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My core army for any list includes 2-4 squads of hunters, a terminator squad, and Dread. My dilemma is that I can't decide between 2 Rune Priests for about 240pts or if I should go with Njal Stormcaller for about 250pts. Njal is almost like having 3 RPs in one model though.

What do you guys recommend?

I find Njal is a fun side show, but is too squishy for the points and dies really fast.

While Njal is fun to field, the problem is a lot of the good Space Wolf powers count as Psychic Shooting Attacks, meaning a Rune Priest can only cast one of them a turn. If you plan on using your Rune Priests offensively, two Rune Priests will always be better because you can cast two of any of the following:

Living Lightning
Murderous Hurricane
Jaws of the World Wolf

Tempest's Wrath and Storm Caller are buff spells, so if you plan on only casting them, or only one shooting and one buff spell, Njal may be a better choice for you (in Power Armor so you can stick him in a Rhino, but that's my personal preference).

In most situations I'll always pick two Priests over Njal.


DV8

if you want more fun, you would field all three of them. Naja is beast and player hate him, because of his game that he plays.

DV8 wrote:While Njal is fun to field, the problem is a lot of the good Space Wolf powers count as Psychic Shooting Attacks, meaning a Rune Priest can only cast one of them a turn. If you plan on using your Rune Priests offensively, two Rune Priests will always be better because you can cast two of any of the following:

Living Lightning
Murderous Hurricane
Jaws of the World Wolf

Tempest's Wrath and Storm Caller are buff spells, so if you plan on only casting them, or only one shooting and one buff spell, Njal may be a better choice for you (in Power Armor so you can stick him in a Rhino, but that's my personal preference).

In most situations I'll always pick two Priests over Njal.


DV8

If you go strictly by RAW, Njal can ride in a rhino while in his runic terminator armour. I'm not advocating doing it, but just an idea. There's a huge topic in the rules section if you want to read about it.

While Njal is fun to field, the problem is a lot of the good Space Wolf powers count as Psychic Shooting Attacks, meaning a Rune Priest can only cast one of them a turn. If you plan on using your Rune Priests offensively, two Rune Priests will always be better because you can cast two of any of the following:

Living Lightning
Murderous Hurricane
Jaws of the World Wolf

Hold the phone! Njal knows all of the psychic powers and can cast 2 per turn. And a very important and very overlooked rule in the force organization section of the codex states that no two priests can have the same powers. So if Rune Priest #1 has JOWW + LL then Rune priest #2 can't have those powers, he has to choose 2 other powers. Right?

In regards to your comment Fenrisian, You can have Rune Priests with the same psychic ability's but they must have different wargear choosen, so for example Rune Priest #1 would be JoWW + LL and Rune Priest #2 would be JoWW + LL and melta bombs.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I stand corrected pg 81 states no 2 can have either the same saga, powers, or wargear

I would take the two rune priests for flexibility issues. Also I don't like special char. altogether really unless I am going above 1500. Also with that in mind Njal is one target, while two rune priests offer two targets for your opponent to try and prioritize.

Fenrisian wrote:

While Njal is fun to field, the problem is a lot of the good Space Wolf powers count as Psychic Shooting Attacks, meaning a Rune Priest can only cast one of them a turn. If you plan on using your Rune Priests offensively, two Rune Priests will always be better because you can cast two of any of the following:

Living Lightning
Murderous Hurricane
Jaws of the World Wolf

Hold the phone! Njal knows all of the psychic powers and can cast 2 per turn. And a very important and very overlooked rule in the force organization section of the codex states that no two priests can have the same powers. So if Rune Priest #1 has JOWW + LL then Rune priest #2 can't have those powers, he has to choose 2 other powers. Right?

Wulfenone wrote:
In regards to your comment Fenrisian, You can have Rune Priests with the same psychic ability's but they must have different wargear choosen, so for example Rune Priest #1 would be JoWW + LL and Rune Priest #2 would be JoWW + LL and melta bombs.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I stand corrected pg 81 states no 2 can have either the same saga, powers, or wargear

As Wulfenone stated, Rune Priests cannot have the same combination of Wargear, the same combination of Psychic Powers, or bear the same Saga. This means that if Rune Priest A has a Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane, Rune Priest B can have a Chooser of the Slain only if he has another piece of wargear so that they do not have the same combination. Additionally, it also means that Rune Priest B can have either Living Lightning OR Murderous Hurricane, but not both as that would be the same combination as the other Priest. In Njals case, he knows all of the powers, and thus no other Rune Priest may have the same combination as him unless they too have all of the powers (which is impossible). That said, two Rune Priests may CAST the same power in a turn. If Rune Priest A has Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane, and Rune Priest B has Murderous Hurricane and Tempest's Wrath, they may both cast Murderous Hurricane freely in the same turn.

As for two Rune Priests V Njal, I think it depends entirely on the size and composition of your list. Njal should almost never be fielded as an only Rune Priest IMO, as relying on a fragile 245 point character as your only psychic protection is a bad way to do things. However, in games of about 1,850 or higher he can perform relatively well leading a swarm of Grey Hunters. His abilities necessitate getting him close to your opponent later in the game, so it's usually best to have 2-3 packs of Grey Hunters as front-line fighters in front of Njal who is used as fire support, and later in the game when good results on Lord of Tempests are possible, you want to rush him forward to deal as much damage as possible. Generally you want to keep him in his transport to keep him protected, but it also increases his LoS which is necessary for the latter results.

If you do not intend to support him in this way I recommend going with the pair of Rune Priests, which are better in almost every other situation.

Two rune priests riding with the Grey hunters in rhinos all the way.

As Wulfenone stated, Rune Priests cannot have the same combination of Wargear, the same combination of Psychic Powers, or bear the same Saga. This means that if Rune Priest A has a Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane, Rune Priest B can have a Chooser of the Slain only if he has another piece of wargear so that they do not have the same combination. Additionally, it also means that Rune Priest B can have either Living Lightning OR Murderous Hurricane, but not both as that would be the same combination as the other Priest. In Njals case, he knows all of the powers, and thus no other Rune Priest may have the same combination as him unless they too have all of the powers (which is impossible). That said, two Rune Priests may CAST the same power in a turn. If Rune Priest A has Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane, and Rune Priest B has Murderous Hurricane and Tempest's Wrath, they may both cast Murderous Hurricane freely in the same turn.

I apologize but I'm going to have to disagree. And this may have to be put in the ymdc section.

In regards to HQ choices it says, and I quote:
"However, packs of Space Wolves work best when led by a single dominant personality, each hero respected for his own abilities. To represent this, no two chracters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination. Space Wolves are far too individual for such unimaginative tactics!" -- pg 81, Space Wolves Codex, Copyright Games Workshop.

To me this means no two HQ choices can have the same saga regardless, at all. This is definite. Then we move to the next restriction: also, they cannot have the same psychic powers. Then we move to the 3rd restriction: They cannot have the same wargear combination.

1. Example: My wolf lord has Saga of the Bear. That means it is taken and no other HQ can take Saga of the Bear.

and

2. You cannot have Rune Priest #1 with JOWW + LL, if Rune Priest #2 has JOWW + Murderous Hurricane. Rune Priest #2 has to pick powers that are NOT JOWW or LL from the list. This would also mean that if you field Njal in your army + another Rune Priest then the other rune priest would not be allowed to have ANY psychic powers regardless if they had different wargear.

and

3. Wargear. If Rune Priest#1 has terminator armor + heavy flamer, then your wolf lord cannot have terminator armor + heavy flamer. He couldn have terminator armor + assault cannon though... for example.

If the rules stated: "nor may they bear the same psychic powers AND wargear combination" then yes you would be right. They also do not mention COMBINATION of powers but instead say they may not bear the SAME psychic powers.

Fenrisian wrote:

While Njal is fun to field, the problem is a lot of the good Space Wolf powers count as Psychic Shooting Attacks, meaning a Rune Priest can only cast one of them a turn. If you plan on using your Rune Priests offensively, two Rune Priests will always be better because you can cast two of any of the following:

Living Lightning
Murderous Hurricane
Jaws of the World Wolf

Hold the phone! Njal knows all of the psychic powers and can cast 2 per turn. And a very important and very overlooked rule in the force organization section of the codex states that no two priests can have the same powers. So if Rune Priest #1 has JOWW + LL then Rune priest #2 can't have those powers, he has to choose 2 other powers. Right?

No he just can't have the same combination of powers. I do believe this was FAQ'ed.

I would also have to agree that they cannot share the EXACT same two powers. The rule states "...psychic power or wargear COMBINATION" Generally combination refers to two or more. Thus they cannot share the exact same Power combination. The idea of thinking that only one RP is allowed each skill is a bit ridiculous.

Fenrisian wrote:
I apologize but I'm going to have to disagree. And this may have to be put in the ymdc section.

2. You cannot have Rune Priest #1 with JOWW + LL, if Rune Priest #2 has JOWW + Murderous Hurricane. Rune Priest #2 has to pick powers that are NOT JOWW or LL from the list. This would also mean that if you field Njal in your army + another Rune Priest then the other rune priest would not be allowed to have ANY psychic powers regardless if they had different wargear.

Wrong.

From the current official GW FAQ

Q. Can you clarify how The Leaders of the Pack
works with regards to psychic powers?
A. No number of Rune Priests may share the exact
same two psychic powers. For example, a Rune
Priest may choose to take Living Lightning and
Thunderclap. A second Rune Priest may then
choose to take Living Lighting and Jaws of the
World Wolf, as he will not have the same two
psychic powers as the first Rune Priest. Note that
the restriction on weapons and wargear still
applies, so you have to have each Rune Priest
with a unique wargear selection. Also note that
Njal Stormcaller knows all seven powers rather
than just two, so no other Rune Priest can end up
having the same powers. Thus it is permitted to
take Njal Stormcaller alongside other Rune
Priests.

Sorry, it works exactly how I said it does.

Dude, Aldarionn, don't be lame and just say: wrong, it works just how i said it works. A little bit of modesty goes a long way... just saying.

Anyways thanks for pointing out the FAQ. I must have missed it, this really helps.

Fenrisian, you wrote that if one RP has Jaws of the World Wolf + Liiving Lightning, that a second RP could not also have either of those powers.

You were wrong, and it's not necessarily rude of Aldarionn to say so. No one likes to be wrong, but it happens to all of us.

Fenrisian wrote:
"However, packs of Space Wolves work best when led by a single dominant personality, each hero respected for his own abilities. To represent this, no two chracters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination. Space Wolves are far too individual for such unimaginative tactics!" -- pg 81, Space Wolves Codex, Copyright Games Workshop.

The word combination applies to both psychic powers and wargear.

Fenrisian wrote:Dude, Aldarionn, don't be lame and just say: wrong, it works just how i said it works. A little bit of modesty goes a long way... just saying.

Anyways thanks for pointing out the FAQ. I must have missed it, this really helps.

My apologies if I came across as curt. I didn't have a whole lot of time to reply when I wrote that post. I should have said "This is incorrect" and left the line at the bottom off. Had I proof-read my post as I should have I would have changed the tone a bit.

Mannahnin, I didn't say it was rude. I said it was lame. I also thanked him for bringing that information up. I have no problem with being corrected, it's what I was looking for. What I had a problem with was the way in which the information was delivered. Maybe he could have said "actually there is an entry in the FAQ that states: blah blah blah" instead of "wrong. I was right the whole time" = lack of modesty. Correct?

My suggestion of modesty was in no way inappropriate so go mod something that is.

Fenrisian, you made a false statement that "it works just how i said it works", in the same post in which you purported to correct Aldarionn. That's a shaky perch to be standing on.

I suggest the whole subject be dropped.

Your suggesting regarding moderation is taken under advisement.

Aldarionn is not generally a jerk about things, he is however pretty knowledgeable about space wolves and rarely wrong, so he is likely to correct you.
As he said, he didn't mean to come off curt in the process, but you might also think before immediately questioning someone with a lot of clout on a subject (Space Wolves), with a 6 post history and incomplete information, and then get defensive about how he corrected you.

Clout?! I can question whoever I damn well please. Jesus, it's a forum not the Vatican. I don't care if you're the CEO of Games Workshop, if you're rude I'll call you out on it. Whatever though. This is one forum I will never visit again. Goodbye.

*Blink Blink* What just happened?

I suggest a lock of this thread as it has gone complete off topic, and can only further a silly debate on forum etiquette.

Magister187, Fenrisian does have a point that you should not be bringing "clout" and post count into it. That's an Appeal to Authority in a debate, and it's a logical fallacy. Everyone's arguments should stand on their own merits.

That being said, Aldarionn correctly and in detail described the rule. Then Fenrisian erroneously contradicted him. If you're going to contradict someone's statement, it behooves you to check the source material and make sure you know what you're talking about. So Fenrisian made the first error.

Then Aldarionn was a little bit curt/brief in correcting him and quoting the FAQ.

Fenrisian then chose to upbraid Aldarionn, while making a false statement "it works just how i said it works". While Fenrisian was right that Aldarionn was a bit short with him (which Aldarionn apologized for, explaining that he was short on time when he posted), Fenrisian was not exactly in a good position to be throwing stones, given that he had also erred twice himself. Take the log out of your own eye first, and all that.

Sorry to see him go over such a little thing.