Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Has anyone used it, it is a 60" range large blast template, ordinance, that is AP 2... for 95 points...

Placed like a loota, I could see this little guy doing some damage....

I've used it several times. The main problem I see with it is the fact that it takes up a HQ choice, which can usually be better spent on a warboss or a KFF Mek. Also, it's incredibly fragile, so placing it in a unit of grots on an objective might be necessary to keep it alive.

QuietOrkmi wrote:Has anyone used it, it is a 60" range large blast template, ordinance, that is AP 2... for 95 points...

Placed like a loota, I could see this little guy doing some damage....

Best weapon Orks have, hands down. To bad it's on a Big Mek, becouse KFF is so much better on them it means the SAG is hardly played.

It has it's uses... but the KFF has more uses honestly. it is not bad, and it can be really hilarious to boot.


1) NEVER place it with a unit of lootas. Lootas shoot transports and other light vehicles, the SAG shoots heavy infantry. They want to shoot completely different things.

2) DO try it with a units of gretchin. It becomes scoring, the gretchin get LD 8, and you get a bunch of ablative wounds.

The owner of the FLGS I go to was wondering why no ork players use it...

As has been said it takes a KFF slot or 12 boys or 85/90 for the base of a BW.
I do love it however and hope next time I play it I'll roll yet another pair of sixes ^_^

ChrisCP wrote:As has been said it takes a KFF slot or 12 boys or 85/90 for the base of a BW.
I do love it however and hope next time I play it I'll roll yet another pair of sixes ^_^

I wish I could roll one of those! Ive killed my own mek off everytime ive used it via double 1s...still a blast to use though!

A hive tyrant, some LR variant and it's cargo, a wing of necrons and a Hammer Head have fallen to the Mighty SAG (Hammer wasn't 6's thou)

Who cares about KKF? The Shokk Attack Gun is so frikkin cool! So many different results, it just screams Orky in every way possible. It's things like that that stop 40k from being netlist trash that's just a flashy copy of chess.

It's incredibly fun to use and fits in perfectly with fluffy lists. However, as pointed out, it takes up an HQ slot that could be used for something else that helps your army more, and it can be very risky to use.

As an example, during one of the games I played, I had tossed it in a BW with some Lootas (despite, as being pointed out above, that they should be used for very different things) and had some Space Marine Scouts and a Landspeeder trying to take out the wagon. I wound up rolling double ones on the chart, rolled a D6 for range, and got a full six inches... wiped everything off of the table, Marines, Lootas, and all.

In short, it can be used for good friendly games and if you're into fluffy lists it can be a great time, with very high risk/high reward outcomes. But as far as tournament play, there are much better options.

I personally still love it, though.

Joining the bandwagon--it's great, but the kff is better.

If you could just roll S and then pick the target, it would be insane. Then again, that's probably why you can't.

svendrex wrote:It has it's uses... but the KFF has more uses honestly. it is not bad, and it can be really hilarious to boot.


1) NEVER place it with a unit of lootas. Lootas shoot transports and other light vehicles, the SAG shoots heavy infantry. They want to shoot completely different things.

2) DO try it with a units of gretchin. It becomes scoring, the gretchin get LD 8, and you get a bunch of ablative wounds.

Agreed, especially on the stick it wiv grots option. Stick em in cover and laugh.

When my friend used it, it was great...for a laugh it really did feel orky as, some games it was utterly useless, other games it simply performed solidly, other games it dominated by removing chunks of the enemy army, other games it sucked up the big mek, a truk, a mob of lootaz and a chunk of a boyz mob.

Very, very orky If you're not afraid of losing every now and then its totally worth the memories (like when you get a double six shooting at a terminator squad, or a daemon prince )


KFF is better for your game, SAG is better for your amusement

Remember that on average it is a S7 Ap2 Large blast template... I am not sure if you get 2d6 pick the highest for armor...

Even at S4, it is still a AP 2 and a large blast template....

QuietOrkmi wrote:I am not sure if you get 2d6 pick the highest for armor...

Its an ordinance weapon...why wouldnt you?

SAG is always fun and hilarious but probably shouldn't be used in tournaments. Last tournament I was in it actually stopped me from getting third because in first turn of the last round it took out a third of my own army.

So... every ork player here prefers to be non-orky and have a shield than firing a faulty yet extremely orky and powerful gun that could floor armies in a single shot? What is this world coming to?

I'd love to try one out. Put it with some gretchin, camp on a primary obj in my area and shoot what I can. I run speed freaks so by rights I'll be branded insane for not having a shield for my orks... then again orks never weren't fans of shields anyway It just so happens some smart mek got his hands on a shield and got it going. And yet everybody likes the shield more than the gun that shoots tunnels through the Warp. I can get why the KFF is way more popular with the cover save it gives to vehicles and infantry, but cmon people, orks are about unpredictability and fun, not becoming marine conformists and cowering in bubbles

inb4 getting shot to death before my army hits the enemy lines

I plan on including one in my army.
A SAG and a weird boy. These things are unreliable and fun. They can go awesome or badly. But probaly do average.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:So... every ork player here prefers to be non-orky and have a shield than firing a faulty yet extremely orky and powerful gun that could floor armies in a single shot? What is this world coming to?

Not every ork player... I wouldn't give mine up for the world. It's so random and dangerous to both sides that I can't possibly NOT take it.

Thanks for that guys, i was building an friendly orky armor, and it was lacking something to be really orky, now i now that was grots and a big big gun...

If you must use it, take two of them with maxed out Lootas, Big Guns, and Shoota Boys plus Buggies if you have the points. Maximum Shooty! You can Take Three Wagon instead and put the Lootas in them if you'd like.

SAG-BP
SAG-BP

15 Lootas
15 Lootas
15 Lootas

30 Shootas-Nob,PK,BP,3 BS
30 Shootas-Nob,PK,BP,3 BS
30 Shootas-Nob,PK,BP,3 BS
19 Grots-Runtherd
19 Grots-Runtherd

Wagon-BS
Wagon-BS
Wagon-BS

Well, thats the rough draft. You can take a KFF if you want it, which I would recommend.

skkipper wrote:I plan on including one in my army.
A SAG and a weird boy. These things are unreliable and fun. They can go awesome or badly. But probaly do average.

That's actually exactly what I run from time to time. Though I use Old Zogwort, but he's still a wierd boy. I've had some awesome times with those HQ choices. So much fun!

The Shokk Attack Gun is great, and it fits in many different army lists.

Does it fit in as many lists as a KFF Mek or a Warboss? No. But it's still very useful and one of our better HQ choices. In many cases, Gretchen can be used in place of a KFF. They still give a cover save, and can shoot, score, and speedbump on top of that. Just another option the Orks have.

I can say that there are games that I have won, or got a significant edge because of a good Shokk Attack Gun roll. On the contrary, I've never had a Shokk Attack Gun result (even a double 1) that was so catastrophic it cost me the game. When it mishaps, it's bad, but not usually devastating. Most times the Shokk Attack Gun can be relied on to at least get its points back.

I use one in the majority of my lists. Usually either KFF Mek + Shokk Attack Gun Mek, or a Shokk Attack Gun Mek + Warboss.

Irdiumstern wrote: The main problem I see with it is the fact that it takes up a HQ choice, which can usually be better spent on a warboss or a KFF Mek.

Well explained!

The SAG Big Mech is a moderate choice for an ork army but is made to seem much worse because a KFF Big Mech is just so much better. Also sheer randomness is another reason the SAG will never be used competitively but is definitely one of the most fun things in the ork codex (except maybe the green tide apocalypse formation

wow, the CGM is out in force today...

The SAG has pretty rough synergy with most ork lists, I'm afraid, especially when compared striaght up to the KFF mek. The KFF helps orks do what they do well (close with the enemy) even better. The SAG does an inconsistent job filling a gap in the ork army (long range AP2 and/or anti-tank shooting)

When I feild big mek armies i use an SAG/burna and a KMB/burna mek then 2 ork dreads, then kanz with grotzookas

Allow me to deviate a little before I opine about the SAG; I've been running two the last few months -- so my opinion will be established on the foundation of recent experience.

Polonius wrote:The KFF helps orks do what they do well (close with the enemy) even better.

Mork bless you, Polonius, but I think this line of thinking is the problem with Ork tactics. High Armor Save, High Initiative, & Feel No Pain of the foe, as well as the low Armor Save & Fearless Special Rule of the greenskinned are all liabilities to the Ork player. The "always-be-charging" (ABC!) truism exploded on me when first I experienced the Counter-assault Special Rule of the goddamned Space Wolfs. "Closing with the enemy": yes, that is important; however, there are some things you need to do before that.

Challenges with low initiative cannot really be tackled via the Ork Codex, but High Armor and Feel No Pain can be. I hate having scored tons of wounds against Space Marines (or equivalent) and found to my unhappy surprise that two in three didn't score! OK, so that leaves me a third of a ton: not bad.... Wait, Feel No Pain! Ugh. Now it's a sixth of a ton.

So this got me to thinking against the "always-be-charging" mentality to formulating a shooty Ork list, which, as things sometimes do, to the extreme: a gamblers list made up of two SAG Big Meks, nine Zzap Guns, 45 Lootas. I figured the spam would cancel out the extremes, particularly regarding the units of Lootas, which then pop transports and light tanks with extreme ease. To some extent the spamming of SAG Big Meks means that the likelihood of mishaps is increased, what with five or six rounds of rolling what damage you do -- to them or others.

Alright, I don't intend on writing a battle report here on my Gambler-Shooty list.

Let's start with the bad:

1). Doubles result in mishaps. However, only three and a half of these are really that bad, maybe two and a half. With thirty-six possible outcomes, the likelihood of rolling such-and-such per turn isn't all that high.

2). Ork BS. You'd think with the template auto-hitting this would be less of an issue. Nah, it still is. You won't be playing against hoards much, so ten inches (the extreme) deviation really matters. If you can't Hit! with the scatter die (one in three chance), you're SAG Big Mek may end up doing very little the whole game. This is especially true if all you have to shoot at is armor; the half strength damage of the template is less than impressive, and you really need to roll strength ten to do in the Land Raider. I did a little mathhammer before completing this thread, and found that on average the target should deviate three & one-fourths inches per turn. Sometimes it's a little, sometimes it's a lot. Luckily, you have an ammo runt, which allows the re-roll, particularly if you roll high against the cursed Land Raider.

3). Ammo Runts. You're allowed only one. Ugh. You really need five, one for every turn! Here's where the Zzap Guns are nice: better BS and option to bring three ammo runts (which you should always do).

Let's turn to legitimate uses:

1). Holding Objectives. No, naturally the Big Mek himself cannot hold the objective; however, he can hold the morale of those panicky grots when the shooting gets thick, and with the reroll with the Runtherds, it is pretty unlikely the unit will run. I deploy the Big Mek on the highest building and his five foor range holds slowed dominion over all. (Strangely, of all the games I have played with deployment, nobody has even bother shooting at the Big-Mek-with-Grot-Guard formation. )

2). Leadership in the Field. Likewise, the Big Mek keeps my artillery barrage firing, at least the one he is in. Because of the crew rules for artillery barrages, you need not fire at the same unit as the Big Guns themselves, allowing for more freedom of selection; which reminds me….

Don’t put the SAG Big Mek in a unit with Lootas. I know the high leadership value & access to a Bosspole might argue otherwise. Trust me, Lootas are best as anti-transports, SAG Big Meks (as will be described below) are anti-heavy/specialized infantry. Combining will resolute in simultaneous firing and the crossing of purposes. Also, consider what happens if you roll snake eyes for strength...

3). Versus infantry. You might decry the randomness of the strength of the Shokk Attack Gun, and likewise the Zzap Gun for the same reasons. However, the reality is that most infantry is either T3, T4 and rarely T5, which means that the vast majority of the time you will have to merely roll 2 and up to wound. Pretty doable. The only snotling in the motor oil is invulnerable saves, seeing as the typical armor save and feel no pain is negated by the low AP of the weapon. Against Monsterous Creatures, I find that the SAG has more mixed results: you really need to roll above S7 to have any affect, and it inflicts only one wound; however, the template when it deviates (and it will) at least does full damage, unlike against a vehicle.

I only target vehicles if there is nothing else in line of sight. So much going against this tactic otherwise: variations in strength, deviation in targeting, penetration table. Why won’t you make this director of pure warp energy AP 1? Well, at least it is an ordinance weapon….

Ultimately, the SAG Big Mek will earn back its point expenditure, occasionally do nothing (to yourself or others), or much too much (to yourself and others).

[If you all are interested, I can give you my experiences with the Zzap Gun barrage, which I think is unjustly maligned.]

Mike Noble wrote:If you must use it, take two of them with maxed out Lootas, Big Guns, and Shoota Boys plus Buggies if you have the points. Maximum Shooty! You can Take Three Wagon instead and put the Lootas in them if you'd like.

SAG-BP
SAG-BP

15 Lootas
15 Lootas
15 Lootas

30 Shootas-Nob,PK,BP,3 BS
30 Shootas-Nob,PK,BP,3 BS
30 Shootas-Nob,PK,BP,3 BS
19 Grots-Runtherd
19 Grots-Runtherd

Wagon-BS
Wagon-BS
Wagon-BS

Well, thats the rough draft. You can take a KFF if you want it, which I would recommend.

Why take the three wagons in this list? Your shoota squads are too big to ride in them and you only put one big shoota on each wagon so they aren't much of a shooting threat. I could see maybe throwing in some deff rolla wagons to go hunting in the field, or maybe some wagons with kannons.

I think heavy gun batteries would serve this shooty list better. They'd at least add to your torrent of fire.

I think that the Battle Wagons are to bunker the Lootas.

In many ways I see the SAG as similar to the Looted Wagon with a boom gun. If you roll badly, you can loose it, but it is cheep and it only takes one good shot to make the points back.

SAG Mek with Hard armor and 10x gretchin is only 130 pts. boom wagon is 105-115 if you wanr a hard case. If you can land it on a 10 man MEQ squad they run around 170-200 pts.

svendrex wrote:In many ways I see the SAG as similar to the Looted Wagon with a boom gun. If you roll badly, you can loose it, but it is cheep and it only takes one good shot to make the points back.

SAG Mek with Hard armor and 10x gretchin is only 130 pts. boom wagon is 105-115 if you wanr a hard case. If you can land it on a 10 man MEQ squad they run around 170-200 pts.

I agree. Its one of the main reasons I take a boom gun so often. They are great when they work good. Nothing makes you feel better then dropping a plate on a tactical or something and then they are gone Course one time I scattered so badly it landed a mere 1 inch away from the wagon that fired it