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Hello, this thread is for the discussion on how to use and implement strategies, and various tactics for the Swarmlord.

Over the weekend I played my friend as tyranids, and I was amazed at the amount of firepower the Swarmlord and his 2 tyrant guard took, my friend played Imperial Guard, so all my guants got leman russ smashed, and in the end the Swarmlord still stood (my 100 model count army reduced to under 20 models by turn 5, with the Swarmlord on his last wound, both his guard dead, and contesting my opponents objective as I still controlled mine, winning by a nads hair).

I have made this post mostly to convince people that the Swarmlords ridicules pts cost (280 pts) is worth it, considering how damage he can take and still be left standing, along with all his extra cool abilities.

A normal tyant with a 2+ save would have been better to withstand such amazing firepower

Brood Lord wrote:Hello, this thread is for the discussion on how to use and implement strategies, and various tactics for the Swarmlord.

Over the weekend I played my friend as tyranids, and I was amazed at the amount of firepower the Swarmlord and his 2 tyrant guard took, my friend played Imperial Guard, so all my guants got leman russ smashed, and in the end the Swarmlord still stood (my 100 model count army reduced to under 20 models by turn 5, with the Swarmlord on his last wound, both his guard dead, and contesting my opponents objective as I still controlled mine, winning by a nads hair).

I have made this post mostly to convince people that the Swarmlords ridicules pts cost (280 pts) is worth it, considering how damage he can take and still be left standing, along with all his extra cool abilities.

I consider the swarm lord worth it too. Admittedly I dont have a great deal of experience playing against him but it seems to me that he has a couple of advantages. he's really strong in close combat, he gives the army some strategic advantages not found anywhere else in the book, he can absorb a tremendous amount of punishment, he has a partial invulnerable save in a book that usually doesnt let you have any invulnerable save at all, and he scares the crap out of opponents. its true that hes expensive but hive tyrants are already expensive. In light of that its more a situation of getting what you pay for than overspending on a single unit. I think tyranid players should give him another look.

with 200 point trygons I don't know if he's an all that good fit, especially in lower points.

He's Pretty good. I had to use a 5 man hammernator squad supported by a librarian w/ Null zone and vulkan for Mastercrafted Hammers. I took him down, but w/o the mastercraft rolls or the nullzone, he would have smashed my assault termies. If I didn't field terminators, he would have just walked all over my army.

I like him a lot too, in fact my army is built around him His key strengths are, imo, in descending order:
- 18" Pref enemy or FC
- Reroll outflank, with a large genestealer squad this is golden
- Built in +1 reserves roll
- The built in psych powers, and the cc ability

I debuted mine this week. He was taken down by Mephiston, who giggled manically when he Instant Deathed Swarmlord before he got to attack. The nearby Alpha Warrior avenged him in that same combat phase though, by Instant Deathing Mephiston with his Boneswords.

See, I don't exactly find large Genestealer Units outflanking is the way to go with Swarmy. It's an option but I wouldn't call it smart...

Since by the time Swarmlord and Guard are fully kitted out, you're looking at about a quarter of your army being used up at 2000 pts, this means you have to be really efficient. Since the Swarmlord is going to be pushing forward to get into melee (or to provide support to nearby melees), playing a reserve game for AT isn't exactly the smartest move...thus 2 or so units of Hive Guard remain a must.

If anything, units that are worth taking with the Swarmlord include Gargoyles, Raveners (*without* Rending Claws, that is), and Ymgarl Genestealers. The former can pile up atrocious amounts of wounds by combining Preferred Enemy with the melee upgrades, the latter two threatening carparks by merit of weight of attacks and Furious Charge (seriously; Furious Charge Raveners are basically a better Fiend of Slaanesh for all intents and purposes). All three units have *optional* alternate deployment methods if you wish to play Reserves (though you really shouldn't go about starting Ymgarls on-table...).

Aside from this, Troop/Heavy Support wise, I'm not sure what else I'd include but there should at least be some flexibility; Tervigons are an option for Catalyst for example. Just remember to cover your bases and you should be set...

@Aduro: Did you not have Tyrant Guard or a Tyranid Prime with Lash Whips? Or were in a multi-combat assault and those guys were already engaged with other models?

When you run the Swarmlord you should screen them with Gants/Gaunts/or Gargs and attach him with 2-3 Tyrant Guard and a Prime. Since if your going Swarlord you better be making a deathstar unit. Him by himself is not worth it. He needs Guards and optimally a Prime.

If you did that you should have easily taken out Meph as the Prime + SL have power weapons, Tyrant Guard have Rending, and Prime + Tyrant Guard reduce his Initiative to 1 letting you attack first and you have a 4+ Invul on your Swarmlord. Even if you had 1 of those models left over when you piled in to his assault (assuming he got the assault) he still would have attacked at I1. He also has no immunity to instant death.

I play Nids and BA and have to say Meph would get Fd in the A by a Swarmlord. Remember he can also give preferred enemy to any unit around him including his own.

It was only a 1000pt game. I didn't have my Tyrant Guard painted up yet so they weren't there to help. There was an Alpha Warrior there, but as Swarmlord is a single model unit he can't join him, but was also BtB with Meph, and only had a Pair of Boneswords himself, no Lashwhip. Meph put all his attacks into the Swarmlord, and with a 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, and my 4++ save, managed to do a single wound and make his psychic test to Instagib him. Alpha Warrior in turn did a single wound to Meph, and his failed his 3d6 Leadership test to be Instagibed in return.

I know it wasn't the most favorable situation for him to be in, due in part to my current vow of not using unpainted figs (and i still don't have tyrant guard done). I just threw it out as my first/only use of him at the time.

At 1000 pts, Swarmlord is too expensive. Though 40k is too unstabe at that point level anyway...

Aaaah. Ok well...that explains a lot

Not only was that situation extremely unfavorable for your Swarmlord but it was 1000 points. You should be using a Prime at that point range. Plus he should always be ran with Tyrant Guard. I would never field a HT or SL without one, but I understand your situation with not having TG done. Just use a Prime alone.

I use to use HT and SL's all the time even at 1,500 points and let me just tell you it's not worth it. You can be putting those points into something way more deadly.

Using a Prime over SL can get you 3x HG or 15 Devil Gaunts, a Dakkafex, a Tervigon troop choice (almost). And that's considering that the Prime has Regen + BS/Lashwhip upgrades. I know many people don't like regen but I roll 6's a lot for them One game my friend did 3 wounds over 3 rounds to my Prime but I kept healing them and he was full at the end of the game. lolol

Good luck!

Heck yeah he was. The escalation league was only at the 1000pt level, but I had Just finished him all up, so he was getting put on the table regardless. I need to get his Guard done as well as some Genestealers so I can use him to better effect during the 1500pt rung.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, Alpha Warriors are about the only thing I put Regen on, because it's only 10pts.

Even then that's super tight. That's 1/3rd your list if you make the Deathstar properly lol. I would go Tyranid Prime if possible. Get you eve more stealers on the board with that

Swarmlord is a great unit and well worth his points but he's not an auto add. I think he's pretty good in sub-2k armies that take full advantage of his boosts (good chunk of agressive units and stealers). At 2k you can put him in as your HQ in just about any list type and just let him tank (eg tervigon farm at 2k can afford him, below that it can't).

Fast shooty armies will tear the swarm lord a new one though... That said, this applies to any model that is (very relatively) slow and has no ranged attacks when faced against models that are fast and have big guns.

In my (limited) experience against the fellow, he has usually been a target to avoid until I can bring LOTS of shooting to bear on him. However, if I were forced to deal with him as well as other Tyranid squads simultaneously, I imagine that I would be in for a very rough time.

I probably underestimate the guy simply because of the way my army is built, and the fact that I've never seen him used with the proper support.


*** edit:

Question from a noob #437:
What benefit do tyrant guard give the swarm lord? I don't play tyranids, but have been given a 2000 point or so army, and, as I don't have the dex in front of me now, was just wondering what the benefits of the guard are.

Tyrant Guard are tough infantry models and both serve as ablative wounds, as well as granting cover...

What benefit do tyrant guard give the swarm lord? I don't play tyranids, but have been given a 2000 point or so army, and, as I don't have the dex in front of me now, was just wondering what the benefits of the guard are.

Two big boosts:

1) He can join them and they become one unit. He is not an IC so is untargetable. So T6 3+ save ablative wounds on a unit that is gonna get shot up -- alot. Also lets your swarmloard more easily grab a cover save -- just get the guard in cover and the whole unit gets it -- including swarmlord

2) With lashwhips any model in base to base with the guard go at I1. This is huge when facing Mephiston, DE archons and the like. Helps when charging into cover as well.

Shrubs wrote:I like him a lot too, in fact my army is built around him His key strengths are, imo, in descending order:
- 18" Pref enemy or FC
- Reroll outflank, with a large genestealer squad this is golden
- Built in +1 reserves roll
- The built in psych powers, and the cc ability

the fact he makes targets reroll invuln saves him really awesome against terminators

giving poisoned gargoyles rerolls to hit makes them insane (I really cannot overstate how awesome rerolls to hit are, with 6's auto wounding, and then wounding on 4's with rerolls, at I5, in a fast jump choice that mega cheap)
the reserve rolls and outflank rerolls are fantastic with genestealers (as you said)
you need to give him guards, or he may get shot down
you can assign wounds to him from shooting, and then life leach them back to increase the survivability of the entire unit.

in all, he is a slow powerhouse, but when he gets there, he can do some serious damage.

My own experience with the Swarm Lord was my first time playing against IG, not much can stand up to over 100 + lasgun shots, 3 auto cannons, 3 leman russes, a deathwind missile launcher, a valkyrie, and a team of plasma veterans, quite like the swarmlord with 3 tyrant guard getting feel no pain from a tervigon. (mind you the swarm lord was shot with this for two rounds) Oops, never mind, I used 2 tyrant guard not 3...

Swarmlord face smashes stuff... issue is getting him there. His points cost is merited in some fights, but some others its not. Hes namely an elite/HQ hunter that can pop tanks. My only problem with him is how effing slow he is @_@

Give him FNP (feel no pain), he'll get their by turn 3, with only a few spare wounds taken.

Most of the games I've played with him he just got shot up and was too slow to catch stuff.

Really? whenever I take him he's practically invinsable, of coures thats with a full set of 3 tyrant guard and him getting FNP, just remember that if you hide the tyrant guard behind him, they all get a cover save!

Brood Lord wrote:Really? whenever I take him he's practically invinsable, of coures thats with a full set of 3 tyrant guard and him getting FNP, just remember that if you hide the tyrant guard behind him, they all get a cover save!

Hide the tyrant guard behind him, they all get a cover save???

You have to have the tyrant guard behind "another" unit to get a cover save. Hiding behind a model in your own unit does not qualify for a cover save.

The hive tyrant (or swarm lord) is the only model in the game which can grant a coversave by blocking over half the unit becouse it is a monstorus creature and an intependint charecter (if joint in a unit of tyrant guard), I forget how it all works out, somthing to do with you not being able to see over half the unit, but the hive tyrant can block line of sight to the unit becouse he is an independent & monstorus.

The Tyrant-Swarmlord is not an IC. It has a special rule allowing it join a unit of tyrant guard. This is a major differance.

If he joins the hive tyrant unit, then that unit can not gain a cover save by hiding behind him since it is now the same unit.

If he does not join the tyrant guard, then they can indeed get a cover save by hiding behind him, but since he didn't join the squad you not use them to allocate wounds.

The only time this works, is he joins the unit of tyrant guard, and that unit gains a cover save by some other means. Hiding the squad behind a unit guants is the easiest way. The tyrant guard would gain a cover save for being behind another unit, and the tyrant-swarmlord would share the same cover save as the rest of the unit.

"A single Hive Tyrant (including the Swarmlord) may join a unit of Tyrant Guard exactly as if it were and independent character"-pg 35 of the Tyranids Codex, Tyrant Guard entery.

Yes, it may join the squad as if it were an IC

But he is not an IC. His rule does not allow him to give his own squad a cover save. His rule does not allow him to leave the squad after he has joined it. His rule means that in cc, an opponent may not target the tyrant, but must attack the entire unit and allow you to allocate wounds as normal.

He may join a squad that normally he would not be able to join. His rule changes nothing beyond that fact.

So this whole thread about how awesome your swarmlord is was predicated on a several hundred-point investment in support abilities and a retinue, and backed up by a misunderstanding that led to him granting himself a cover save?