Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I play tau.

I fnd that when i play vs my csm lovn friend, he sometimes takes a daemon prince with wings and lash.

He started on the edge of his deployment (since it was dow), and did his littile movement that got him something nutty close to my Fw. He then poned them.
I find that their is something wrong with tau that they dont try to run away or something, but really, moving lashing and assulting can get 36' across the board into cc with him that turn. then he consoladates 2d6. Lets just say that he won the game with one model since i couldent kill him in cc and the cc protected him from fire.

What is wrong with this picture?

Not entirely sure how he managed to travel 36" in a single turn, since he can move 12" in the movement phase, then charge 6" into combat, or choose to run and not assault.

And if you are playing a shooty army against a good CC army, deply as far away from the enemy as possible and, if possible, stick your troops on top of buildings or in transports to protect them somewhat against the DP.

Or put something soft that will die in a single turn in his way to distract it, let him kill it and then blow him away with railguns/general shooty the next turn.

For a start your friend is a whopping big cheater.

The DP can move 12", use lash to move a unit 2D6, and then assault 6. So if your opponent is EXTREMELY lucky, He can make a 30" assault, but that's almost never going to happen.

Your opponent also cannot consilodate 2D6 inches, only D6.

Is your opponent consolidating into another unit after wiping out one unit? Because that's also not allowed.

We looked this up. it is as long as the unit is not currently in cc. You dont start fighting but they do count as being in cc. this is bad as it means that i cant hurt him for my urn and my assult phase is when i get killed.

I added the movement up i my head so i probley got it wrong, and hay, if they deploy last, they get to dump all their cc guys nice and close to my side of the table as they can be ratilivly close/assulting next turn.

I think the 2d6 is something to do with the wings and jump inf??
Probley cheating and manipulating my lack of knowlage on every faction other than tau, whos stuff is quite weak and simple compared to everything else.

Really? You can consolidate into combat...kinda. New one on me.

The DP can only consolidate D6 as far as i know, i don't think the wings make a difference for that.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they consolidate D6, and you can't consolidate into combat or to within 1" of another unit.

The whole point of not being able to consolidated into CC any more is to stop a single unit rolling up an entire line.

SilverMK2 wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure they consolidate D6, and you can't consolidate into combat or to within 1" of another unit.

The whole point of not being able to consolidated into CC any more is to stop a single unit rolling up an entire line.

Exactly, that was 4th edition.

@ Ledabot: Dude, you got ripped.


Next time let him assault the closest unit, then once he wipes it out, plasma the DP to death.

His stats are going to be (at best) T6 3+/5++ or T5 3+/4++

not impossible to get around, especially with railguns.

Ledabot wrote:We looked this up. it is as long as the unit is not currently in cc. You dont start fighting but they do count as being in cc. this is bad as it means that i cant hurt him for my urn and my assult phase is when i get killed.

I added the movement up i my head so i probley got it wrong, and hay, if they deploy last, they get to dump all their cc guys nice and close to my side of the table as they can be ratilivly close/assulting next turn.

I think the 2d6 is something to do with the wings and jump inf??
Probley cheating and manipulating my lack of knowlage on every faction other than tau, whos stuff is quite weak and simple compared to everything else.

No offence but the main problem is not Tau, its you. You need to read the rules more carefully and also learn more about the other armies. Units can NOT consolidate into CC. (Make sure you have the 5th ed Rulebook). Consolidate is also a plain d6" even if you are jump infantry.

As for Lash, get some transports or pop the DP asap. But most importantly. Dont deploy so close to him.

1. If its Dawn of War then, if he goes first, he ONLY gets to put 1 Daemon Prince and 2 units from Troops down. Thts not "all his assaulty" stuff, especially as, from othe posts, he uses Rhinos.

Remember it is 2 UNITS that can be deployed, NOT 2 "choices" - so 1 unit of troops plus a rhino is BOTH your allowable units.

2. You cannot be closer than 18" to his daemon prince, but you dont want to be closer than about 30" anyway. Use your long range guns to outrange him, and if he lashes you forward you then you should still be outside of charge range

If you go first then deploy a sacrificial unit forward, to push him back (possibly a devilfish, so lash doesnt do anything) to at least 18" away from the centre line. Then when your stuff turns up he is far away across the other side of the table, givnig you more time to shoot (which is a good thing)

3. COnsolidation is ALWAYS D6". ALWAYS.

4. You CANNOT consolidate into a fresh combat. If he is doing so he is cheating.

5. Why is "all the hurt occuring on your turn"? His daemon prince should charge in, kills 5 fire warriors (warptime), you fail, flee combat and either escape or die.

Then he consolidates D6" but NOT into combnat

On your turn you shoot him to pieces. It's only 4 marine saves to get past.

It would be VERY unlucky for you to be stuck in combat with him on your turn.

As others have said: please give the rulebook a *thorough* read. These are all basic, applicable to everyone rules that suggest you need a brush up. It means you will be more confident and stop his cheating!

3-4: OK. What I said is defiantly what I read in his rulebook when all this pain was dealt to me today. Even his rulebook cheats! After looking it up I can see you are right. I will have to tell him his rule book, which looks exactly the same is broken and most likely outdated.

5: Well it seems to be a mix between his failing dice rolls and my great saves. Somehow, every single cc we played today ended in my or out teams assault phase so I never got the chance to shoot him.

The problem is I don’t have an assessable rulebook. I really wish that I got a chance to read one well. Btw, if you check in my profile, it says I have been on dakka for 2 months. I’ve been playing about half the time.
I’m still quite green in a black universe. If I had been playing for years, ok, but a month. Nothing personal but please dont burn my chezzy elder rainbow wings.

To be honest if your getting to the stage that you cant take what your opponent is claiming and cant back that up. Stop playing him and find other people/store/groups to play at.

Either ask for a 5th Ed rulebook for Christmas. Or check Ebay and see if you can pick up one of the smaller rulebooks that came with the Assault on Black Reach box set. It is the exact same book, just smaller print and without any fluff in it.

If you find the small one cheap, then ask for a coupel of HammerHead tanks for Christmas and in your next game b***h slap the guy with long range blast templates that ignore armour saves. That'll learn him.




EDIT:

here you go.....


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Warhammer-40K-Rule-Book-A5-Used-current-edition-/180593541257?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item2a0c36c089

Jump Infantry can fall back an extra D6 more than usual, but never consolidate any more than a regular footslogger. That's probably where he got it from, and hoping that since it was a passing mention in the rulebook you'd not call shenanigans on him.

Ledabot - looks like your friend is playing WH40k *4th edition*, we are now, since 2008, on *5th edition* - the cover should look substantially different if you can compare the two.

In 4th edition you could make a consolidate move, either the 3" you got for getting out of combat by NOT killing them (so fearless or sweeping advance) OR the D6" you got for killing them in combat and then go into combat. They removed this in 5th to make shooting more effective.

EIther way the MAXIMUM you can consolidate is 6" - a 6 on a D6, even if you're playing 4th edition.

5. You do realise Monstrous Creatures, and the DP is one, ignore armour saves in close combat? So he is hitting you on 3+, wounding on 2+ with no armour saves. Hence why he should, with warptime going, kill about 4 of your FW on the charge

As other people have said - its worth looking on Ebay for a small "Assault on Black Reach" (Or AoBR) rulebook. These are EXACTLY the same as the big book, minus the "fluff" and pretty pictures. You can get them for about £10 in the uk. Even if you get the big book id stuggest the small one - easier to carry around!

Sorry if we came off as harsh, but getting a core book is a good thing Oh - and get hammerheads, give them disruption pod (4+ cover save against shooting from more than 12" away) and missiles. Make his DP hurt as you move 12" away and fire S10 shots at him

Railgun large blasts don't ignore armour.

Moving 36 inches and assaulting in the same turn? You got screwed buddy....your friend is either a cheater or horribly out of date on rules.

Dow He can deploy up to halfway across the table, as long as he remains 18" away from you, wings can move 12" Lash can move you up to 12" and than a 6" assault. he's within his threat range for sure but ... tau can handle the prince it's the massed meq beatdown in CC they have a rough time with

Praxiss wrote:@ Ledabot: Dude, you got ripped.


Next time let him assault the closest unit, then once he wipes it out, plasma the DP to death.

His stats are going to be (at best) T6 3+/5++ or T5 3+/4++

not impossible to get around, especially with railguns.

Considering said DP has Lash he will have neither of those statlines.

Both 4th edition and 5th edition rulebooks feature a large hammer on the front with a symbol in front of it.

The 4th edition rulebook has the symbol as this skull-thing and the background is grey. See here
The 5th edition rulebook has the symbol as a spiked shield and the background is orange. See here

I'm fairly sure your friend has the 4th edition. If he doubts you, point out the 4 on the skull's head.

The word "cheater" is being thrown out alot here.

They are clearly just 2 confused new players, no foul play intended from what I can see.

Also Lash princes make a mockery of tau in general even without the missunderstanding. My EC have never lost to tau. My DP thrash in CC and keep his suits out of cover/withing assault range. My noise marines are pinning his FW and 1 shotting hit battlesuits with the blastmaster, and my dakka preds snipe out those annoying broadsides while ur too busty trying to railgun my DP's.

Tau have a huge weakness against Slaanesh themed chaos for sure.

Agree with Laughing God. It sounds like these are two rather new players (or a player who hasn't played much since 4th edition). 40k veterans often times forget just how huge and complex (and poorly written) the BGB really is.

Tau are also currently one of the weakest armies and in desperate need of an update. Chaos isn't top tier, but it is a very solid army. I'd expect Chaos to win most games against Tau. Of course, this is only at the optimized-play competitive level. For more casual and beginner games, armies are so far off "ideal" that you really can play a sub-par army and do really well!

A few things:

an Ion Cannon is better than a rail gun hammerhead against MC, rapid firing FW with ML support does well against them as well. He will take a lot of saves and that should crack him.

I am 99.42% sure that the Necron Lord and one of the C'tan have abilities that allow an extra dice, with discard for consolidation, but that may be it. But D6 regardless otherwise.

Na. Were just green. Though my friend has been playing longer than me so tries to take a mild authority in the group. There are several 18 year olds in our group that have played longer but they never seem to be around for games. I am looking ford to a game at my flgs on Saturday, Properly safe from mischief there since there are lots of knowledgeable players there.

Note:
The game was a 500pts game so it would have been pushing it to use a hammerhead. I ran two suits. with the fws.

Don't let a few rule mixups get you down. get in a bunc h of games at the FLGS since they will undoubtedly be playing 5th. its been beaten like a dead horse but get yourself a rulebook. i don't know how you can live without one.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but generally at 500 points it is frowned upon taking units like that?

Combat patrol rules (yes, they are for 4th edition, but I think they carry over reasonably well) suggests not using models with more than 2 wounds, as some armies, unless designed to counter 2+ wound models, will have difficulty in doing so.

well my commander at his pourest has 3 wounds. We both had about two units of troops and some bigger guys. I had an elite and commander and he had just his commander. they were both about the same price.

Erm quick q can a dp with wings deepstrike cause in the codex it sais you can have a lord with wings or jumppack and he can deepstrike either way so cant you deepstrike the prince?

I would expect so. they are considered jump inf arnt they? they can all deep strike.

Ledabot wrote:I play tau.

I fnd that when i play vs my csm lovn friend, he sometimes takes a daemon prince with wings and lash.

He started on the edge of his deployment (since it was dow), and did his littile movement that got him something nutty close to my Fw. He then poned them.
I find that their is something wrong with tau that they dont try to run away or something, but really, moving lashing and assulting can get 36' across the board into cc with him that turn. then he consoladates 2d6. Lets just say that he won the game with one model since i couldent kill him in cc and the cc protected him from fire.

What is wrong with this picture?

you have overwhelming fire power and the demon prince cant hide in squads or inside a transport; you can use your marker lights to drop its cover save and improve your ballistic skill. lash is rough for tau but you definitely have answers.