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Hi all,

I've been playing orks for ages now (since around 2000) and have just recently decided to take up another army - Dark Eldar. Very different style of army to say the least. I've come up with a few lists, but they all seem to come up short. I'm looking for advice on how to build a dark eldar list.

With orks, I for the most part subscribe to the philosophy of "Do one thing and do it awesome". So, if you're taking trukks, take all trukks. If you're going dreadbash, take all kans and a couple dreads. Etc, etc. Do dark eldar work this way? For instance, should I shove everything into raiders / leave everything walking, or is it viable, or even preferable, to have a mix of mounted and foot units?

I've always liked the idea of a wych/arena army, and have put together my idea of an 1850 point fast, champions of the arena style army. I'm not looking for something to table opponents in a tournament, but I'm also trying to avoid a complete fiasco as well.

Duke Sliscus – 150
Baron Sathonyx - 105

8 Kabilite Trueborn w/ 6 Shard Carbines, 2 Splinter Cannons, Plasma and Haywire Grenades, led by Dracon w/ Agonizer w/ Raider w/ Shock Prow, Enhanced Aethersails, Splinter Racks, Night Shield - 283

10 Wyches w/ 2 Shardnet/Impalers, Haywire Grenades led by Hekatrix w/ Agonizer w/ Raider w/ Shock Prow, Enhanced Aethersails, Chain Snare, Night Shield - 255
10 Wyches w/ 2 Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades led by Hekatrix w/ Agonizer w/ Raider w/ Shock Prow, Enhanced Aethersails, Chain Snare, Night Shield – 255
8 Hellions led by Helliarch w/ Stun Claw, Phantasm Grenade Launcher – 163
8 Hellions led by Helliarch w/ Agonizer, Phantasm Grenade Launcher – 173

3 Reaver Jetbikes w/ Cluster Caltrops, led by Arena Champion w/ Agonizer – 116
3 Reaver Jetbikes w/ Cluster Caltrops, led by Arena Champion w/ Agonizer - 116

Ravager w/ Flicker Field – 115
Ravager w/ Flicker Field – 115

The basic idea is that every unit can benefit from the duke's combat drug boost, every unit is extremely fast, and if need be, everything but the jetbikes has the option to deep strike. Plus it has the bonus that everything in here has models that I really, really like (save the two characters, who I can convert).

On the down side, I'm worried that mech will absolutely violate this list. I'm wondering if I should drop the caltrops on the bikes and either take blasters/heat lances, or give the hekatrixes grenade launchers to assist with assaults into cover.

So, please let me know if I have completely missed the point of the DE, or if my list just needs some minor adjustments to make it work. I started this post off more in the vein of tactics, but if the mods feel it would fit better in the Army Lists forum, chuck it there.

-Tyr

Yeah, this is really an army list, not a tactical question so much.

Well, as a longtime both Ork and Dark Eldar player....I do think you're missing the point. :(

Point in case: A raider is Armour 10, open topped. It costs 60 points. It is GOING to go down in flames when it gets shot at. You've added 25 points worth of wargear to a vehicle that....is *going* to get burned out of the sky. Worse, you've got a 10 point addition (Nightshields) on raiders full of wyches - what's the point? Are you going to sit back out of range and hope to say *lala, too far to shoot me* with wyches? Or are you going to get up close and personal? If you're sitting out of range, there should *not* be wyches in there. If you're getting up close and personal, a nightshield isn't going to help you a whit.

Dark Eldar benefit from the motto, "The best defense is a good offense." If you don't want stuff shooting at you, fething kill it. Dark Eldar have always been a glass cannon army; fragile but hard hitting. The new codex emphasizes that even more. Still hard hitting, but less ranged threats (MSU darklance spam), with more medium to short range threats to compensate. That's the strength of our codex - the ability to put more targets on the table that are viable threats than an opponent can handle.

The whole "Heavy bolters can't shoot me now" is ridiculous because no one packs their armies full of heavy bolters. Missile launchers, railguns, autocannons, and lascannons can both range you easily, and all the 36" guns....(chimera multilasers for example) - if you're in range to shoot them and have a nightshield - they can move up 6" and shoot the crap out of you back. Go cheap and effective. Don't try beefing your units out with ablative wounds, or protective wargear, or things that will keep you alive. At the end of the day your vehicles are AV10 open-topped, and most of your models have 5+ or 6+ armour saves. When a wych transport gets burned out of the sky (and they will explode quite often), half of them are gonna die. Don't make that more painful than it has to be.

Your reavers are another issue....what do you want them for? You've got some *very* expensive fast moving close combat models there. Are you *really* going to throw those guys into close combat with their 5+ armour save to use the Agonizers? And if you are, what are the caltrops for? And even if you take blasters or heat lances, do you expect that three models with (at best 3+ cover saves) are going to last very long? Either you're moving flat out and getting a 3+ cover save, or you're moving 12" or less to use blasters or heat lances. In one scenario they're useless - in the other scenario they're dead the next turn by default.

You should play Dark Eldar like you should be playing orks. Cheap units, oversaturation of cheap targets. With Orks, you're overpowering the enemy with your cheap bodycount; with DE you should be overpowering them with your cheap shooting or your cheap close combat nastiness. You haven't really got either.

Then again.....I'm not sure if you're after a competitive list. You might be totally after a fluffy list. If you're planning on tournament play, I would expect this list to get curb-stomped off the table every game by even the most junior gamers.
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Alright, with the face-beating of your list down, here's my short suggestions.

1. If you want wyches, take them in units of 5 in venoms with dual splinter cannons, or in raiders with 10 models. Haywire grenades got cheaper in the new codex, so are a must - especially since your strategy against Guard is going to be hoping to go first, hoping they deploy on the line, then moving up 12", disembarking, fleeting, then assaulting chimeras with haywire grenades across the biggest line you can. There's a lot of hoping in there. =p

2. Drop the shardnets and impalers. Wych weapons were great; every model in the opposing unit lost the benefit of close combat weapons. As it is, you're only going to get two models with that benefit, and it only affects models in close combat with them. And decent players are going to make sure that those models are only in base with one model to minimize their impact. If you insist on decking out your wyches, choose another option. Hydra Gauntlets or Razorflails.

3. This one isn't solid advice because I don't have the experience with the new codex to back it up, but why don't you consider taking haemonculi with your wych units in the raiders? When a raider goes down, instead of just a 6+ armour save, you'd get rerolls for a 4+ feel no pain....and have 50% more survivability. Not only that, but you can tack in a liquifier, or God help your opponent a Shattershard. Or even a Casket of Flensing. You have to keep in mind that wyches do NOT pwn face. They tie units up to keep them from shooting at you. Longfangs threatening my vehicles? I dump a unit of wyches into them to keep them busy for 1-3 turns while I deal with the rest of the army. Terminators? Enjoy some wyches. They're a tie-up unit, not a killing unit - treat them appropriately.

4. While there's nothing wrong with the Duke, if you're going to use him you *need* to theme an army around him. As it is, you've split half your theme with the Duke and half your theme with the Baron. If you have any hope of being effective, you've got to pick one. I'd suggest going with the Baron. The Duke doesn't guarantee you good drugs, just a reroll. Turning poisoned 4+ into 3+ for one unit isn't impressing anyone and you're paying 150 points for that. Deep-striking your army would be a huge mistake; raiders have a significant footprint (for mishaps), reavers don't have an invul save (for dangerous terrain tests when you scatter), and unless you have a loaded scatter dice....not to mention that when you deep strike your wych raiders the wyches can't assault anyway. Unless you would deep strike along your rear table edge or at range (pointless) to try avoiding fire (won't work) deep-striking THIS Dark Eldar army is never going to benefit you. Why don't you take out the Duke? He's fun and capable, but not for the list you want to run.

There's a lot more I'd like to say, but its 12:40 AM and Mrs. Dash is pestering me to go to bed.

Thanks Dash. I'll take your advice to heart and do a redesign!

-Tyr

just dont do it.

yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:just dont do it.

What?

yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:just dont do it.

Don't do what? Get into DE, or...?