Endova's 5th Ed. Dark Angels Codex: v1.2

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**Commander Endova**

The following is something I've been slaving over for the past few weeks. It's a real labor of love, though, I admit I'm not much of a Dark Angels guy. I'm going to leave the rest of the commentary until the end, and let you guys get your own impressions before reading mine. Text in italics denote Designer's Notes.

Spoiler:

QUICK REF & ARMORY:
All wargear and special rules are as in Codex: Space Marines (5th ed). Wargear and/or special rules not listed in Codex: Space Marines (5th ed) are as in Codex: Dark Angels (most recent edition) or described in this document.

Watcher In the Dark: A watcher in the dark adds one wound to the character it was bought for. It may be modeled on a separate base, or on the same base as the character it was bought for. If on a separate base, the Watcher In the Dark takes up no additional transport space, and has no other physical properties.

Plasma Lance: R:48”|Str. 7|AP:2|Heavy 1, Lance, Gets Hot, Ordnance, Small Blast

Suspensors: A unit with suspensors may take an initiative test at start of it's movement phase. If the test is passed, Squad gets Slow and Purposeful until it's next movement phase. If the test is failed failed, squad can not shoot Heavy weapons in its following shooting phase. Note that this test is optional, and the the unit with suspensors may opt to move and shhot with normal restrictions.

Tempest Missile Launcher: |R:48”|Str. 4|AP:5|Heavy 1, Small Blast| or |R:48”|Str. 8|AP:3|Heavy 1
When the weapon shoots, in addition to declaring what profile to use, declare if the weapon will shoot twice, or twin-linked once.

Lion's Helm: A model with the Lions Helm confers a 4+ invul save to the owner and the unit he is with. In addition, all armor saves on wounds cause by Gets Hot! May be re-rolled.

Unforgiven: If a model in the army has the Unforgiven special rule, no models with the Fallen special rule may be included.

Fallen: If a model in the army has the Fallen special rule, no models with the Unforgiven special rule may be included.

Holy Pursuit: Before you Deep Strike, declare if the model will use Holy Pursuit then choose an independent character as it's target. The unit may attempt to deep strike within 12 inches of the chosen independent character. However, the unit will only scatter D6 inches, and may assault the the targeted independent character the turn the unit arrives. Note that Holy Pursuit may not be used in conjunction with Deathwing Assault. It takes time to identify a target for such a decisive action!

Master Of the Deathwing: If a model in the army has this special rule, Deathwing Terminator Squads may be taken as Troops and Elites, and 0-1 Deathwing Command Squads may be taken. All Deathwing Terminator Squads may select a Land Raider, Land Raider Crusader or Land Raider Hunter as a Dedicated Transport.

Deathwing Assault: Before of your first turn, after deployment and all scout moves are made, you may choose up to half of the units in your army with this special rule to make a “Deathwing Assault.” The units making the “Deathwing Assault” assault then deep strike in at the start of your first turn.

Imperial Jetbike: Imperial Jetbikes follow all the normal rules for Jetbikes, as in the Main Rule Book. They are armed with twin-linked storm bolters.

Master of the Ravenwing: If a model in the army has this special rule, Ravenwing Bike Squads may be taken as Troops and Fast Attack, and 0-1 Ravenwing Command Squads may be taken. Scout squads of no more than 5 models, who have purchased a Land Speeder Storm, may be taken as Fast attack choices.

Psychic Powers: Dark Angels psychic powers are described below:

-Force Barrier: If a psyker with this power takes a wound that requires an invulnerable save to pass, he may attempt to pass it using this psychic power. He may only make as many saves this way as he has psychic power uses left this turn. As with all psychic powers, this one may be nullified if the enemy has the means too.
-Hellfire: As Codex: Dark Angels, |Range: Template|S:2d6-2 |AP6|Assault 1|
-Mind Worm: Shooting attack. As in Codex: Dark Agnels
-Firestorm: This power is used at the start of the shooting phase, but is not a psychic shooting attack. Pick a unit within 12 inches of the Librarian. That unit's weapons are twin-linked for that shooting phase.
-Shockwave: Range: 0”|S:6|AP:5|Assault 1, Melta, Large Blast| Do not roll scatter for this attack. Note that this power will effect friendly and enemy units, but not the Librarian himself.
-Mind Stasis: This power is used at the start of either players assault phase. The Librarian and his unit gain the Hit and Run Special Rule.

Shockwave is the big one here. Kind of a "you don;t want to get near me" pre assault kind of attack. I'm thinking about lowering the AP to 3, so it gives even Space Marines pause.

Trick-Shot: Cypher may fire both of his weapons, or one of his weapons counting as twin-linked.

Plasma Pistoleer: At the start of each assault phase, Cypher must roll an initiative test. If the test is passed, Cypher uses his plasma pistol in close combat, and counts as striking with an S:7 power weapon. If the roll for the initiative test is a 1, Cypher suffers a Gets Hot! Wound.

Archaic Weaponry: If Cypher is in your army, all models in your army may re roll saves to prevent Gets Hot! wounds.

Hunt the Fallen: If at least one model in your army has this special rule, nominate one enemy Independent Character. If any model with, (or unit attached to a model with) this rule kills the Target Independent Character, it is worth 2 kill points.

Image of Fear: An enemy unit wishing to assault an Interrogator-Chaplain or the unit he is with must pass a morale test to do so. If the unit fails, it does not assault, and may not try to assault a different target.

You should be able to figure this one out yourself, but obviously, the point of this special rule is to be able to plop an Interrogator-Chaplain in an important shooty unit, and hopefully prevent an enemy from assaulting it.

UNIVERSAL RULES:
Sons of Caliban: A model with two identical pistols fires them twin-linked.

Theres a lot of this in the army list. In my mind "exchange bolt pistol and/or chainsword" for "X...+y pts" always meant you could take two of something. Usually there isn't much point in doing so, but this rule makes it so any model with two plasma pistols or two bolt pistols get to shoot them twin linked. For bolt pistols, that usually a 5 pt upgrade for the second one, because not only is the model more accurate in shooting, he still gets an additional attack in Cc.

Sons of the Lion: This unit or model is stubborn.

I had wanted more out of this rule than a fancy way of saying "stubborn" but coul't figure out what.

HQ:

AZRAEL...215 Points
WS:6|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Sv:2+

Composition:
-1 (Unique)

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Artificer Armor
-Bolt Pistol
-Lion Helm
-Sword of Secrets (Master Crafted Power Sword; Strikes at S:6)
-Lion's Tooth (Master Crafted Combi-Plasma)
-Watcher in the Dark (not included in profile)

Special Rules
-Supreme Grand Master
-Rites of Battle
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Orbital Bombardment
-Independent Character
-Unforgiven
-Sons of the Lion
-Hunt the Fallen

BELIAL...200 Points
WS:6|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Sv:2+

Composition:
-1 (Unique)

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear
-Terminator Armor
-Storm Bolter
-Sword of Silence (Master Crafted Power Sword)
-Deathwing Company Standard
-Iron Halo

Special Rules
-Holy Pursuit
-Master Of the Deathwing (May Deathwing Squads as Troops and Elites, may take 0-1 Deathwing Command Squads, Deathwing Terminator Squads may take either a Land Raider, Land Raider Crusader, or Land Raider Hunter as a Dedicated Transport.)
-Rights of Battle
-Unforgiven
-Eternal Warrior
-Deathwing Assault (Select half (rounding up) of units with this special rule. They may deep strike turn 1)
-Sons of the Lion
-Hunt the Fallen

SAMMAEL...205 Points
WS:6|BS:5|S:4|T:4(5)|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Sv:3+

Composition:
-1 (Unique)

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Jetbike
-Plasma cannon
-Iron Halo
-The Raven Sword (Master Crafted Power Weapon)

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-Rites of Battle
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Master of the Ravenwing
-Independent Character
-Unforgiven
-Sons of the Lion
-Hunt the Fallen

EZEKIEL...170 Points
WS:5|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Sv:2+

Composition:
-1 (Unique)

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Artificer Armor
-Traitors Bane (Master Crafted Force Weapon)
-Psychic Hood
-Book of Salvation (All freindly units within 12” are fearless.)
-Master-Crafted Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Independent Character
-Master Psyker (Knows all powers, can use 3 powers per turn)
-Unforgiven
-Sons of the Lion
-Hunt the Fallen

Psyker Powers:
-Force Barrier
-Hellfire
-Mind Worm
-Firestorm
-Shockwave
-Mind Stasis

CYPHER...185 Points
WS:5|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Sv:3+
Composition:
-1 (Unique)

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Plasma Pistol
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Independent Character
-Trick Shot
-Plasma Pistoleer
-Archaic Weaponry
-Fallen

So, Cypher's supposed to be a BAMF. One of the strengths of this list is the amount of plasma it can take, which means potentially a tone of Gets Hot! wounds. Cypher mitigates that a little, but coupling it with some of the other IC special abilities might be over powered, thus, Fallen/Unforgiven. I had also wanted to do some rank and file Fallen and Unforgiven units (namely, Ravenwing/Deathwing as Unforgiven) but I couldn't think of anything uniquely Fallen, other than ripping from the CSM 'dex, and i already rip pretty heavily from the SM dex here.

COMPANY MASTER...100 Points
WS:5|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Sv:3+
Composition:
-1 Company Master

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades
-Chainsword
-Iron Halo

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Independent Character
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion
-Hunt the Fallen

Options:
-May replace bolt pistol/chainsword with:
--a Boltgun...free
--a storm bolter, bolt pistol or combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-flamer, combi-melta, plasma-pistol...+10 pts
--a storm shield, power sword, or lightning claw...+15 pts
--a power fist...+25 pts
--a relic blade or thunder hammer...+30 pts
-replace power armor for armor artificer armor...+15 pts
-take melta bombs...+5 pts
-take digital weapons...+10 pts
-take hellfire rounds...+10 pts
-take auxilliary grenade launcher...+5pts
-take Orbital Bombardment...+25 pts
-Replace power armor, bolt pistol, chainsword and frag and krak grenades with Terminator armor, storm bolter, and power sword...+40 pts
-Replace Terminator Armor's storm bolter wth:
--combi-plasma...+5 pts
--combi-Melta or combi-Flamer...+10 pts
--lightning claw...+10 pts
--thunder hammer...+20 pts
-Replace Terminator Armor's power sword with:
--lightning claw...+5 pts
--power fist or storm shield...+10 pts
--thunderhammer or chainsfist...+15 pts
-if Terminator Armor is not chosen, may have one of the following:
--Jump pack...+25 pts
--Space Marine Bike...35 +pts
-If a Jump pack or Space Marine bike is not chosen, may take a Watcher in the Dark...+20 pts

LIBRARIAN...100 Points
WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:2|I:4|A:2|Ld:10|Sv:3+
Composition:
-1 Librarian

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades
-Force Weapon
-Psychic Hood

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Independent Character
-Psyker
-Sons of the Lion

Psyker Powers:
A Librarian has two of the following powers: Force Barrier, Hellfire, Mind Worm, Firestorm, Shockwave, Mind Stasis

Options:
-May Upgrade to an Epistolary...+50 pts
-May replace bolt pistol with:
--a Boltgun...free
--a storm bolter or combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-flamer, combi-melta, plasma-pistol...+10 pts
-take hellfire rounds...+10 pts
-Replace power armor, bolt pistol, and frag and krak grenades with Terminator armor, and storm bolter...+30 pts
-Replace Terminator Armor's storm bolter wth:
--combi-plasma...+5 pts
--combi-Melta or combi-Flamer...+10 pts
-if Terminator Armor is not chosen, may have one of the following:
--Jump pack...+25 pts
--Space Marine Bike...35 +pts
-If a Jump pack or Space Marine bike is not chosen, may take a Watcher in the Dark...+20 pts

INTERROGATOR-CHAPLAIN...130 Points
WS:5|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Sv:3+
Composition:
-1 Interrogator-Chaplain (Unique)

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades
-Crozius Arcanum
-Rosarius

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Independent Character
-Liturgies of Battle
-Honor of the Chapter
-Unforgiven
-Hunt the Fallen
-Image of Fear
-Hunt the Fallen

Options:
-May replace bolt pistol with:
--a Boltgun...0 pts
--a storm bolter or combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-flamer, combi-melta, plasma-pistol...+10 pts
--a power fist...+25 pts
-May take melta boms... 5 points
-Replace power armor, bolt pistol, and frag and krak grenades with Terminator armor, and storm bolter...+30 pts
-Replace Terminator Armor's storm bolter wth:
--combi-plasma...+5 pts
--combi-Melta or combi-Flamer...+10 pts
-if Terminator Armor is not chosen, may have one of the following:
--Jump pack...+25 pts
--Space Marine Bike...35 +pts
-If a Jump pack or Space Marine bike is not chosen, may take a Watcher in the Dark...+20 pts

CHAPLAIN...100 Points
WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:2|I:4|A:2|Ld:10|Sv:3+
Composition:
-1 Chaplain

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades
-Crozius Arcanum
-Rosarius

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Independent Character
-Liturgies of Battle
-Honor of the Chapter
-Image of Fear
-Hunt the Fallen

Options:
-May replace bolt pistol with:
--a Boltgun...0 pts
--a storm bolter or combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-flamer, combi-melta, plasma-pistol...+10 pts
--a power fist...+25 pts
-Take Melta Bombs...+5 pts
-Replace power armor, bolt pistol, and frag and krak grenades with Terminator armor, and storm bolter...+30 pts
-Replace Terminator Armor's storm bolter wth:
--combi-plasma...+5 pts
--combi-Melta or combi-Flamer...+10 pts
-if Terminator Armor is not chosen, may have one of the following:
--Jump pack...+25 pts
--Space Marine Bike...35 +pts
-If a Jump pack or Space Marine bike is not chosen, may take a Watcher in the Dark...+20 pts

COMMAND SQUAD...115 Points
1 Command Squad may be taken for every Chaplain, Librarian or Company Master, as well as Azreal, Ezikiel or Cypher. Command Squads do not take up HQ slots.

Company Champion – WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+
Apothecary - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+
Veteran – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+

Composition:
-1 Apothecary
-4 Veterans

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades
-Chainsword
-The Apothecary also has a Narthecium

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Stubborn
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion

Model Options:
- Any Veteran may replace bolt pistol/chainsword with:
--a Boltgun...0 pts
--a storm bolter, bolt pistol, flamer or combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-flamer, combi-melta, plasma-pistol, plasmagun or meltagun...+10 pts
--a power fist...+25 pts
--a thunder hammer...+30 pts
-Any Veteran may have the following:
--melta-bombs...+5 pts
--storm shield...+15 points
--auxiliary grenade launcher...+15 points

Unit Options:
-One Veteran may carry the Company Standard...+15 pts
--if a Interrogator-Chaplain is in the army, the Company Standard may be upgraded to a Sacred Standard...+5 pts
--if Azrael is in the army, the Company Standard may be upgraded to the Chapter Banner...+10 pts
-One Veteran may be upgraded to the Company Champion with a Storm Shield and Power Weapon...+15
-All Veterans with boltguns may take Special Ammunition...+10 points/model

Transport Options:
May Select a Rhino, Razorback, or Drop Pod

RAVENWING COMMAND SQUAD...200 Points
1 Ravening Command Squad may be taken if Sammael is in your army. A Ravenwing Command Squad does not take up an HQ choice.

Company Champion – WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+
Apothecary – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+
Veteran – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+

Composition:
-1 Apothecary
-4 Veterans

Unit Type:
-Jet Bikers

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak Grenades
-Chainsword
-The Apothecary also has a Narthecium
-Jetbikes

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-Sons of Caliban
-Hunt the Fallen

Model Options:
- Any Veteran may replace bolt pistol/chainsword with:
--a Boltgun...0 pts
--a storm bolter, bolt pistol, flamer or combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-flamer, combi-melta, plasma-pistol, plasmagun or meltagun...+10 pts
--a power weapon or lightning claw...+15 pts
--a power fist...+25 pts
--a thunder hammer or relic blade...+30 pts
-Any Veteran may have the following:
--melta-bombs...+5 pts
--storm shield...+15 points

Unit Options:
-One Veteran may carry the Ravenwing Company Standard...+25 pts
-One Veteran may be upgraded to the Company Champion with a Storm Shield...+15 pts
-One Jetbike may replace its twin-linked storm bolter with a twin linked plasmagun...+15 pts

DEATHWING COMMAND SQUAD...215 Points
1 Deathwing Command Squad may be taken if Belial is in your army. A Deathwing Command Squad does not take up an HQ choice.

Terminator Company Champion – WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:2+
Terminator Apothecary – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:2+
Terminator Veteran – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:2+

Composition:
-1 Terminator Apothecary
-4 Terminator Veterans

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Terminator Armor
-Storm Bolter
-Power Fist
-The Apothecary also has a Narthecium

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-Holy Pursuit
-Deathwing Assault
-Hunt the Fallen

Model Options:
- Any Terminator Veteran may replace Storm Bolter/Power Fist with:
-- a Lightning Claw, Thunder Hammer or Storm Shield... 0 pts
--a Power Sword, combi-melta, combi-plasma, combi-flamer or chainfist...+5 pts
-One Terminator Veteran may:
--Replace his Storm Bolter with a Heavy Flamer...+5 pts
--Replace his storm Bolter with an Assault Cannon or a Plasma Cannon...+30 pts
--Take a Cyclone Missle launcher...+30 pts

Unit Options:
-One Terminator Veteran may be upgraded to the Company Champion with a Storm Shield and Relic Blade...+15 pts
-One Veteran may carry the Deathwing Company Standard...+25 pts

Transport Options:
May select a Land Raider, Land Raider Crusader, or Land Raider Hunter

ELITES:

DEATHWING TERMINATOR SQUAD...215 Points
Terminator – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:2+
Terminator Sergeant – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:2+

Composition:
-1 Terminator Sergeant
-4 Terminators

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Terminator Armor
-Storm Bolter
-Power Fist (Terminators)
-Power Weapon (Terminator Sergeant)

Special Rules:
-Combat Squads
-Fearless
-Deathwing Assault
-Hunt the Fallen

Options:
-May include up to 5 additional terminators...+40 pts/model
- Any model may replace Storm Bolter/Power Fist with:
--a Lightning Claw, Thunder Hammer or Storm Shield,... 0 pts
--a combi-melta, combi-plasma, combi-flamer or chainfist...+5 pts
-For every 5 models in the squad, one Terminator may:
--Replace his Storm Bolter with a Heavy Flamer...+5 pts
--Replace his storm Bolter with an Assault Cannon...+20 pts
--Take a Cyclone Missle launcher...+20 pts
-The sergeant may replace his power weapon with:
--a relic blade...10 points

Transport Options:
-One Deathwing Terminator Squad in your army may select a Land Raider, Land Raider Crusader, or Land Raider Hunter

VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT...165 Points
Dreadnought – WS:5|BS:5|S:6|FAV:12|SAV:12|RAV:10|I:4|A:2

Unit Composition:
- 1 Dreadnought

Unit Type:
-Vehicle (Walker)

Wargear:
-Multi-melta
-Dreadnought close combat weapon (with built in storm bolter)
-Smoke launchers
-Searchlight

Special Rules:
-Venerable

Options:
-Replace storm bolter with heavy flamer...10 pts
-Replace multi-melta with:
--twin linked heavy flamer...0 pts
--twin linked heavy bolter...5 pts
--twin linked auto cannon...10 pts
--plasma cannon or assault cannon...10 pts
--twin linked lascannon...30 points
--plasma lance...45 points
-Replace Dreadnought close combat weapon with:
--missile launcher...10 points
-Take extra armor...15 points

Dedicated Transport:
-May select a Drop Pod

Plasma Lance: R:48” Str. 7 AP:2 Heavy 1, Lance, Gets Hot, Ordnance, Small Blast

DREADNOUGHT...105 Points
Dreadnought – WS:4|BS:4|S:6|FAV:12|SAV:12|RAV:10|I:4|A:2

Unit Composition:
- 1 Dreadnought

Unit Type:
-Vehicle (Walker)

Wargear:
-Multi-melta
-Dreadnought close combat weapon (with built in storm bolter)
-Smoke launchers
-Searchlight

Options:
-Replace storm bolter with heavy flamer...10 pts
-Replace multi-melta with:
--twin linked heavy flamer...0 pts
--twin linked heavy bolter...5 pts
--twin linked auto cannon...10 pts
--plasma cannon or assault cannon...10 pts
--twin linked lascannon...30 points
--plasma lance...45 points
-Replace Dreadnought close combat weapon with:
--missile launcher...10 points
-Take extra armor...15 points

Dedicated Transport:
-May select a Drop Pod

COMPANY VETERANS SQUAD...125 Points
Veteran – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+
Veteran Sergeant - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+

Unit Composition:
- 1 Veteran Sergeant
- 4 Veterans

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Chainsword
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion
-Combat Squads

Options:
-May include up to 5 additional veterans... +25 pts/model
-Any Veteran may replace his bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:
--a bolt gun with special issue ammunition...0 pts
--a combi-melta, bolt pistol -flamer, -plasma or a storm bolter...+5 pts
--a plasma pistol...+10 pts
--a lightning claw or power weapon...+15 pts
--a power fist...+25 pts
--a thunder hammer or storm shield...+30 points
-Two veterans may replace their boltgun and/or boltpistol with:
--a flamer, meltagun, plasma gun, heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher...+5 pts
--a plasma cannon or heavy flamer...+10 pts
--a lascannon...+15 pts
-The Veteran Sergeant may replace his chainsword and/or bolt pistol with:
--a bolt gun with special issue ammunition, chainsword, power sword or lightning claw...+0 pts
--a combi-melta, -flamer, -plasma or a storm bolter...+5 pts
--a plasma pistol...+10 pts
--a power fist...+15 pts
--a thunder hammer or storm shield...+20 points
-Any model may take a Combat Shield...+5 pts
-Any model may take Melta bombs...+5 pts

Dedicated Transport:
-May select a Drop Pod, Rhino or Razorback

TECHMARINE...55 Points
You may take one servitor for every Vehicle taken in a Heavy Support or Elites choice (not including dedicated transports). Techmarines do not take up any Force Organization choices, but are otherwise treated as an Elites choice.

Techmarine - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Sv:2+

Unit Composition:
- 1 Techhmarine

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Artificer Armor
-Bolt Gun
-Servo-arm
-Frag and Krak grenades

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Sons of the Lion
-Independent Character
-Blessing of the Omnissiah
-Bolster Defences

Options:
-Upgrade servo-arm to a servo-harness...+25 pts
-Replace boltgun with:
--a bolt pistol...+0 pts
--a storm bolter or combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-flamer or combi-melta...10 pts
-Take either:
--a power weapon...+15 pts
--a thunder hammer...+30 pts
-May have a Space Marine Bike...+35 pts

Dedicated Transport:
-May select a Drop Pod, Rhino or Razorback

SERVITORS...20 Points
You may include one unit of servitors as a retinue for every Techmarine in your army. Servitors do not take up any Force Organization choices, but are otherwise treated as an Elites choice.

Servitor - WS:3|BS:3|S:3|T:3|W:1|I:3|A:1|Ld:7|Sv:4+

Unit Composition:
- 1 Servitor

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Servo-arm

Special Rules:
-Minlock
-Slow and Purposeful

Options:
-May include up to four additional Servitors...20 pts/model
-Any Servitor may replace their servo-arm with:
--a heavy bolter...5 pts
--a plasma cannon or multi-melta...20 pts

So, I know S&P is a pretty radical change for servitors, but I think that, plus some point changes, might be enough for people to actually take them. Plus, it kinda makes sense. They're purpose made to carry these weapons. They should be able to move while doing so.

TROOPS:

TACTICAL SQUAD...90 Points
Space Marine – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Sv:3+
Space Marine Sergeant - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+

Unit Composition:
- 4 Space Marines
-1 Space Marine Sergeant

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Gun
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Combat Squads
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion

Options:
-May include up to 5 additional Space Marines...+16 pts/model
-If the squad numbers 10 models in the squad, one Space Marine may replace his boltgun with:
--a heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher...+0 pts
--a plasma cannon...+5 pts
--a lascannon...+10 pts
-If the squad numbers 10 models in the squad, a second Space Marine may replace his boltgun with:
--a flamer, heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher...0 pts
--a meltagun, plasma gun or plasma cannon...+5 pts
--a lascannon...+10 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his boltgun and/or Bolt pistol with:
--a chainsword...0 pts
--a combi-plasma or bolt pistol...+5 pts
--a combi-melta, -flamer or plasma pistol...+10 pts
-a power weapon...+15 pts
-a power fist...+25 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may take:
--melta bombs...+5 pts
--special issue ammunition...+10 pts
--teleport homer...15 pts

Dedicated Transport:
-May select a Drop Pod, Rhino or Razorback

Ahh, the good old tactical squad. Not much different here except being able to take 2 heavy weapons instead of 1 an a special. Combat squads means you can potentially put a lot of fire power on a lot of different targets.

SCOUT SQUAD...75 Points
Scout – WS:3|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Sv:4+
Scout Sergeant - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:4+

Unit Composition:
- 4 Scouts
-1 Scout Sergeant

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Scout Armor
-Bolt Gun
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Combat Squads
-Infiltriate
-Move Through Cover
-Scouts
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion

Options:
-May include up to 5 additional Scouts...+15 pts/model
-Any model may replace his boltgun with:
--a shotgun, combat blade, or sniper rifle... 0 pts
-One Scout may replace his boltgun with:
--a flamer or Storm Bolter...+5 pts
- a meltagun, plasma gun, plasma pistol, missile launcher or heavy bolter...+10 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his boltgun and/or Bolt pistol with:
--a combi-plasma or bolt pistol...+5 pts
--a combi-melta, -flamer or plasma pistol...+10 pts
-a power weapon...+15 pts
-a power fist...+25 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may take:
--melta bombs...+5 pts
--teleport homer...+15 pts
-The Squad may have Camo Cloaks...+3 pts/model

Dedicated Transport:
-May Select a Land Speeder Storm

A bit of a mix of normal scouts, and Space Wolf scouts. I'm hoping an infiltrating meltagun might make them more popular.

SERGEANT NAAMAN...90 Points
One Scout squad in the army may replace its Scout Sergeant with Sergeant Naaman.

Sergeant Naaman - WS:5|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:4+

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Scout Armor
-Bolt Gun
-Bolt Pistol
-Master Crafted Chainsword
-Frag and Krak grenades
-Locator Beacon
-Melta bombs

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Stubborn
-Sons of the Lion
-Hunt the Fallen
-Infiltriate
-Move Through Cover
-Scouts
-Veteran Scout Squad (Scouts in a squad Sergeant Naaman is part of are BS:4 and WS:4)
-Evade Detection (An enemy unit wishing to shoot at a unit Sergeant Naaman is part of will shoot as if Night Fighting is in effect.)

Options:
Sergeant Naaman can replace his boltgun with:
--a shotgun or sniper rifle... 0 pts
--a combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-melta, -flamer or plasma pistol...+10 pts

Basically soups up a squad. I didn't want him to be a detriment to the squad, which is why he can still take most Scout Sergeant options.

FAST ATTACK:

ASSAULT SQUAD...100 Points
Space Marine – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Sv:3+
Space Marine Sergeant - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+

Unit Composition:
- 4 Space Marines
-1 Space Marine Sergeant

Unit Type:
-Jump Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Chainsword
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Combat Squads
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion

Options:
-May include up to 5 additional Space Marines... +18 pts/model
-For every 5 models in the squad, one Space Marine may replace his bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:
--a flamer or Plasma Pistol...+10 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his chainsword and/or Bolt pistol with:
--a bolt pistol
--a plasma pistol...+10 pts
--a power weapon or lightning claw...+15 pts
--a power fist...+25 pts
--a thunder hammer...+30 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may take:
--melta bombs...+5 pts
–a combat shield...+5 pts

Dedicated Transport:
-The squad may remove its jump packs. It may then have a Drop Pod for free, or a Rhino or Razorback at normal cost.

RAVENWING BIKER SQUADRON...120 Points
Space Marine Biker – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Sv:3+
Space Marine Sergeant - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+
Attack Bike – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:2|I:4|A:2|Ld:8|Sv:3+

Unit Composition:
- 2 Space Marine Bikers
-1 Biker Sergeant

Unit Type:
-Bikes

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Space Marine Bike
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades
-Locator Beacon (Biker Sergeant)

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-Scouts
-Combat Squads
-Sons of Caliban
-Hunt the Fallen

Options:
-May include up to 5 additional Space Marine Bikers...+25 pts/model
-Up to two Space Marine Bikers may replace their bolt pistols with:
--a flamer...+5 pts
--a meltagun or plasma gun...+10 pts
-The Biker Sergeant may replace his Bolt pistol with:
--a combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-melta, -flamer or plasma pistol...+10 pts
-a power weapon...+15 pts
-a power fist...+25 pts
-a thunder hammer...+30 pts
-The Biker Sergeant may take:
--melta bombs...+5 pts
--combat shield...+5 pts
-The Biker Sergeant may replace his teleport homer with:
--a locator beacon...+10 pts
-Add one heavy bolter armed attack bike to the squadron...+40 pts
-The attack bike may upgrade its heavy bolter to a multi-melta...+10 pts

A little mosre costly, but is tons better than your basic Bike squad.

RAVENWING ATTACK SQUADRON...40 Points per model
Attack Bike – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:2|I:4|A:2|Ld:8|Sv:3+

Unit Composition:
- 1-3 Attack Bikes

Unit Type:
-Bikes

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Space Marine Bike
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades
-Heavy Bolter

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-Scouts
-Hunt the Fallen

Options:
Any attack bike can replace it's heavy bolter with a multi-melta...+10 pts

RAVENWING SUPPORT SQUADRON...50 Points per model
Land Speeder – BS:4|FAV:10|SAV:10|RAV:10

Composition:
1-5 Land Speeders

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer)

Wargear:
-Heavy Bolter

Special Rules:
-Deep Strike

Options:
-Any Land Speeder may replace its heavy bolter with:
–a heavy flamer...0 pts
–a multi melta...+10 pts
-Any Land Speeder may take on of the following:
--a Typhoon Missile Launcher...+40 pts
--a heavy flamer or heavy bolter...+10 pts
--multi-melta...+20 pts
--assault cannon...+40 pts

SCOUT BIKE SQUAD...70 Points
Scout Biker – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Sv:4+
Scout Biker Sergeant - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4(5)|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:4+

Unit Composition:
- 2 Scout Bikers
-1 Scout Biker Sergeant

Unit Type:
-Bikes

Wargear:
-Scout Armor
-Space Marine Bike
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades
-Shotguns

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Scouts
-Infiltrate
-Combat Squads
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion

Options:
-May include up to 7 additional Space Marine Bikers... +20 pts/model
-One Scout Biker may replace his bolt pistol and/or shotgun with:
--a flamer...+5 pts
--a meltagun or plasma gun...+10 pts
-The Scout Biker Sergeant may replace his Bolt pistol and/or shotgun with:
--a combi-plasma...+5 pts
--a combi-melta, -flamer or plasma pistol...+10 pts
-a power weapon...+15 pts
-a power fist...+25 pts
-The Biker Sergeant may take:
--melta bombs...+5 pts
--a locator beacon...+25 pts
-The Squad may have cluster mines...+10 pts
-Up to three models may replace their bike's twin-linked boltguns with an Astartes grenade launcher...+10 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

DEATHWING FIRE SUPPORT SQUAD...40 Points per model
Terminator – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:2+

Composition:
-1-3 Terminators

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Terminator Armor
-Storm Bolter
-Power Fist

Special Rules:
-Fearless
-Deathwing Assault
-Hunt the Fallen

Options:
- Any model may:
--Replace his storm bolter with a combi-plasma, flamer, or melta...+5 pts
--Replace his storm bolter with a Heavy Flamer...+5 pts
--Replace his storm bolter with an Assault Cannon...+30 pts
--Take a Cyclone Missle launcher...+30 pts
-Any model may replace his his power fist with:
--a storm shield...+25 pts

I know what the knee jerk reaction here is gonna be, but I don;t think these guys are any worse than Long Fangs. They can't split fire, you lose more missiles when a guy dies, and they are more expensive than the 5-missle squad that's so popular.

LAND SPPEDER TEMPEST SQUADRON...125 Points per model
Land Speeder Tempest – BS:4|FAV:12|SAV:11|RAV:10

Composition:
1-3 Land Speeder Tempests

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer)

Wargear:
-Assault Cannon
-Tempest Missile Launcher

Special Rules:
-Deep Strike

I figured these would be good heavy support for a fluffy Raven Wing list. They've got both mobility and firepower. Different from the actual FW rules, I know, but I think FW over-costed them

DEVASTATOR SQUAD...90 Points
Space Marine – WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Sv:3+
Space Marine Sergeant - WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Sv:3+

Unit Composition:
- 4 Space Marines
-1 Space Marine Sergeant

Unit Type:
-Infantry

Wargear:
-Power Armor
-Bolt Gun
-Bolt Pistol
-Frag and Krak grenades
-Signum (Sergeant Only)

Special Rules:
-And They Shall Know No Fear
-Combat Squads
-Sons of Caliban
-Sons of the Lion

Options:
-May include up to 5 additional Space Marines...+16 pts/model
-Upt to 4 Space May Replace their Boltguns with:
--a heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher...+10 pts
--a plasma cannon...+15 pts
--a lascannon...+25 pts
-Every Model with a heavy bolter, multi melta, missile launcher, plasma cannon or lascannon may take:
--suspensors...+5 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his boltgun and/or Bolt pistol with:
--a chainsword...0 pts
--a combi-plasma or bolt pistol...+5 pts
--a combi-melta, -flamer, storm bolter or plasma pistol...+10 pts
-a power weapon...+15 pts
-a power fist...+25 pts
-The Space Marine Sergeant may take:
--melta bombs...+5 pts

Dedicated Transport:
-May select a Drop Pod, Rhino or Razorback

LAND RAIDER...250 Points
Land Raider – BS:4|FAV:14|SAV:14|RAV:14

Composition:
1 Land Raider

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Heavy Bolter
-Two twin-linked lascannons
-Smoke launchers
-Seachlight

Transport Capacity:
-12 Models

Special Rules:
-Power of the Machine Spirit
-Assault Vehicle

Options:
-May Take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 pts
--a hunter killer missile...+10 pts
--a multi-melta...+10 pts
--extra armor...+15 pts

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER...250 Points
Land Raider – BS:4|FAV:14|SAV:14|RAV:14

Composition:
1 Land Raider

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Twin-linked assault cannon
-Two Hurricane Bolters
-Smoke launchers
-Seachlight
-Frag Assault Launchers

Transport Capacity:
-16 Models

Special Rules:
-Power of the Machine Spirit
-Assault Vehicle

Options:
-May Take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 pts
--a hunter killer missile...+10 pts
--a multi-melta...+10 pts
--extra armor...+15 pts

LAND RAIDER HUNTER...260 Points
Land Raider – BS:4|FAV:14|SAV:14|RAV:14

Composition:
1 Land Raider

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
-Two Plasma Lances
-Smoke launchers
-Seachlight

Transport Capacity:
-12 Models

Special Rules:
-Power of the Machine Spirit
-Assault Vehicle

Options:
-May Take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 pts
--a hunter killer missile...+10 pts
--a multi-melta...+10 pts
--extra armor...+15 pts

Fluff wise, this guys purpose if more akin to the normal Land radier than the more Assualty ones like the crusader and Redeemer.

WHIRLWIND...85 Points
Whirlwind – BS:4|FAV:11|SAV:11|RAV:10

Composition:
1 Whirlwind

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Whirlwind multiple missle launcher
-Smoke launchers
-Seachlight

Options:
-May Take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 pts
--a hunter killer missile...+10 pts
--a dozer blade...+5 pts
--extra armor...+15 pts

VINDICATOR...115 Points
Vindicator – BS:4|FAV:13|SAV:11|RAV:10

Composition:
1 Vindicator

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Demolisher Cannon
-Storm bolter
-Smoke launchers
-Seachlight

Options:
-May Take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 pts
--a hunter killer missile...+10 pts
--a dozer blade...+5 pts
--a siege shield...+10 pts
--extra armor...+15 pts

PREDATOR...60 Points
Predator – BS:4|FAV:13|SAV:11|RAV:10

Unit Composition:
-1 Predator

Unit Type:
-Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Autocannon
-Smoke launchers
-Searchlight

Options:
-Replace Autocannon with:
--Twin-Linked Lascannon...+45 Points
--Plasma Lance...+50 Points
-May take side sponsons with:
--Heavy Bolters...+25 Points
--Lascannons...+60 Points
-May take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 points
--a hunter-killer missile...+10 points
--a dozer blade...+5 points
--extra armor...+15 points

MORTIS DREADNOUGHT...125 Points
Dreadnought – WS:4|BS:5|S:6|FAV:12|SAV:12|RAV:10|I:4|A:2

Unit Composition:
- 1 Dreadnought

Unit Type:
-Vehicle (Walker)

Wargear:
-Two twin-linked Heavy Bolters
-Smoke launchers
-Searchlight

Special Rules:
-Power of the Machine Spirit

Options:
-Replace both Heavy Bolters with:
–two twin-linked auto cannon or two missile launchers...+10 pts
--two assault cannons...+30 points
–Two twin-linked lascannons...+50 points
-Take extra armor...+15 points

Dedicated Transport:
-May select a Drop Pod

Again, an improvement on the FW one, which was kinda, "bleh" at best.

DEDICATED TRANSPORT

RHINO...35 Points
Rhino – BS:4|FAV:11|SAV:11|RAV:10

Composition:
1 Rhino

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Storm bolter
-Smoke launchers
-Seachlight

Transport Capacity:
-10 models

Special Rules:
-Repair

Options:
-May Take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 pts
--a hunter killer missile...+10 pts
--a dozer blade...+5 pts
--extra armor...+15 pts

RAZORBACK...40 Points
Razorback – BS:4|FAV:11|SAV:11|RAV:10

Composition:
1 Razorback

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Tank)

Wargear:
-Twin Linked Heavy Bolter
-Smoke launchers
-Seachlight

Transport Capacity:
-6 models

Options:
-Replace twin-inked heavy bolters with:
--twin-linked heavy flamer...+25 pts
--twin-linked assault cannon...+35 pts
--twin-linked lascannon...+35 pts
-lascannon and twin linked plasma gun...35 pts
-May Take any of the following:
--a storm bolter...+10 pts
--a hunter killer missile...+10 pts
--a dozer blade...+5 pts
--extra armor...+15 pts

DROP POD...35 Points
Drop Pod – BS:4|FAV:12|SAV:12|RAV:12

Composition:
1 Drop Pod

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Open Topped)

Wargear:
-Storm bolter

Transport Capacity:
-10 models or one Dreadnought

Special Rules:
-Inertial Guidance System
-Immobile
-Drop Pod Assault

Options:
-Replace storm bolter with deathwind missile launcher...20 pts
-Take a locator beacon...10 pts

LAND SPEEDER STORM...50 Points
Land Speeder Storm – BS:3|FAV:10|SAV:10|RAV:10

Composition:
1 Land Speeder Storm

Unit Type:
Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer, Open Topped)

Wargear:
-Heavy bolter
-Jamming Beacon
-Cerberus launcher

Transport Capacity:
-5 models in scout armor

Special Rules:
-Deep Strike
-Scouts

Options:
-Replace Heavy Bolter with:
--heavy flamer...+10 pts
--multi-melta...+15 pts
--assault cannon...+35 pts
-Replace Jamming beacon with:
--locator beacon...0 pts
-Take locator beacon...+15 pts

These were never super popular outside of alpha striking lists, because they competed with some great Fast attack choices, which is double true here, because of Ravenwing choices. The problem is fixed by making Storms DT, which is something they should have done for the C:SM book.

And there you have it. I designed the list with three or four primary builds in mind. Ravenwing, and Deathwing, obviously. Cypher also makes a big plasma gunline kind of list possible. The way Techmarines can be taken also makes a durable mechanized list possible, which reflects one of the overall themes for design. That, of course, is that nothing in this list is going to go anywhere unless you want it to. Almost everything here is stubborn or fearless. The other design was cheap plasma, which is, of course, a double edged sword. If you take more plasma, you're going to take more wounds from Gets Hot!.

I'm not really a Dark Angels guy, as I've said, which means I'm not into the fluff so much, so I'm sure I'll piss off some of the DA purists here. My overall goals here were to streamline and simplify, and to bring this army in line with other 5th Ed. MEQ books, which I think I've done.

The goal for version 2.0 (versions 1.x being corrections and minor changes) is to have a complete bestiary and armory sections. Hopefully version 3.0 could bring about a well formatted PDF booklet.

So, please, let me have your comments and constructive criticism.

**grayspark**

This looks really great.

I hate to be a nit-picker, but if you're going to stick this into some kind of a PDF codex with copy+paste you oughtta fix these.

LIBRARIAN...100 Points
WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:2|I:4|A:2|Ld:10|Sv:3+
Composition:
-1 Chaplain

CHAPLAIN...100 Points
WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:2|I:4|A:2|Ld:10|Sv:3+
Composition:
-1 Captain

I love the stubborn, the plasma focus, and the Jetbikes.

I'm afraid I'm disappointed that there isn't that much in the way of Preferred-enemy, as I always thought of the Deathwing and Ravenwing (Especially the Ravenwing) as getting Preferred enemy and such.

Maybe letting the Ravenwing choosing an enemy HQ or squad to have preferred enemy against to be picked before deployment? To symbolize their fervor and relentless hunt of that individual or individuals.

**Kanluwen**

The one thing I'd do is remove Thunderhammers and give them a "Fang of Caliban".

Master-Crafted Power Sword with an "Overload" effect against vehicles.

Feels more fluffy for a Chapter where the first thing you get upon your initiation is an amazing sword, right?

**Commander Endova**

Good eye! I went and fixed those up. Thanks.

I suppose I understand what you mean about preffered enemy. I'm a bit hesitant to give Raven Wing and Deathwing Squads anything else. They've already got Fearless. I suppose I could give Chaplains and Interrogators Preferred Enemy instead of the normal Liturgies charging bonus. I mean... If Wolf Priests can have it...

**timetowaste85**

To me, this looks mostly well done, but I had a couple of concerns: those Plasma Lances seem exceptionally powerful for the slight increase in cost for the Land Raider hunters-I was wondering if those should maybe be bumped up more than 10 points (I suppose playtesting will work it out if it is ok as is) and the Holy Strike: is that kind of like how Blood Angels vanguard vets are? Or does this allow ICs to join the units? If it allows ICs to join the unit and still do this, that is probably OP, unless it comes at a HUGE points cost. I was having trouble locating what models could take it, so I just wanted to check on that. Those are just 2 concerns I had, everything else looks great!

**Commander Endova**

I agree about Plasma Lances. I know they're powerful, in theory. I don't think I'll be able to know a good points cost until I try them out.

The only units with Holy Pursuit are Belial and Deathwing Command Squads. So, a specific IC can join, I guess. I should go back and re-word the rule so there's no confusion about other ICs. Thanks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:The one thing I'd do is remove Thunderhammers and give them a "Fang of Caliban".

Master-Crafted Power Sword with an "Overload" effect against vehicles.

Feels more fluffy for a Chapter where the first thing you get upon your initiation is an amazing sword, right?

I like the concept, Kan. I was trying to think of some different wargear options. It feels like alot of their stuff is the same. How should this overload affect work? Thunder hammers always cause a stunned result if they roll on either damage chart, but a weapon weilded by an S4 Model won't always do that...

**Kanluwen**

That's the question, isn't it?

I mean, if I were to do an "overload" effect...I'd say:

-Against vehicles, it can cause a "immobilized" result and prevent the firing of any non-defensive weapon for a turn.
-Against models with an invulnerable save, it forces a D6 roll. On a roll of a 1 or 6, it "overloads" the source of the Invulnerable save(be it a force field generator, a psychically generated shield, whatever) making the model unable to use it for that round of combat.

Of course, you need something to really balance out that effect. Make it so the test is taken all at once, rather than individually for each strike(to prevent Terminator swarms being able to prevent a vehicle from firing an entire game or characters/models having a ridiculously high chance of losing their invulnerable save).

Another thing I've always thought that feels really fluffy for Dark Angels is something that was in the Fallen Angels/Descent of Angels novels.

Brother-Redemptors. Crashcourse in history: They were predecessors(of a sort) to the standard Chaplains that you see in all the major Chapters. Brother-Redemptors were members of Dark Angels squads who were, from amongst the squad, nominated as the "most exemplary example of Astartes loyalty, mirroring Lion El'Jonson himself". They weren't Sergeants, they held no real leadership role. They were just...there. They rallied the troops and usually led the way into close combat. The Sergeants looked to them as a moral compass, gauging the choices they made.

Bear with me here. Interrogator-Chaplains make no sense on the battlefield. They're Chaplains who hold the Chapter's deepest, darkest, and most valuable secrets. They're also the only ones who really have access to the Fallen who've been taken, they're also supposed to be diligently working their arses off breaking those Fallen.

They shouldn't be on the field smashing heads and making goofy speeches. They should be in their interrogation chambers, spattered in blood and wreathed by the protestations and curses of the Fallen they're questioning.

So I vote:
Knock out Interrogator-Chaplains, period from the army list. Allow Deathwing squads and Tactical Squads to, for a price, get a "Brother-Redemptor" for +25 points. Have him come with a Power Sword+Bolt Pistol or Plasma Pistol(as they usually maintained the weapons they had before they were selected, with a Crozius Arcanum very very rarely being awarded. Mostly they were identifiable because they changed one of their shoulderpads to feature a roaring Calibanite Lion in some way incorporated with their heraldry). Brother-Redemptors should replace a "rank and file" model, so that it's not an additional model.

And as another aside...
"Hunt the Fallen" should apply to any Deathwing unit, any character(Ravenwing, Deathwing, whatever. They're all inducted into the Inner Circle before they are really allowed into leadership roles), and whatever Scout Squad that Sergeant Naaman joins. I'd almost say the Venerable Dreadnoughts should get it too.

Remember: Interrogator Chaplains don't really have a cornerstone on "hunting" the Fallen. They just have a list of who the Fallen are.

I know that's alot, but I've been thinking on alot of the same things

I've just been writing them down though, not making a post.

**grayspark**

Commander Endova wrote:Good eye! I went and fixed those up. Thanks.

I suppose I understand what you mean about preffered enemy. I'm a bit hesitant to give Raven Wing and Deathwing Squads anything else. They've already got Fearless. I suppose I could give Chaplains and Interrogators Preferred Enemy instead of the normal Liturgies charging bonus. I mean... If Wolf Priests can have it...

How about if you have the Master of the Ravenwing then all Ravenwing units get Preferred-enemy?

Shows just how important the situation is for him to make an appearance.

Or how about getting extra kill-points for capturing an enemy HQ that could be one of the "Unforgiven"

Edit: Haha, one last edit. Hows your thoughts on a Chaplain Dreadnaught? Give preferred enemy to all within 6" due to his heroic appearance and Chaplain Liturgies.

**Commander Endova**

@Kan: Fluff wise, I agree about the interrogator chaplain. Game wise, the goal was to have an analogue to the BA Reclusiarch. Though, maybe since I've already got him as unique, I could remove his options and make him into Asmodai?

Also, are there any well known Brother Redemptors? And could you expect to see them in any squad, or just high profile ones, like Ravenwing or Deathwing squads? Are they still even around in M40?

I think I can kill two birds with one stone here.

@ Grayspark: Taking master of the Ravenwing already unlocks them all as as troop choices, so I'm really hesistant for him to have another army wide thing. Maybe the squad he rides with can get it? Alternatively, I could have an upgrade Character (Kind of Like Naaman) that can join any ones squad in the army, and give that squad Preferred Enemy, and I suppose LD 10

Also, the chaplain Dreadnought completely slipped my mind, but is something that would fit very well, I think.

**Kanluwen**

As far as I know they're still around. The only real "well-known" Brother-Redemptor I can think of was Nemiel, but they gave a really good in-depth look at them--and it made it pretty self-evident that they would be present in any squad that opted to elect one. Deathwing, Ravenwing, Tactical, etc.

But for game purposes, I'd really just restrict them to Deathwing and Tactical squads. Have them give their squad Litanies of Battle, and voila. A uniquely Dark Angels unit upgrade, that's also pretty cool.

As for Asmodai...they removed him for a reason

That reason being "He's got far, far more important things to be doing than waving a stick at the enemy."

**Xyon**

I love it! I have a few notes as well, master of death/ravenwing given normal MC power weapons? not even S5 or relic blades?

Ravenwing command can take relic blades on all members, deathwing cant, I'm guessing intentional?

Regular command squad wargear:
-Power Armor
-Boltgun
-Frag and Krak Grenades
-Chainsword
-The Apothecary also has a Narthecium
Model Options:
- Any Veteran may replace bolt pistol/chainsword with:
--a Boltgun...0 pts

Also, what does the Epistle upgrade for a librarian do?

I love the new land raider.

**Commander Endova**

Good eye, Xyon. Fixed that typo.

Yes, the Deathwing Command Squad not having access relic blades is intentional. Terminators with a higher strength and no initiative penalty blurs the line between broken and balanced.

**asimo77**

Really liking this, making a cool chapter even cooler. I wish I could give out more helpful/specific advice then "awesome job keep it up!" but I got to go to class.

Definitley going to follow this thread!

**Xyon**

I was thinking. The vehicle squadron rules are pretty lame as they currently are. Maybe give ravenwing support squads the combat squad rule so they can split off into individual units?

**Commander Endova**

A valid argument, but I'm not sure. Giving them straight up Combat Squads doesn't work, since combat squads only works with a full squad, and I don;t want to force people to take 5. And I'm not convinced on the idea. Don;t get me wrong, I hate the squadron rules as much as the next guy, but that's the way it is right now. I don;t see why Dark Angels should get to ignore these particular rules.

**punkow**

Like it very much!!! Nice job... The only things that might have problems are tactical squads and the watchers... Tactical squads have too much options for heavy and special weapons for a very low cost... and they're not forced to build a 10 men squad to have them like everybody else...They're going to be the best troop choice of the game in this way (cept for grey hunters but the doggy vikings aren't good examples of balanced armies)
My proposal is in my thread about DA fandex ...
right now I'm writing my fandex in pdf but the university take a lot of time so i'm going very slow...

The watchers instead seems a little... poor... I expected much more... I like very much the Deathwing heavy support team and be sure they're absolutely not OP... in reality maybe you can find something to make the a little more resilient against enemy fire? (i know 2+/5++ is good but for 70 points each with the cyclone they're going to be wiped out by the first plasma ... maybe make them more expensiveto give'em 2 wounds??? (loyalist obliterators???) or they have everytime bolster defenses to make good use of cover? or maybe give em SS???
just some thought...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
... And Belial should have EW... fluff-wise he should... Ghazghkull crushed him in his PK and he's still alive...

**Commander Endova**

I agree with you on the Tac squads, but for the life of me, I can't figure out the right wording. I was going to say "If a squad number 10 models, 2 Space Marines may replace their boltguns with:" but if I just made one long list, you'd be able to take 2 meltaguns or such. Any other way I tried to word it seemed too complicated. I figure 5 guys with one missile launcher isn't terrible, anyway. Its still a lot of points (100) for one, and you lose mobility with it, unlike 5 Grey Hunters with a Meltagun, wich is 80 points.

I don;t know what you expect me to do with watchers! lol. It's not like we know anything about them, really. I figured paying 20 points for an additional wound is a pretty cool advantage, no?

I suppose you could be right about Deathwatch Support Squads... I'd want to play test them first, though I suppose I could do a "Any model may exchange his power fist for:
-a Storm Shield...20 points"

Good point on Belial. I realize I don;t have any EWs in this list. I supose I should include one.

**Xyon**

For the tac squads, how about wording it something like.... "for the first 5 marines in a squad, any model may replace bolter with:" And then "if 10 models are taken, a second marine may replace its bolter with: "

As for the support squad, the ravenwing attack squad combat squad rules are different than the regular combat squad rules for tac/dev/assault/etc squads. RW support squads could have their own version too. Something like.

"When you deploy your RW support squad, you can choose to split off as many landspeeders as in the squad to act as an independent squad" something like that.

I didnt see the DW heavy support squad, now that I do, I think it should be 5 members in the squad, but limit the heavy weapons to 2 or 3 members of that squad.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

exactly how are the plasma lances mounted on the hunter? similarly is that have bolter linked?

**Commander Endova**

They're sponson mounted, like Lascannons on a normal Land Raider. The bolter should be Twin Linked. If it isn't, it's a typo.

**punkow**

This was my proposal... of the tactical squad. consider that in my fandex every time a plasma gets hot you can ignore it rolling a 4+ on 1d6 so plasma are slightly better than usual ones.... anyway:

TACTICAL SQUAD

90 points

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 3+ Space Marine
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 8 3+ Veteran Sergeant

COMPOSITION:
4 Space Marine
1 Veteran Sergeant

SPECIAL RULES:
And they shall know no fear
Stubborn
Combat squads

EQUIPMENT:
Power armour
Bolt pistol
Boltgun
Frag and Krak Grenades

OPTIONS:
The squad can include up to five additional marines
-16 points each
If the squad include 10 models one marine can replace his boltgun with
- Flamer: free
- Meltagun: 10 points
- Plasma gun : 15 points
- Plasma Cannon : 20 points
If the squad include 10 models one marine can replace his boltgun with
- Heavy bolter, Multi-melta, missile launcher: free
- Plasma cannon: 5 points
- Lascannon : 10 points
- Plasma gun : 15 points
The Veteran Sergeant can replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with
- Chainsword : free
- Combiweaponor a Storm bolter: 10 points
- Plasma pistol or a power weapon: 15 points
- Power fist : 25 points
The Veteran Sergeant can take
- Melta bombs: 5 points
- Teleport homer: 15 points

the squad can take a rhino, razorback or Drop pod

This is the exact wording of codex:SM

Maybe 20 points for the plasma cannon in the special weapon slot is a little bit high but this is to compensate the fact that 2 special weapons or 2 heavy weapons are far better than 1 special and 1 heavy even within the combat squad system (consider that lots of transports are made for ten men squads: rhinos, drop pods, land raiders if you are strange enough to put a tactical on a LR...)

**Just Dave**

Hey Endova, a great Fandex I must say, largely well balanced, though-out, easy to read and over-all a very good representation. I also don't play Dark Angels but was intending to do a fandex which I think would've been quite similar, but I have to admit, worse than yours. I'm currently taking on the poison chalice of a CSM fandex instead...
Nonetheless, I think you've done a very good job and I intend to contribute to this thread as much as I can to help you out and I really know what you mean about it being a 'labour of love'; people shouldn't underestimate the effort gone into these.

Obviously the vast majority of the Codex is very good and you should be rightly proud of it, I'm not going to point out every aspect of it and obviously my posts will focus on the negative as I seek to help you iron out any flaws with the Codex rather than compliment you at every corner!

anyways, I have a couple of thoughts/suggestions after my first read-through:

- I hate to say it but I don't like your incarnation of Tactical Squads/their ability to have 2 heavy weapons; what this screams to me is that it'll further encourage Razorback spam, whereby the player can easily access an extra heavy weapon AND the heavy weapon on the Razorback, I'd recommend either having 2 at 10 (or nothing), or I will also suggest what I would've done in my fandex, which is to allow to-hit rolls of 1 to be re-rolled, which - whilst subtle - should increase firepower and reliability, not encourage razorback spam (a key avoidance for me) and ultimately further display their plasma affinity as it means potentially re-rolling any gets-hot results...

- I'm unsure about the Plasma Lance... I can see what you're going for here and I respect it - although are the DA's really that much about Plasma rather than just shooting? - but I struggle to see what role it achieves... Ultimately I'd argue Lance to be kind of wasted on it as with Str 7, you still need a 6 to penetrate with Lance in effect, which it would anyway against AV12, what it does mean though is that it can threaten AV13/14 but I don't know whether that's really needed...

- I'd say Belial's pretty under-costed, almost severely in fact. He's 30pts more than his equivalent standard HQ but comes pre-equipped with TDA, Sword of Silence and all his bonuses. Also, I'd argue that the Heavy-Support Deathwing should only be available under Belial as they'd surely be rarer than their elite buddies. Otherwise I'd say the Heavy Support Termies are a good inclusion and well balanced.

- I really like your Deathwing terminators, what it means is - which is exactly what I was intending to do with mine - is that you could combat squad them to get a unit of assault termies and also a unit of tactical termies with TWO heavy weapons, which is perfect IMHO, good job man. Maybe increase the cost of TH/SS though, akin to BA's? I'd also say a Relic Blade should be at-least +10pts, rather than 5pts, but those are relatively minor IMHO.

- A small qualm is the Apothecary in the Ravenwing command squad, I can see the benefit in-game, but I really can't imagine an apothecary saving a guys life or extracting his gene-seed as his zips around on a Space Marine Bike let alone Jetbike?!
I like the command squad and jetbike inclusion though, I was going to go for something similar but have a lance-type CCW and not have Jetbikes, but I think they quite suit Jetbikes in retrospect. Note however that they can't actually access Power Weapons...

- Finally I'd say the Tempest is under-costed, if you compare it's 100pts price to that of a typhoon, it has (arguably, but likely IMHO) more firepower, much better durability but is only 10pts extra?

As I said though, I'm largely really impressed, I hope that helps and I'll be sure to suggest more revisions if you'd like. Well done man.

**Commander Endova**

Just Dave wrote:Hey Endova, a great Fandex I must say, largely well balanced, though-out, easy to read and over-all a very good representation. I also don't play Dark Angels but was intending to do a fandex which I think would've been quite similar, but I have to admit, worse than yours. I'm currently taking on the poison chalice of a CSM fandex instead...
Nonetheless, I think you've done a very good job and I intend to contribute to this thread as much as I can to help you out and I really know what you mean about it being a 'labour of love'; people shouldn't underestimate the effort gone into these.

Obviously the vast majority of the Codex is very good and you should be rightly proud of it, I'm not going to point out every aspect of it and obviously my posts will focus on the negative as I seek to help you iron out any flaws with the Codex rather than compliment you at every corner! anyways, I have a couple of thoughts/suggestions after my first read-through:

I appreciate all the kind words, and your contributions!

- I hate to say it but I don't like your incarnation of Tactical Squads/their ability to have 2 heavy weapons; what this screams to me is that it'll further encourage Razorback spam, whereby the player can easily access an extra heavy weapon AND the heavy weapon on the Razorback, I'd recommend either having 2 at 10 (or nothing), or I will also suggest what I would've done in my fandex, which is to allow to-hit rolls of 1 to be re-rolled, which - whilst subtle - should increase firepower and reliability, not encourage razorback spam (a key avoidance for me) and ultimately further display their plasma affinity as it means potentially re-rolling any gets-hot results...

Razorback spam was not my intention. I can see your point, but both Space Wolves and Blood Angels get fairly unique troop aspects, and of course, I wanted the same for my Dark Angels. And of course, they cant do it any better than SW's can. I designed the whole 'dex to be more shooty than the Vanilla 'dex, and more heavy weapons (which remembers, come at the cost of mobility) was a great way to do that.

I'm not opposed to limiting all heavy and special weapons to a 10 man squad, but I'm having trouble with the wording. I can't find the right way to convey the point. I'll illustrate with the following examples:

"-If the squad number 10 models, one Space Marine may replace with his boltgun with:
-heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher...0 pts
-a plasma cannon...+10 pts
-a Lascannon...+15 pts
-If the squad numbers 10 models, one space marine may replace his boltgn with:
-heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher or flamer...0 pts
-a meltagun...+5 pts
-a plasma cannon or plasma gun...+10 pts
-a Lascannon...+15 pts"

Imagine reading that without the prior knowledge that the intent is for a tac squad to take 2 heavy weapons or one heavy and one special weapon. Would the wording here not be confusing?

And obviously I can't do:

"If the the squad equals 10 models, up to 2 Space Marines may replace their boltguns with:
-heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher or flamer...0 pts
-a meltagun...+5 pts
-a plasma cannon or plasma gun...+10 pts
-a Lascannon...+15 pts"

Then you could take 2 special weapons, which is not the intent.

So you see where the problem lays. I know there's a solution. I'm having writer's block in regard to a wording I'm comfortable with.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Dave wrote:- I'm unsure about the Plasma Lance... I can see what you're going for here and I respect it - although are the DA's really that much about Plasma rather than just shooting? - but I struggle to see what role it achieves... Ultimately I'd argue Lance to be kind of wasted on it as with Str 7, you still need a 6 to penetrate with Lance in effect, which it would anyway against AV12, what it does mean though is that it can threaten AV13/14 but I don't know whether that's really needed...

Yes. It has the same chance of penetrating a land raider as a twin linked las-cannon, and is worse against light vehicles. to make up for that, it is an ordnance weapon, (so, two chances to pen instead of two chances to hit. When you hit at 66%, (BS4) id rather re roll the ~16% chance to penetrate. It's also a small blast. So in addition to having an okay chance at taking down a Land Raider, it can still essentially be a Plasma cannon if you need it to. Dark Angels players have been irked that the didn't get the Redeemer, so this is sort of makes up for that. :p

I don;t think Dark Angels have any particular affinity for plasma weapons, but part of their lore that I've always latched onto is the fact that they have more heresy era junk lying around than most other chapters. Plasma is an archaic, hard to understand technology, so it suits.

- I'd say Belial's pretty under-costed, almost severely in fact. He's 30pts more than his equivalent standard HQ but comes pre-equipped with TDA, Sword of Silence and all his bonuses. Also, I'd argue that the Heavy-Support Deathwing should only be available under Belial as they'd surely be rarer than their elite buddies. Otherwise I'd say the Heavy Support Termies are a good inclusion and well balanced.

That may very well be true. I simply ripped his points cost from the existing DA codex. I think this is one of those things that can only be hammered out through some play testing and list building.

I can't say I agree with your Deathwing Support squad suggestion, though I'm glad you like them. Belial already makes Deathwing Squads troops choices, and unlocks the Deathwing Command squad. I fell like any more alteration to the FOC would be too much. I think rarity is acheived by the fact that at most, you can take 9 of them. What's more, does this mean that Ravenwing Support Squads should only be available with Sammael?

- I really like your Deathwing terminators, what it means is - which is exactly what I was intending to do with mine - is that you could combat squad them to get a unit of assault termies and also a unit of tactical termies with TWO heavy weapons, which is perfect IMHO, good job man. Maybe increase the cost of TH/SS though, akin to BA's? I'd also say a Relic Blade should be at-least +10pts, rather than 5pts, but those are relatively minor IMHO.

Thanks! My goal here was to make Deathwing bar-none, the most viable all-terminator army in the game, which I think is something I feel DA deserves. To that end, I took the best aspects of both Vanilla termies, and SW termies. Again, I'm sure that some play testing could resolve these issues.

- A small qualm is the Apothecary in the Ravenwing command squad, I can see the benefit in-game, but I really can't imagine an apothecary saving a guys life or extracting his gene-seed as his zips around on a Space Marine Bike let alone Jetbike?!
I like the command squad and jetbike inclusion though, I was going to go for something similar but have a lance-type CCW and not have Jetbikes, but I think they quite suit Jetbikes in retrospect. Note however that they can't actually access Power Weapons...

Haha! Fair enough. I can see your point. However, I think die hard Raven Wing fans would be upset if their build was the only one that couldn't have an Apothecary. Good eyes on the power weapon thing! Also, do you mind if I snag that Lance type CCW? I think I have an idea for that...

- Finally I'd say the Tempest is under-costed, if you compare it's 100pts price to that of a typhoon, it has (arguably, but likely IMHO) more firepower, much better durability but is only 10pts extra?

True. I hadn't considered that. I was looking at the Forge World rules and felt that it was vastly over-costed for what it did. What would you suggest for a points cost?

All in all, thanks for the pointers. A lot to consider.

To all reading, would it be too much to ask to have you guys come up with some lists using this dex? I'm sure you guys could see some pretty cool combination that I couldn't. I'm also biased towards certain units, so I'd like some impartial builds.

I'm still working on the Interrogator-Chaplain/Redemptor thing. It's just a matter of typing it out, which I'm procrastinating on.

**Just Dave**

Thanks Endova, glad I can (hopefully) be of help!

I can see that Razorback spam isn't your intention and I didn't intend to imply otherwise, it's just a result of the current rules. I can see the problems you're having in terms of wording and I'd usually say the former is better, although as you pointed out, it may be a bit

for newbies...
I'd still argue for my original idea of re-rolling ones (maybe force-wide, instead of stubborn?!), however I'll suggest wording akin to this:

-If the squad number 10 models, one Space Marine may replace with his boltgun with:
- heavy bolter or flamer...0 pts
- missile launcher, meltagun or multi-melta... +5pts
- plasma gun or plasma cannon...+10 pts
- Lascannon...+15 pts

-Furthermore, if the squad numbers 10 models, than an additional Space Marine may replace his boltgun with:
-heavy bolter...0 pts
-Multi-melta or Missile Launcher...+5 pts
-Plasma Cannon...+10 pts
-Lascannon...+15 pts

As you recognise, the wording's still a bit odd, but IMHO it ultimately achieves the desired effect whilst preventing any abuse of the rules. Note: I would also up the points costs as they are; a Lascannon for 10pts or a Plasma Cannon for 5pts is VERY cheap.
But yes, I can definitely see where the problem lays atm. In terms of the sacrifice of mobility as a method of balance, that is easily solved with Combat Squads...
Good Luck with the wording though man, I get the impression you'll need it!

I can see what you mean about the Plasma Lance and I can most certainly see the benefit to it, but personally I'd still not use one in an army list as it doesn't really fill any role particularly well IMHO. I'd ultimately always take the cheaper Plasma or Las-cannon...

You raise a very good point about the Deathwind Support Squad, I have to agree with your reasoning, just keep 'em as they are I guess. Ultimately what I meant was that you could still take a Terminator squad in a normal list, whereas I'd be surprised to see a Support squad in such an army. As I said though, you have a good point and I guess no change is needed.

I definitely still feel Belial needs points cost uppering (new word, I know) as I'd take him over a captain just for his comparative price.
I think you've represented the Deathwing well though, as you said though, play-testing will be the best way to decide this and any other potential issues though...

Oh yeah, as you said I completely agree that Ravenwing fans would want an Apothecary, I just struggle to see/imagine it working out-side of the game... But then again, there's bigger problems within 40K.
But yes, by all means, snag away, help yourself man.

I haven't really seen the Forge-World rules so I couldn't say but I guess in its current state I'd suggest at-least 125pts?
Considering you get an assault cannon, +2 front armour and +1 side armour and removal of open-topped...

I'm glad I can help though, I'll be sure to offer some more to think about

.
Speaking of which, I noticed this for the Company Veterans:
"-May include up to 5 additional veterans... +25 pts/model
-Any Veteran may replace his boltgun and/or chainsword with:
--a chainsword...0 pts
--a combi-melta, bolt pistol -flamer, -plasma or a storm bolter...+5 pts"

Think something's gone wrong here?

I'll be happy to try and make a couple of lists though, I'll go for a WAAC and personal list if you want and get back to you...

I haven't really looked at him yet, but what's the problem with the Interrogator? I have to agree with your inclusion of them, as despite other arguments they never have that many people to interrogate and despite being Dark Angels and specialised, Space Marines are always warriors first...

Once again though, good work man, I look forward to building a couple of lists from it.

**punkow**

the last wording is good... anyway I took my example from th vanilla marines codex... I don't think it's so confusing... anyway I would allow dual heavy or dual special, but only if they're plasmas with an increased cost...

About the watchers.... I know it's not simple to flesh out their rule... but I'd like to see them as elite choices a la sanguinary priest, with limited psychic powers to help the squads... I made some rules but I realise they're still very imperfect and I didn't playtested them.... Btw I'll post them here

Watchers in the dark

You can take 1-5 Watchers as a single elite choice for 35 points each

Stats
WS: 4, BS: 4, S: 1, T: 4, W: 1, I: 1, A: 0 Ld. 1 Sv. none

Special Rules
Independent character
Ephemeral:
Watchers do not seem to conform to the laws of physics. They occupy no space in transports and can never have wounds assigned to them. They move with the same movement profile as the rest of the unit. If no other members of unit remain, remove them from play. The unit is counted as destroyed.
Aura of darkness:
The unit the watcher is attached to gain +1 to his cover save. If the unit is not in cover, it gains a 5+ cover save
Whispering your guilt:
A Watcher is a psyker. he automatically pass any psychic test, but it's still subject to other effects such as a psychic hoods. He can cast one of his power at the start of each turn before any other action (So it must be already on the table to cast his powers)
- inspiration of the dark ones:
The unit the watcher is with MUST repeat any failed morale or pinning test but can't go to ground voluntarily
-Steady as the Lion:
The unit the watcher is with gain the slow and purposeful USR for this turn but can't assault
-Fury of the unyelding spirits:
The unit the watcher is with gain the counter-attack special rule until your next turn but cannot move.

**Devastator**

belial still lacks iron halo

ot have you checked your sig shop?

**Commander Endova**

@Just Dave: Thinking about it, I agree Belial needs to be more costly. Any suggestions?

The FW tempest rules are 120 points for a much worse vehicle. I suppose making it 125 would be fair. Good spot on the veterans. I'd like to fix it, but Im stuck on an iPad, which is annoying to type on.

@punkow: I appreciate the suggestion, bu I believe we have radically different visions of the Watchers.

@Devastator: Ah. Good call another thing I'll have to edit when I get the chance.

I haven't checked the sig thread in a while. Ive rather lost enthusiasm for the project unfortunately.

**Just Dave**

Well a standard Master with Terminator Armour is 140pts and on top of that Belial has a Standard, +1WS, Master-crafted and a whole load of special rules. I'd say 165pts maybe? I think the cost of Deathwing Terminators should compensate for their making a troop choice to an extent...

haha! Stuck on an iPad?! Awww poor you!

To be honest man I have noticed a few other 'flaws' in my attempts to make an army list:
- There is no option for 4-man Terminator units, meaning that they can't actually fit in a LR with a HQ...
- There's nothing stating the role of Command Squads within the FoC (I don't have the SM Codex, so although I'm confident of how they work I can't be sure), then again you may be saving this explanation as well as those for 'Supreme Grand Master' etc for V.2 which I can understand.
- I don't see why a Mortis is BS5? To me BS4 is compensated by the amount of twin-linked weapons he brings.
- A Deathwing terminator sergeant, according to your wording at-least, could have a Relic Blade and Storm Shield for only 5pts extra and I'm unsure whether such wording is supposed to enable them to have either Twin Lightning Claw, TH/SS builds or any build such as PF/SS?
- I'm unsure as to why Assault Cannons are more expensive than multi-melta's on dreads?
- A Company Veteran Sergeant can get a power sword or lightning claw for free...

Once again, these are relatively minor though and possibly just complications with wording. Nonetheless I'm currently working on 2 1750pts lists...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK Endova, here's a semi-competitive Ravenwing list I made, more intended for friendly purposes but I expect it could hold its own in most cases or competitive play.

HQ:

Sammael – 205pts

Ravenwing Command Squad – 295pts
- 2x Power Fist
- 2x Storm Shield
- 1x Twin-linked Plasma Gun

Troops:

Scout Squad (5) – 100pts
-4x Sniper Rifle
-1x Missile Launcher
-Camo Cloaks

Scout Squad (5) – 100pts
-4x Sniper Rifle
-1x Missile Launcher
-Camo Cloaks

Ravenwing Biker Squadron (5) – 230pts
- Meltagun
- Multimelta Attack Bike

Ravenwing Biker Squadron (5) – 230pts
- Meltagun
- Multimelta Attack Bike

Ravenwing Biker Squadron (5) – 210pts
- Heavy Bolter Attack Bike

Fast Attack:

Ravenwing Support Squadron (2) – 120pts
- Multimelta

Ravenwing Support Squadron (2) – 120pts
- Multimelta

Ravenwing Support Squadron (2) – 140pts
- Multimelta, Heavy Flamer

Total: 1750pts

The intention would be for most of the Two Melta Bike squads to scout onto either flank, supported by the Land Speeder Squadrons, with the MM/HF squadron going wherever. Whilst Sammeal and his buddies act as an anchor for the middle, supported by the other biker squad and the scouts.
Not masses of anti-infantry but the mobility should compensate for that and not too many kill points and plenty of scoring units. I'm happy with it at-least and it looks like good fun to play whilst been fairly competitive. The prices seem fair too. Although Biker Squadrons may still be a bit pricey but that's typical really.

I did notice btw that once again, Command Squads (Jetbikes) can't take Power Weapons and this: "-One Jetbike may replace its twin-linked boltgun with a twin linked plasmagun...+15 pts" whereas it's actually a TL storm bolter...

**Commander Endova**

See? This is why I need good editors like you.

Good catch on the Terminator thing. I'll double check the DA codex to see what they did and what's possible. Though if it comes down to it, Ill just do what Matt Ward did and make 12 man LRs.

Ahh. I forgot to list their requirements. In the normal SM book, one command squad can be taken for every captain in your list and they do not take up a HQ slot. I suppose here I'll make them available to everyone, like the BAs.

Well, BS5 hits on 2s plus twin linked means this guy missing is quite an event indeed. I envisioned these guys as Venerable Dreadnoughts that are quite simply, crack shots because they've spent so much time in their dual-weapon configuration. Some Dreadnought pattern weapons just happen to be twin linked, which is what it is. Missle launchers aren't, and a think a pair of those at BS5 is something most players would salivate at.

The Deathwing Sergeant should be able to have any combo, like any of his subordinates. However I agree now that 5 points may be low for such a potent combo. I'll up it to 10.

I took the Dreadnought points costs from C:SM. I'll double check that I priced it correctly.

The free power weapon was intentional. Vanguard Veterans come equipped with one. The intent here was that he can trade his bolt gun (and special issue ammo) for a power weapon, though I suppose my wording is at fault. I'll change it to reflect the intent better, now that you've pointed it out.

Good eyes on the Ravenwing Command squad. I was sure I had fixed them. For all intents and purposes the Should have Power Wepaons for 15 points.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I appreciate the list. I feel like that is what a Ravenwing list should look like, so mission accomplished there. Since I hadn't adequately explained that Command Squads, Ravenwing or otherwise don't take up a slot, would knowing that have changed your list at all?

**Devastator**

one thing i noticed
deathwing command can take ravenwing banner