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Quick question, can different squads be spread out to be between other squads to claim a cover save?

For example, you have two squads of guants, and you line them up in straight lines but have them cross each other to make a very longated 'X'. Now, if your in front of one of the squads they can claim a cover save since half of the targeted squad is behind half of the other squad and being behind another unit grants you a 4+ cover save?

Is that legal.. ? if it is thats just annoying...

You only get cover for one of the squads as far as I am aware. This issue has come up a few times.

The new BRB FAQ covers this.

Q: Who gets the 4+ cover save for intervening models
when two units are intermingled? (p21)
A: The unit with the model closest to the enemy that is
firing does not have a cover save.

The recent FAQ says only one unit can claim the save in this situation.

No, they made mention of this in the new FAQ that was just released.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490286a_FAQ_40Krulebook_version1_1.pdf

second page

Thank you

Another FAQ come and gone, and still no fix to MCs shooting every phase. sigh. Everyone else's questions get answered.

I don't understand, are you not satisfied with the simple explanation that the shooting phase is a part of the turn sequence and unless specified any time they use 'turn' they mean player turn?
....But I guess if you asked them more you odd question might actually become a frequently asked one, as you're the only person I've heard of who's tried to pull gak like that So I assume it's just you asking.

ChrisCP wrote:I don't understand, are you not satisfied with the simple explanation that the shooting phase is a part of the turn sequence and unless specified any time they use 'turn' they mean player turn?

Where does it say turn on PG 51? Oh, right it still doesn't in any way. Just an unspecified Phase, which in every other instance (Force weaps, for example) can be activated in BOTH players' phases.
So no, still not a satisfying answer. But then, I've never been satisfied by your comments.

Doomthumbs wrote:Just an unspecified Phase, which in every other instance (Force weaps, for example) can be activated in BOTH players' phases.
So no, still not a satisfying answer. But then, I've never been satisfied by your comments.

Force weapons is quite easy
1)"Psykers can use one psychic power per player turn."
2) "but also confer to the wielder one additional psychic power, used in close combat,"
3 )"The normal rules for using psychic powers apply (remember that a psyker may normally use only one power per turn)."


... Ta-daaaah~! Force weapons are quite clearly given permission to be used in both players turns/phases by virtue of being a 'psychic power'.

Do you have an actual example of an unspecifed phase effect happening in both player turns?

Doomthumbs wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:I don't understand, are you not satisfied with the simple explanation that the shooting phase is a part of the turn sequence and unless specified any time they use 'turn' they mean player turn?

Where does it say turn on PG 51? Oh, right it still doesn't in any way. Just an unspecified Phase, which in every other instance (Force weaps, for example) can be activated in BOTH players' phases.
So no, still not a satisfying answer. But then, I've never been satisfied by your comments.

So the begainning of the Shooting Phase, saying "we split up the firing so each player's focre fires during the Shooting phase of HIS OWN TURN" should mean nothing. It seem pretty clear.

Just a few, but...

Page 50 BRB, second paragraph. "Psykers can use one psychic power per player TURN." Specifies player turn. So just on that players player turn, unless per phase also means just that.
Page 58 Tyranid Codex, Spirit Leech. "At the beginning of every Shooting phase, including the foe's". It does it every phase, even specifies during the foes phase. Neat!
Page 61 Tyranid Codex, Ymgarl Genestealers Alter Form. "At the start of every Assault phase.... cannot choose the same alteration in consecutive player turns." Ok, so if I start using +1 Attack, I can change it during your turn to +1 Toughness. Next turn, I can't use +1 attack in my turn, or +1 Toughness in yours. Makes sense.
Page 48 Tyranid Codex, Living Bomb. "If a Spore mine...ends any movement phase within 2" of an enemy unit, it immediately explodes." Ok, so if at the end of the enemy movement phase, which happened during the same game turn as my movement phase, the enemy is within 2", it blows up. Same usage of phase.
Page 54 Tyranid Codex, "The Mycetic Spore automatically shoots the closest enemy unit in each SHOOTING PHASE it is engaged in close combat." This one says each phase too!
Page 29 IG Codex, second paragraph. " A number of models in the IG army have the ability to issue on or more orders each TURN." Does that mean in my turn? No, just that players player turn. So IG cannot issue orders in my phase.
Page 30 Eldar Codex, Bladestorm. "The Exarch and his squad may choose to add one to the number of shots they make with thier shuriken weapons that turn. If the do so they may not fire in the subsequent shooting phase." This uses turn AND phase, both in the same way as above. They get to shoot 1 more shot this TURN. So this player turn. And in the next phase after that, they can't shoot.
Page 30 Eldar Codex, Defend. "... lose one Attack in each assault phase." Again, usage of phase in same context as the Ymgarl genestealers. The Eldar opponent loses one attack every phase, which means not only the Eldars phase, but during continued combat on the subsequent turn.
Page 57 Space Marine Codex, Librarian Powers. "He can only use one power each player turn..." Again, since it says turn instead of each shooting phase, Libs can only use one power a player turn.
Page 7 BA Codex, Lord of Death. "Mephiston has all three Blood Angels Psychic Powers (see below) and can use each one of them and his Force Weapon once each player turn, rather than being limited as are other Librarians. He may not use the same power more than once per turn."
Page 100 Chaos Codex, Obliterator Cult, Wargear, Obliterator weapons. "One per TURN from..." So Oblits only get to shoot during the owning players turn.

Dosen't every one of your ex. pretty much say with out a doubt how they are differnt then a normal use. MC dosen't nothing in its word suggest a change just GW great proof reading.

Page 51 BRB. Shooting. "Instead of firing one weapon, Monsterous creatures can fire two of their weapons once per shooting phase."
What the rulebook just told you is that if you are a MC you can fire two weapons every time a shooting phase comes around. When does that happen?

The Big Rule Book, page 9, GAME TURNS AND PLAYER TURNS. "In a complete game turn, both players get a player turn, each one divided into Movement, Shooting, and Assault phases ". So each game turn there are two shooting phases.
The upper right hand paragraph on page 9 further states: "Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns. Whenever a rule uses the word 'turn', both in this rule book and in the Codexes, it means 'player turn' ". Oh, ok. So if a rule says phase, I do it every phase, and if it says turn, then I do it just on my turn's phase. That seems simple.

Where's your permission to fire one weapon in your opponents shooting phase?

You may also notice in your many examples that, each=/=every.

Wheres it say Psykers can?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally,
Page 15 BRB "Each players force fires during the Shooting phase of his own turn."
BUT!
Page 9 of the BRB, TURN SEQUENCE EXCEPTIONS says "There are times when a player is allowed to preform actions during their opponents turn."

Turn = Player Trun

Never seen "Phase" defind as both players turns. Maybe I missed it. What page is it.

So, a wall of points that don't prove your point at all is your argument, huh?

Yes, so where is your permission to fire one weapon in your opponents turn?

My point is that an unqualified use of "phase" is always in both players' phases. MCs say phase.

"Turn" specifies player turn, yes. And so when a rule says turn, its just that players turn.

My wall of points backs that up fairly well, I think.
Again chris, my permission is on page 9, where it says I can in "Turn sequence exceptions".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Otherwise, Mephiston gets to use 3 powers each players turn.

...Page 9 does not say 'you may fire one weapon in your opponents shooting phase' or anything like that. Mc rules states that 'Instead of firing a single weapon' so, how were you going to fire that single weapon?

Also it's not unqualified, if you looks at your examples there is a qualification of 'each' and 'every' and each time 'each' is allowed to be 'every' it says 'each player turn'.

Doomthumbs wrote:My point is that an unqualified use of "phase" is always in both players' phases. MCs say phase.

"Turn" specifies player turn, yes. And so when a rule says turn, its just that players turn.

My wall of points backs that up fairly well, I think.
Again chris, my permission is on page 9, where it says I can in "Turn sequence exceptions".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Otherwise, Mephiston gets to use 3 powers each players turn.

Yeah you wall of back show MC should fire ONLY in there turn, becouse they don't say each or every.

ChrisCP wrote:
1)"Psykers can use one psychic power per player turn."
2) "but also confer to the wielder one additional psychic power, used in close combat,"
3 )"The normal rules for using psychic powers apply (remember that a psyker may normally use only one power per turn)."

Doomthumbs wrote:Page 51 BRB. Shooting. "Instead of firing one weapon, Monsterous creatures can fire two of their weapons once per shooting phase."

Per turn or Per Phase, these should both work the same way.
If psykers get to use FW in my assault phase, I get to shoot 2 weapons in your shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Noir wrote:
Yeah you wall of back show MC should fire ONLY in there turn, becouse they don't say each or every.

Ok, so by what you just said, Mycetic spores fire a weapon each shooting phase. Or you're wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either way, its broken.

But it is not specified to be 'every' or say 'each player turn', so what it shoul (or shall we say what you want/feel) is wrong, it follows the current format of permissions quite happily unless, as you've sho, you can't understand/don't see the evidence that you yourself are quoting.

Again you are appering to want MC's/MS to shoot 'every shooting phase' or 'in each players shooting phase' which would need the language used above, which it doesn't have. Your evidence backs up the need for this specific language to be being used - which it isn't.

Doomthumbs wrote:

Noir wrote:
Yeah you wall of back show MC should fire ONLY in there turn, becouse they don't say each or every.

Ok, so by what you just said, Mycetic spores fire a weapon each shooting phase. Or you're wrong.

It would make more sense that a immoblie range 6in could both turns then a MC. Oh no a Mycetic Spore better get closer so it can hit me.

Chris - its "Once per Shooting phase". Don't know what else to say except my opponent has one as well.

Noir- Ok, so you accept the spore shooting its ripper tentacles, apparently. So you must also accept that I'm shooting the Venom cannon I bought for the spore twice as well?

I never said I except it, but that it make more sense that for it to work that way. As it atleat includes a word that would mean one then one. While the MC entry dosen't or make any suggtion you can.

P.S. That not even taking into account how badlly edited the nid codex is.

Ok, then if it works THAT way, Mephiston is using 3 psyker powers my turn, and 3 on your turn, because he has that phrasing "each player turn".

OR

You can see my wall of points detailing how when it says turn it means just your turn.
And when it says per phase it means just that.

Let's not feed the troll, he has been on this for a while where most reasonable people understand the rules perfectly. Please just throw this under 'RAW fun' and stop bringing it up as if it is a legitimate point to make or would ever be acceptable in a game.

And calypso gets it! Lets get a FAQ on that, or at least add it to the Dakka list of "whoa, thats messed up and should be clearer".
Because as is, it reads as legitimate though only jerks would play it that way.