RB: 1/2*5/6*1/3=5/36 =aprox 1/6=4/24

if you add all this together, you get 61/27 + 4/24 which is about 2.42 wounds

counter assault:
LC: 1/2*3/4= 3/8*(6)=18/8= 2 1/9
TH:1/2*5/6=5/12(8)=40/12=3 4/12

the terms will inflict on average will inflict 5 wounds on you... meaning that only your sarge will be left. If you include the chaplain, your squad will kill about 5, plus about another kill from the chaplain himself. The captain, in all likelyhood, will finish off the other two.

That's pretty good, Annihilating an entire squad of termies in a single round will definitely mess with your opponent's head... But like as not, the next turn will see your 675 point squad demolished by concentrated fire..

Don't get me wrong though... Vanguard can be used, to great effect, but they are very difficult to keep alive long enough for them to do some damage, not to mention their point sink. If it helps any, i've never seen a vanguard squad not use it's intervention thingy and still be able to get it's points back.

BullDog71ss wrote:
I will however be picking up another Rhino sooner or later and subbing out some stuff to fit in another transport for the second marines squad. I also have a 3rd set of Tac Marines to build/paint that will be subbed into the army when the situation calls for it.

What people have said about the need for more troops is spot on. And footslogging is a pretty bad idea almost always.

Lord PoPo wrote:

BullDog71ss wrote:
That's a very nice list you have written up. My biggest issue with it is the amount of money it would cost to almost completely change my army (the reason my list is the way it is, is because these are the models I own) and my second but smaller issue with it is that it's almost just like every other Marine list I see out there, which is no fun...to me anyway.

could you list the models you have currently?

BullDog71ss wrote:
I did that Vanguards instead of assault marines to be completely different. I also don't think of them as Vanguards without "heroic intervention", I think of them more as uber assault marines.

The Vanguards are also my answer to any army using TH/SS Terminators.

your squad, against... say.. a squad of 2 LC and 6TH/SS terms (320 points), while charging, and getting to shoot and all that good stuff (assuming that both squads are intact) would do the following damage

Plasma pistols: 2/3*5/6*1/3=10/54*(5) = 50/54=25/27

then the charge:
PW: 1/2*1/2*1/3=1/12(16)=36/27
RB: 1/2*5/6*1/3=5/36 =aprox 1/6=4/24

if you add all this together, you get 61/27 + 4/24 which is about 2.42 wounds

counter assault:
LC: 1/2*3/4= 3/8*(6)=18/8= 2 1/9
TH:1/2*5/6=5/12(8)=40/12=3 4/12

the terms will inflict on average will inflict 5 wounds on you... meaning that only your sarge will be left. If you include the chaplain, your squad will kill about 5, plus about another kill from the chaplain himself. The captain, in all likelyhood, will finish off the other two.

That's pretty good, Annihilating an entire squad of termies in a single round will definitely mess with your opponent's head... But like as not, the next turn will see your 675 point squad demolished by concentrated fire..

Don't get me wrong though... Vanguard can be used, to great effect, but they are very difficult to keep alive long enough for them to do some damage, not to mention their point sink. If it helps any, i've never seen a vanguard squad not use it's intervention thingy and still be able to get it's points back.

BullDog71ss wrote:
I will however be picking up another Rhino sooner or later and subbing out some stuff to fit in another transport for the second marines squad. I also have a 3rd set of Tac Marines to build/paint that will be subbed into the army when the situation calls for it.

What people have said about the need for more troops is spot on. And footslogging is a pretty bad idea almost always.

The Vanguard as I will use them will have the same survival rate of any normal jump unit. That units use will be carefully calculated because of course I do not want to just throw them away needlessly. They will be used to keep an enemy away from an area of the board I do not want them on, or to hunt out major threats on the table. I can also decide to "intervention" them without the HQ's attached if I feel that is needed, and join the HQ's up with them later. It all depends on the army I will be playing.


I currently own:
-Jump Chaplain
-Jump Captain
-3 sqauds Tac Marines
-1 Dev squad
-Term squad
-Thunderfire cannon
-3 bikes
-Vanguards
-Predator
-Rhino
-Dreadnought
-Chronus

If you could perhaps get a few more Terminators, a Librarian and a unit of Sternguard or some Dreadnoughts you could do a relatively effective mechanized gun line. 3x Tactical Squads in Rhinos, Sternguard in a Rhino with combi weapons, a large unit of Terminators with 2x Cyclones and perhaps 2x Chainfists, a Terminator Librarian with Gate and Avenger, supported by Predators woould make for a great list. The major problem with your design is that Jump Infantry is just too expensive and not durable enough unless you play Blood Angels.

I firmly believe in using the codex that best fits your army design so if you want to do Jumpers, perhaps give Blood Angels a shot even if youre painted as Ultramarines. I run my Space Wolves with the Vanilla codex from time to time because I like to run Assault Terminators but for Space Wolves a unit of 5 is 315 points instead of 200. Thats more than a 50% price jump! Run what you like, but use the rules that will give you the best result

BullDog71ss wrote:HQ 1 - Jump Pack Captain: 100 pts - Jump pack , Plasma Pistol, Relic blade, Digital weapons, Artificer armor, Melta bomb - Total pts: 200

HQ 2 - Jump Pack Chaplain: 100 pts - Jump pack, Plasma pistol, Digital Weapons, Melta bomb - Total pts: 145


Troops 1 - Tactical Marines x10: 170 pts - Missle Launcher, Melta Gun - Total pts: 175
(Dedicated Transport) - Rhino: 35 pts - Total pts: 35

Troops 2 - Tactical Marines x10: 170 pts - Sgt. Power Weapon, Missle Launcher, Flamer - Total pts: 190


Heavy Support 1 - Devastator Sqaud x5: 90 pts - Missle launcher x3, Las cannon - Total pts: 170

Heavy Support 2 - Predator: - Dozer blade, Twin linked las cannon, Las cannon side sponsons - Total pts: 170

Heavy Support 3 (upgrade) - Chronus: 70 pts

Heavy Support 4 - Thunderfire Cannon: 100 pts


Elites 1 - Terminator Squad x5: - Assault Cannon x1 Total pts: 230

Elites 2 - Dreadnought: Multi Melta, Close combat weapon, storm bolter - Total pts: 105


Fast Attack 1 - Vangaurd Veterans X6: 118 pts - Sgt. Relic Blade, Sgt. Plasma pistol,
Sgt. Melta Bomb, Plasma pistols x4, Power Weapon x4 - Total pts: 330

Fast attack 2 - Bike squad x3: Sgt. combi-flamer, flamer x2 Total pts: 110 pts

Sorry, but is too expensive this list, maybe you can represent another troop in exchange of the relic weapon (do not confer another attack in) and the vanguard veterans, you always can ask for some who loan his figures (i don`t know if the exact word, sorry)

BullDog71ss wrote:HQ 1 - Jump Pack Captain: 100 pts - Jump pack , Plasma Pistol, Relic blade, Digital weapons, Artificer armor, Melta bomb - Total pts: 200

HQ 2 - Jump Pack Chaplain: 100 pts - Jump pack, Plasma pistol, Digital Weapons, Melta bomb - Total pts: 145


Troops 1 - Tactical Marines x10: 170 pts - Missle Launcher, Melta Gun - Total pts: 175
(Dedicated Transport) - Rhino: 35 pts - Total pts: 35

Troops 2 - Tactical Marines x10: 170 pts - Sgt. Power Weapon, Missle Launcher, Flamer - Total pts: 190


Heavy Support 1 - Devastator Sqaud x5: 90 pts - Missle launcher x3, Las cannon - Total pts: 170

Heavy Support 2 - Predator: - Dozer blade, Twin linked las cannon, Las cannon side sponsons - Total pts: 170

Heavy Support 3 (upgrade) - Chronus: 70 pts

Heavy Support 4 - Thunderfire Cannon: 100 pts


Elites 1 - Terminator Squad x5: - Assault Cannon x1 Total pts: 230

Elites 2 - Dreadnought: Multi Melta, Close combat weapon, storm bolter - Total pts: 105


Fast Attack 1 - Vangaurd Veterans X6: 118 pts - Sgt. Relic Blade, Sgt. Plasma pistol,
Sgt. Melta Bomb, Plasma pistols x4, Power Weapon x4 - Total pts: 330

Fast attack 2 - Bike squad x3: Sgt. combi-flamer, flamer x2 Total pts: 110 pts


The total for this list is 1995 (I think), but I will double check in a bit for accuracy. If it is accurate I will add in another melta bomb to the Vangaurds.
This list is the way it is because these are the models I currently have. It will be tweaked here and there once I add some new models to my collection.
The Chaplain and Captain will be Tagging along with the Vangaurds, hence the jump packs.

Its a bit on the expensive side, your main hq is quite expensive and their is not really a point on letting him wear a jump pack as he will upfront with the assault, better give him terminator armour and and gets the nice 2+ SV. I am personally not fond of jump pack infantry s i do disprove them. You are playing ultramarines thus you should be playing in a bit of a more ranged stance then getting close up and dirty, anyways its a bit to expensive for what you have purchased.

Captain is pricey - for less points you could take Shrike.

Looking at your options, I would look to form a decent 1,500 - 1,750 point backbone from your army rather than trying to stretch it to 2,000. First priority in new models would appear to be another rhino.

Your one pred with chronus is 240 points - you could have 2 straight las preds for less cost and more flexibility or even a land raider for 10 points more - somethign to consider when you're running termies!

Drop chronus, the sponsons, the bikes and then you have more like a 1,750 list and give youself options for what to take with the extra 250.

Turning the jumpers into normal is as easy as switching out the packs.

Get into a battle bunker and give your list a run through against some opponents.

For my money though you need melta in a few spots, lascannons just dont cut it because even on pen you can still roll multiple low rolls and without that +1 its only good to hold up enemy elements ie rhinos full of zerkers, not destroy them.

I rate the thunderfire, especially if its in the same fortified ruins as the devestators. I used one in a tournament and every game it earned its points back. Enemies hated it and those who knew what it could do spent heaps of fire to take it out. Against hordes who just want to surge forward it just hammers them.