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So ive been wanting to try out the outriders because the higher bs. With the fast cav move before first turn i can get them into prime firing position in a flank. the core of my army is 2 20 man squads of swordsmen a 20 man halberd squad and a greatswords squad 20 man .. all of them are Full command and i also got 2 mortars. a qiz lord, Bsb, Warrior priest and arch lector

From what I've seen, they're hit-or-miss. On one hand, 24" range, 3's to hit, multi-shoot potential (meaning 5 can put out 15 S4 shots with either 4's or 5's to hit), Fast Cav (meaning they can move pre-game), etcetera.

On the other, they're - unlike Pistoliers - Move Or Fire. Meaning they can't use any movements (besides the Vanguard) to get closer and fire at the same time. So you'll probably be firing at long range, and at long range your BS penalties for multi-shooting are a bit harsh (5's to hit meaning about one hit / model, as opposed to the extra 2-3 you can get at short).

I've seen them used in small numbers, to pretty much harass war machines (though other units are cheaper and better at this in the Empire list), plink at some Chariots (5 S4 AP hits is still 5 S4 AP hits), and... that's about it.

Overall, I normally don't recommend Outriders. Pistoliers aren't much better, really (often needing 5's to hit themselves, 6 if they multi-shoot from a brace), but I don't recommend them anyways.

Outriders make good bait. They pour out enough firepower that you can't ignore them.

But, bait without a trap is just a free meal. It's not a unit that will stand alone and be useful, it has to be part of a larger plan.

BS4 and -1 for multiple shots is the same as BS3 and single shooting. For the points, you get more shots and better survival out of hand gunners.

All outriders bring to the party is Vanguard, which can be very useful, if you design for it.

-Matt

If outriders can be placed out on a flank where the enemy will have to divert a major unit in order to engage them, they've done wonderfully well. But to be honest, I've found this a very hard thing to set up, because the enemy will often have a quality flanking unit that will brush the outriders aside, or because he'll have some shooting that can pick them off too easily.

Really, I thnk the strategy only works against an army that's mostly footslogging infantry with little to no missile troops.

If you're not facing an army like that, then you're best off deploying your outriders among your back ranks, but at this point you're looking at getting the same ratio of Str 4 AP hits out of handgunners, point for point, and they're much hardier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Minsc wrote:Overall, I normally don't recommend Outriders. Pistoliers aren't much better, really (often needing 5's to hit themselves, 6 if they multi-shoot from a brace), but I don't recommend them anyways.

I find pistoliers to be underwhelming if you can't get inside half range. But when you can get behind the enemy lines, and sit an inch off of them double tapping on 5s, they're wonderfully annoying.

Same problem as always, though, if the enemy has any missile weapons he'll kill them if they ever threaten to be useful.

If you're considering buying outriders, then consider spending equal points in handgunners. you get pretty much the same number of shots at the same to-hit (4 short, 5 long) but they have 3 wounds apiece.

Alternatively, instead of a 5-pack of outriders, take a helblaster. Averages 14-18 shots a turn at the same BS (again, 4 short, 5 long), and they're much more damaging shots at s5, -3 sv.

Pistoliers are nice in a maneuvering, charge redirecting role, especially against infantry-heavy enemies. I have kept an entire unit of grave guard out of combat for 4 turns with pistoliers, just by camping out of range, fleeing from each charge, watching him fail and go 4ish inches, rallying on the BSB and standing six inches in front of him again. Six inches is optimal because you're just inside short range, but the charger (with his 2 dice) has to roll 2 higher than your Swiftstride role.

Of course, as pointed out, sooner or later he'll shoot them, magic them, or alternatively they'll simply fail to rally, but in lists of around 2500 or higher, I think one or two 5-packs with all the upgrades are more than worth their points, as they let you do what empire does best: get in combat on your terms.

im thinking of getting 5 outriders and a squad of 20 archers with the huntsmen rule and have them go as far up the flank as i can before the game and try to have them wreck havok together... if it works... idk yet gotta try it. and i wont Buy any packs... im making my army with vikings... and for a hell blaster i'd probly make a balista with multiple arrows on it or three stacked baliste and see how it comes out... my mortars are trebuchets.. cannons will be regular catapults and my steam tank... im not sure yet but it will be awesome . probly a seige tower or a battering ram on wheels. i want my outriders to be bears with vikings and bows