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I've been amassing a number of kroxigor to play with, and through some good deals on Ebay, have brought my total of the towering lizards to around 15. But since I've only recently returned to playing after a 10 year break, I'm not sure on the best use, and best numbers to use.

The group I play with tends to be at 2250 points. What successful units of krox do you use/have you run into at that size game? Better with skinks or on their own? Any good and bad points?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I've been running a unit of three in the 2k list I'm playing with these days. I'm a proponent of using them on their own in my center, and having a big block of Skinks running the flank with javelins. Very rarely do they get into combat, but instead they tend to draw alot of enemy missile fire, which is always a good thing, especially as I tend to get matched up against those damned Dwarves.

I can't see where a larger unit of Krox would be a bad thing, other then it drains your available points. They do hit rather hard, but unless you've got something really nasty on the table (which at that high of points you should), they tend to die quick. I'd use a 5 man block to draw fire and tie up a bigger block of infantry/scoring units.

Hope this helps a bit.

I use a unit of 6, either centre with blocks of saurus either side and slighltly behind, or on the flank if there is something juicy / firelanes are conducive to me cutting down the enemies fire enough.

People dont want up to 18 S6 attacks hitting them, plus 3 S4 stomps. Esepcially if I have a throne life slann giving them T8 and regen....

Most effective use of Kroxigors? Paperweights.

Flashman wrote:Most effective use of Kroxigors? Paperweights.

Indeed. They are not even close to being worth their points. I'd consider them if they were 35 points, but 55 points for a bad stat line that always strikes last is just not worth it. Plus you pay so they can strike over skinks! Which is perfectly allowable now, but increased their points cost before.

Hell, I have a hard enough time coming up with a reason to use skinks.

Mattlov wrote:[Hell, I have a hard enough time coming up with a reason to use skinks.

Going slightly off topic, having javelins being quick to fire makes them a bit more playable, if only because they can finally get a friggin' viable armor save.

You cant come up with a decent reason to use Skinks, despite their increase in threat range and doubled poison threat range? Or that they can now poison everything in the game?

Interesting. Exactly the opposite of the UK scene....

2nd that. I'm not in the UK, but skinks annoy me just as much as last edition. Constant poisoning, tough to catch, and worth about nothing when you do.

Hell, theyre harder to catch now - they have a very good chance of being able to march, and can still fire if they do. No penalty for moving means they can double tap normal units at long range now, doubling their effectiveness in one go....

nosferatu1001 wrote:You cant come up with a decent reason to use Skinks, despite their increase in threat range and doubled poison threat range? Or that they can now poison everything in the game?

Interesting. Exactly the opposite of the UK scene....

It's the 12 inch range and the Toughness 2 that make them near useless. I play against a lot of shooting armies, or WoC. Skinks do NOTHING. Poisoning doesn't help if the opponent still has a 3+ save. A 6+ save is a save in mind only. Add to that the awesomeness of Ld 6, and even with cold-blooded they just aren't that useful.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you there. Against warriors, sure you're not getting through their armor a bunch (assuming there's not any ideal targets floating around like giants), but you don't really have to worry about getting shot back. And your skinks can flee/divert to give you the combat advantage you want on those blocks.

Red_Zeke wrote:I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you there. Against warriors, sure you're not getting through their armor a bunch (assuming there's not any ideal targets floating around like giants), but you don't really have to worry about getting shot back. And your skinks can flee/divert to give you the combat advantage you want on those blocks.

I try not to flee if at all possible. I don't like the fact I can trigger panic in my own troops nearby.

Mattlov wrote:

It's the 12 inch range and the Toughness 2 that make them near useless. I play against a lot of shooting armies, or WoC. Skinks do NOTHING. Poisoning doesn't help if the opponent still has a 3+ save. A 6+ save is a save in mind only. Add to that the awesomeness of Ld 6, and even with cold-blooded they just aren't that useful.

Um, its a 24" range. You can march and shoot and still poison a normal unit at long range (single shot) or double tap at 18". Hence mentioning effective range - being able to march and shoot is a BIG deal.

So what if you have 3+ armour saves? It's like saying guard with flashlights should never shoot marines!

Being an AVID lizard player I would highly, highly disagree with you: skinks are my main offensive power at range. From Chameleon skinks turning up and, in one round on avergae taking out a cannon (20 shots, poison on a 6, 3 wounds, 6+ armour) that would wreck my kroxigor / salamanders / saurus otherwise, to the skinks marching round the flanks of units and getting NO shots back in return, skinks are absolute golden. Which is why so many UK comp'ed tournies limit you to only 60 of them.

Hell, if all they do is provide you -2 hard cover from shooting to your saurus blocks they are worth their points. CB Ld6 is around a 60% pass rate, which is very good - better than human average.

I don't understand where you're coming from either, Mattlov. Skinks (I'm assuming we're talking about blowpipe/skirmishing ones here) are awesome against many things... and even if you end up in a bad matchup for them, there is usually a decent target for them somewhere on the board. And they're fast enough to get there...

If not, they're cheap anyway, and can still divert, bait charges, flee... and if you're not doing that you're missing out on some of their utility. The rest of your cold-blooded units will usually be just fine, especially with a BSB near your important ones.

Kroxigors in a unit are viable now, imho. I don't see how anyone could say that they're not decent at least, albiet expensive... They might not be best deal for the points, but they can bring the pain! And with lore of life on a slann like everyone is taking, they can be plain scary (like most LM units once buffed, of course). I think 6 is a great number for monstrous infantry to run in, although I've taken to using 8 quite a bit now for my trolls/ogres.

Chaos ogres are in a similar boat- 50 points for a model with chaos armor and GW (str 6) and I believe a similar stat-line. Not cold-blooded, but can take mus/std and a mark if they desire, so a pretty even comparison. I've had some do great for me... again it's all about the matchups (unit to unit especially, not necessarily army to army).

My thing is for every krox you take you could take 5 plain old Saurus warriors, which are arguably better.

Also skinks are an amazing unit. For me the constantly kill giants, plague furnaces, and other pesky things like that.

Not to mention they are great for taking charges, killing another model or 3 on the stand and shoot...

When i play my lizards I rarely have my skinks not make their points back.

ShivanAngel wrote:My thing is for every krox you take you could take 5 plain old Saurus warriors, which are arguably better.

Very true... but just because Saurus rock doesn't mean Kroxigors aren't decent! That was the point I was trying to make, anyway.

ShivanAngel wrote:My thing is for every krox you take you could take 5 plain old Saurus warriors, which are arguably better.

If you look at 1 krox vs 5 saurus, the saurus do look better.
8 krox equate to 40 saurus.

8 krox, can put all their attacks on an enemy unit 80mm wide.
40 saurus, no such luck.

Where krox really out shine saurus is in larger units. At some point, you get diminishing returns on saurus warriors, Krox don't typically hit that number until 8 when fighting small units, or 10 when fighting bigger ones. For saurus to try and keep pace with krox killing power, they need to go 250mm wide (horde), where the krox frontage is 120mm or 160mm. This more narrow front is a big advantage, as it leave room for other units to join in (like saurus, or steggadons).

-Matt

Except Saurus will end up with a better armor save and a parry save. 5 Saurus vs. a Kroxigor should have the Krox losing EVERY TIME.

Saurus in a 3 wide with 2 behind. That will be 8 attacks against the Kroxigor. Hit and wound on 4+. Krox gets a 5+ save against those wounds.

Krox gets 3 attacks back, needing 4 to hit and 2 to wound. Saurus get 2 6+ saves.

Only place the Saurus really lose out is then the Kroxigor gets a stomp.

I'll take the Saurus every time in that fight.

Mattlov wrote:Except Saurus will end up with a better armor save and a parry save. 5 Saurus vs. a Kroxigor should have the Krox losing EVERY TIME.

Saurus in a 3 wide with 2 behind. That will be 8 attacks against the Kroxigor. Hit and wound on 4+. Krox gets a 5+ save against those wounds.
Krox gets 3 attacks back, needing 4 to hit and 2 to wound. Saurus get 2 6+ saves.
Only place the Saurus really lose out is then the Kroxigor gets a stomp.
I'll take the Saurus every time in that fight.

8 attacks, 4+ hit, 4+ wound, 5+ save is ~1.33 wounds.
3 attacks, 4+ hit, 2+ wound, 6+ parry is 1.04 wounds...
But, don't forget the stomp, auto hit, 4+ wound, 5+ save, no parry: .33 wounds.

Krox is .04 wounds better.
Ld8 cold blooded fails fear a little more than 10% of the time (making saurus hit on 5's and get hit on 3's).
M6 vs M4 gives the Krox an edge in the charging, for an extra +1 combat res in the 1st round.
So, not only do Krox stomp, but they don't get stomped on (or thunder stomped on).

But, Krox fighting saurus isn't the best example. A better look is both Krox and Saurus fighting units you are likely to face. After all, you don't typically hit yourself, you want what is best to hit the enemy with.

-Matt

Exactly. Krox are for peeling open otherwise tough units that just dont die to S4 attacks. Their speed also lets them get on the flank where they still get most/all of their attacks but have far fewer attacking them.

I love my krox....

nosferatu1001 wrote:Esepcially if I have a throne life slann giving them T8 and regen....

The frog cant give them regen unless he is in the unit. At which point you have lost already.

HoverBoy wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Esepcially if I have a throne life slann giving them T8 and regen....

The frog cant give them regen unless he is in the unit. At which point you have lost already.

Well, in that example, that frog would have T8, W5, and a 4+ ward which is still pretty comfy.

I've seen the Slann happily in combat a number of times...

I'd still have him in a larger unit which allows look oout sir. 50% is just not good enough against warmachines.

He's ethereal, why does he worry about warmachines?

(yes, dwarves would still hurt....)

Guess im too stuck on loving the fluff behind temple guard