Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think the new DE codex is balanced and almost any unit can be used competitively and that not every unit is needed to make a competitive list.

I've been kicking this one around in my head and I think it's solid but I'd appreciate some critiques as well.

HQ

Duke Siliscus

Haemonculous - Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous - Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous - Liquifier Scissorhand

Troops

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Warriors x20 - 2 dark lances

Fast Attack

Reaver Jetbikes x3 - Heat Lance

Reaver Jetbikes x3 - Heat Lance

Heavy Support

Ravager - Flickerfields, Shock Prow

Ravager - Flickerfields, Shock Prow

Ravager - Flickerfields, Shock Prow

I think tank shocking is part of what makes mech so difficult to deal with and when things get desparate turning a paper airplane into a str 10 missile that might actually survive isn't something to ignore either. I also have the option of deepstriking anything and with all but 1 wych squad starting with fnp they're not as afraid of an exploding transport as they would be normally. With the aether sails they should be able to get close enough to make use of that blast pistol reliably and if the poor unfortunate unit is out of it's transport already they can suck down a liquifier before getting charged. The shard net is for some additional damage resistance.

That's all for this list, thanks in advance and if there are any questions feel free to ask!

Why on the webway would you want your ravagers to have a shock prow? Makes them easy pickings to anything from rapid fire guns to meltas. Also if your warriors are on objective duty I'd rather get splinter cannons since it seems you have plenty of anti tank. If reavers are there for anti tank maybe scourges would fare better for that role (although they would have to be one unit I'd admit to take specials of any kind)

I gave them shock prows because at the end of it I had 16 points left and thought it would give me some options for contesting midfield objectives late game if one of them happens to make it that long.

The scourges is a good point but I have no models for them and it may be a consideration when they bring out new ones, until then it's bike time

Imo, I would make the reavers 1 unit with 2 heat lances. a unit of three feels too fragile for me.

I'm not sold on combining the units, yes they're fragile but they'll be almost as fragile together as they would be apart. I think I'd rather take my chances and shoot at 2 targets potentially or save one for last turn objective contesting.

I have not found the Due to be at all effective, either to DS (Radiers are large ) 20 3+ to wound shooting - that doesn't have the effective range etc. But not sure what you'd replace him with - but with the many sails, why need to DS?

Hmm I see what you're saying chris. What do you guys think if the list was revised to this:

HQ

Duke Siliscus

Haemonculous - Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous - Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous - Liquifier Scissorhand

Troops

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Wyches x9 - Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Blast Pistol, raider, flickerfields, shock prow, Aether Sails

Warriors x9 - Blaster, Sybarite, blast pistol, Raider, Flicker Fields, Splinter Racks, Shock Prow

Fast Attack

Reaver Jetbikes x3 - Heat Lance, Cluster Caltrops

Reaver Jetbikes x3 - Heat Lance, Cluster Caltrops

Heavy Support

Ravager - Flickerfields

Ravager - Flickerfields

Ravager - Flickerfields

I think I would still want the duke to hop from the warriors to a wych raider but at least in this configuration they're more mobile and with the splinter racks could possibly make good use of their 3+ poison. Also It would give me a better reserve game I think? The cluster caltrops were added because I had 25 points at the end of cutting down the warrior squad to warrior/raider and then I just removed the shock prows from the ravagers. If you can think of a better way to spend those 40 points I'm open to suggestions.

I like it, one change I might make would be to trade the prow on the warrior boat to a NS. I'd like to have one unit of wracks personally, but that might void you no-elites thinking depending on how much they counted as troops

HQ

Duke Siliscus

Haemonculous – Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous – Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous – Liquifier Scissorhand

Troops

Wyches x9 – Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Wyches x9 – Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Wyches x9 – Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Wyches x9 – Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Warriors x5 – Blaster, Sybarite, blast pistol, Raider, Flicker Fields, Shock Prow

Fast Attack

Reaver Jetbikes x6 – Heat Lancex2

Reaver Jetbikes x6 – Heat Lancex2

Heavy Support

Ravager – Flickerfields

Ravager – Flickerfields

Ravager – Flickerfields

I got some more suggestions and I was thinking this might be another way to go with the larger reaver jetbike squads being able to be more of a threat in both their flyover attack and a combined credible threat to things like longfangs in CC.

The idea behind minimizng the warrior squad is that when the duke attaches they are then held in reserve and used like a MM land speeder for deep striking. Then the warriors and duke will disembark and if withink 6" drop 3 lance shots into one target while the raider drops a 4th into something else, then my opponent is forced to dedicate fire into 2 units (hopefully distracting from my wych squads) or else they start messing other things up as the duke is capable on his own.

I dropped the aether sails as it was also pointed out that I don't need the extra movement in 1 phase to really get wherever I could want to be going as 36" with a 2" disembark and up to 6" charge range is enough to get nearly anywhere even in spearhead.

personally I feel it's their troops and Transports that make them great, elites are icing on the cake. I like the list and feel it would do well

Just curious, why aethersails at all?

Sails are a 5pt upgrade, I’ve found to be really helpful in minimizing risk, but as MrDrumMachine said it's possible to go almost anywhere over two turns with a 36". I personally am quite picky with movement, so I find that adding on average 7" to my turbo boost complete gravy, it allows for better positioning away from lines of fire and some more flexibility when pivoting to avoid terrain checks and the like - I believe that I easily make more than 5pts worth per raider difference in assaults with this superior positioning.

ChrisCP wrote:Sails are a 5pt upgrade, I’ve found to be really helpful in minimizing risk, but as MrDrumMachine said it's possible to go almost anywhere over two turns with a 36". I personally am quite picky with movement, so I find that adding on average 7" to my turbo boost complete gravy, it allows for better positioning away from lines of fire and some more flexibility when pivoting to avoid terrain checks and the like - I believe that I easily make more than 5pts worth per raider difference in assaults with this superior positioning.

I could see the use in extending the flat-out move from 24" to a possible total of 36" for better positioning. As for assaulting etc. the aethersail rules say that you cannot disembark or shoot the turn you use them.

Is this meant for competitive play or fun play?

Your lack of anti-tank is concerning in terms of playing against mechanized lists. In 2,000 points, it is very reasonable to expect Eldar players to have 7-9 vehicles, guard players to have 12-15 vehicles, and marine players (razor spam) to have 7-10 vehicles.

Each of your raiders has a 36" dark lance, your footslogging warriors have another two, two short range weapons on your reavers, and 3 lances apiece on your ravagers. If you get to go first, you have the ability to engage 8 different targets at range.

You can expect two of your raiders to whiff, three to hit; lets be generous and presume both warrior lances hit, and 2/3 of each ravager hit.

Half of those lances will bounce, giving you 2-3 results with your lances and...2-3 results with your ravagers. Equally spread between the different damage table results....you can expect to neutralize 2 for a turn, weapon destroy something, immobilize another, and wreck/explode 1-2.

Your Heat lances won't be a factor until at least turn two.

Your alpha strike has taken two vehicles down, neutralized two others, and damaged two others - and that is all presuming you roll *very* well - not statistically or below statistically.

In exchange, you're going to get a withering return of multi-lasers, lascannons, missile launchers, autocannons, assault cannons....depending on which mechanized list you're playing against. Having played DE for much longer than the new codex coming out (and doing quite well with them), Dark Eldar are a glass cannon - you CANNOT survive a fight of attrition. I played a wych cult; gave my entire wych army haywire grenades, two blasters per squad, three units of warriors with a lance inside a raider with a lance.....and hoped for some 12" charges on my combat drugs, and *still* felt light on anti-tank - because when our vehicles get hit, chances are much higher of exploding, which is going to ruin the contents. And if you're planning on moving flat out with those wyches for assault positioning, you're decreasing your anti-tank fire even more.

No lie, you're in a tough spot. But you *must* do something; trueborn with blasters, trueborn with lances, haywire grenades on your wyches, subbing out the reavers for something much more anti-tank capable from start to finish.....you need to do something - because this list surviving against a mechanized opponent is a pipe dream, and on the competitive level, there is a *heavy* assortment of mechanized lists.

Well, why not, but it can be tough.
As elite units that are useful I see Incubi (need an Archon with pgl) and Trueborn.
The latter (with blasters) are too good to be left out in competive play as there are many mech armies in this environment.

HQ

Duke Siliscus

Haemonculous – Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous – Liquifier Scissorhand

Haemonculous – Liquifier Scissorhand

Troops

Wyches x9 – Haywire Grenades, Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Wyches x9 – Haywire Grenades, Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Wyches x9 – Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Warriors x5 – Blaster, Sybarite, blast pistol, Raider, Flicker Fields, Shock Prow, Grisly Trophies

Fast Attack

Reaver Jetbikes x6 – Heat Lancex2

Reaver Jetbikes x6 – Heat Lancex2

Reaver Jetbikes x6 – Heat Lancex2

Heavy Support

Ravager

Ravager

Ravager

I see what you're saying dash, I wonder what you would think of this iteration of the list then? I dropped 1 wych squad in favor of another jetbike squad with 2 heat lances and to give 2 squads haywire grenades. I'm not sure where to put the pain tokens at the beginning of the game as it may be preferable to stick each jetbike squad with a pain token in the beginning rather than a wych squad if I'm going up against a more heavily mechanized force and in order to remove them they'll have to be hit with str 6+ at least. While that's easy enough to do with IG it's not as simple for SM or SW and should let the jetbikes live long enough to pop a couple tanks.

I dropped the flickerfields on the ravagers as I think it will be easy enough to screen it for a 4+ cover save using the other 4 raiders while still opening a lane of fire to their selected target for that turn (also I miscaluclated how much the haemonculi cost and was 30 points over )

I'm a little worried about the troop situation at this point but I think the anti-tank has been bumped up more than a fair amount. With 2 rolls on the drugs chart my odds of getting something that will either allow my wyches to quickly get a pain token through fighting or everything starting with a pain token seems like it should help to balance out the fragility though without having playtested I'm still uncertain. Further thoughts?

Edit: While I agree the heat lances won't be a factor until turn 2 I don't think 6 of them can be ignored, especially when I can drop FnP on them turn 1 and force them to be dealt with or 3 more tanks are going to be in great danger, however would dropping them for blasters be preferable? I think I can squeeze some points somewhere to make it work.

Edit2: Doing some quick points moving I can drop the sybarite from the warrior squad and have the duke fill that role and the grisly trohpies to then give the remaining wych squad haywire grenades as well as 2 squads of reavers blasters instead of heat lances if that would end up being significantly better.

I was just working on a list that looks very similar to yours. My take on it was;

Duke Sliscus
2 Haemonculi with agonizers and liquefiers

3 Trueborn with blasters in a raider with FF

2 x 9 Wyches with 1 weapon, hekatrix with agonizer, raiders with FF
2 x 5 Wracks with a liquefier, venoms with extra splinter cannon
20 Warriors with 2 dark lances and a Syabite

2 x 5 Scourges with 2 heat lances

3 x Ravager with FF and NS

I think that heat lances are very valuable. Dark lances are by definition always mediocre against enemy armor, which is a very good thing. But dash is right. Statistically, you need a lot of them. They are very unreliable if you roll poorly, but inversely they can be very clutch; I play tested my brother's Iguard and had about 5 dark light weapons pointed at this valkyerie to bring it down, and the first shot from a raider did the job!

I digress; heat lances give you a level of confidence that dark light weapons cannot supply. In this list I will always deep strike my scourges. I'll position them somewhere between 6 and 9 inches from the side or back armor of an enemy tank that I simply do not want to have on the table any more, and there is a very good chance that I will have my way. Within 9, heat lances have a higher chance to penetrate than dark lances for all armor except 14. They also have ap 1, so each penetration has a 1/2 chance to destroy instead of 1/3. They are especially valuable against eldar holofields, since dark light weapons have a very annoying time destroying them.

I think that after seeing your list there is a good chance I will change those scourges for reavers. Instead of deep striking, they can turbo boost on the first turn, and sure they might die, but they'll soak a lot of fire doing so. Plus, they have combat drugs, which in a Sliscus list means there is a 1/3 chance you will have the option to give them a pain token to start the game. Plus, they're sexy models, but something tells me the scourges are going to wow us as well.

ThePhish wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:Sails are a 5pt upgrade, I’ve found to be really helpful in minimizing risk, but as MrDrumMachine said it's possible to go almost anywhere over two turns with a 36". I personally am quite picky with movement, so I find that adding on average 7" to my turbo boost complete gravy, it allows for better positioning away from lines of fire and some more flexibility when pivoting to avoid terrain checks and the like - I believe that I easily make more than 5pts worth per raider difference in assaults with this superior positioning.

I could see the use in extending the flat-out move from 24" to a possible total of 36" for better positioning. As for assaulting etc. the aethersail rules say that you cannot disembark or shoot the turn you use them.

Can't disembark or shoot when turbo boosting anyway, so I've never found it to make that much of a difference




Last list looks good, you could run a 5 man squad of Scourges with two DL for 16 points less than a Jetbike squad if you could use them points.

I might consider doing that when new models for scourges come out also I needed to check my math because I was counting things as more expensive than they were (I'm now in the process of making a spreadsheet so I stop making these stupid errors).

With that in mind I thought maybe taking the 3 squads of reavers down to 2 would allow me to put an arena champion in there and actually have them be able to do something in assault especially after they get their first pain token (hopefully from combat drugs).

Revised list as follows:

Duke Siliscus

Haemonculous- Liquifier, Venom Blade

Haemonculous- Liquifier, Venom Blade

Haemonculous- Liquifier, Venom Blade

Troops

Wyches x9 – Haywire Grenades, Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Wyches x9 – Haywire Grenades, Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Wyches x9 – Haywire Grenades, Shard net, Hekatrix, Agonizer, raider, flickerfields, shock prow

Warriors x5 – Blaster,Raider, Flicker Fields, Shock Prow, Grisly Trophies

Fast Attack

Reaver Jetbikes x9 - Heat Lancex3, Champion, Agonizer

Reaver Jetbikes x9 - Heat Lancex3, Champion, Agonizer

Heavy Support

Ravager

Ravager

Ravager