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Do the restrictions on the number of weapons a vehicle can fire depending on how far it moves apply to searchlights?

It's not a weapon and the rules for it don't say it "fires" per se or anything like that. Just that you roll night fight rules as normal during the shooting phase.

Wondering if I have missed something somewhere on this.

Thanks,

A searchlight isn't fired like a weapon - it's activated when you shoot.

Yes but then do you need to be able to fire one weapon to use the searchlight? Or could a chimera move 12 inches and use it or a Valk go 24 inches and use a searchlight?

Yes, you need to be able to fire at least one weapon to use the searchlight.

Is this FAQ'ed or written somewhere or just the generally accepted way it works?

Honestly that is how I read it but I would like to be able to back that ruling up with something.

It is just generally how it works, the Searchlight only activates when you shoot, and the vehicle that shoots must successfully see the target itself(I.E. roll high enough to be able to shoot at all.)

There is no rule that I can find that requires you to be able to fire a weapon in order to use a searchlight. All that is required is that you are able to aquire a target in order to put your searchlight on it. As far as I can tell acquiring a target means that you select the target you wish to spotlight and roll 2d6 multiply that by 3 and see if your target is within that many inches of the vehicle with the spotlight. If the target is within range then it is spotlighted for the rest of the shooting phase if it is not within range then the spotlight will not illuminate it. I see no requirement for the spotlighting unit to actually be able to fire a weapon.

Sigh...........

If you cannot shoot, you do not get to try to acquire a target.

agreed with don_mondo

Please try not to be so condescending. Show me in the rules where it says that you have to be able to shoot before a unit can use a searchlight. And please don't fall back on "that's just the way it's done" as a justification. All that means is that it's been done incorrectly in the past. All the nightfighting rules say is that you need to acquire the target. It doesn't say that you need to shoot at it. Why can't the searchlight itself be targeting someone?

From the Witchhunters Codex p23- "Searchlights .... They allow one enemy unit spotted by the vehicle to be fired at by any other friendly units that are in range and have line of sight (the enemy unit has been illuminated by the searchlight). ...."

There is no requirement that the unit using the searchlight be able to fire at the illuminated enemy only that you go by the nightfighting rules to see if the enemy can be illuminated. The only requirement is that the searchlight be operated during the shooting phase.

DakkaDakka wrote:

The Blood Angel Codex says nothing about needing to shoot a weapon before using a searchlight. It says, "... If a vehicle has a searchlight it must still use the night fighting rules to pick a target but, having acquired a target, will illuminate it with the searchlight. ..."
Hopefully this codex is recent enough for your taste.
If you can find a rule or a codex that says that you must be unit to shoot in order for that unit to use a spotlight then I would be very grateful for the citation.

Yes, as you posted "They allow one enemy unit spotted by the vehicle to be fired at.."
So how do they 'spot' that enemy unit?

Night fighting rules, page 95, main rules:
"After selecting a target, but before a unit fires, a check needs to be made to see if the firers can clearly spot their target through the darkness."

So again, they must be able to select a target, which means they must be able to shoot. Unable to shoot means unable to select a target, which means unable to 'spot ' the unit.

Nuff said?

I understand that it is not quite as explicit as one might like.

That being said, "pick a target" is part of the sequence for resolving a shooting attack. If you are not eligible to make a shooting attack, you never get to "pick a target", and thus never get to activate your Searchlight. That's how it works.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:From the Witchhunters Codex p23- "Searchlights .... They allow one enemy unit spotted by the vehicle to be fired at by any other friendly units that are in range and have line of sight (the enemy unit has been illuminated by the searchlight). ...."

When do you get to attempt to spot an enemy unit? After selecting a target.
When do you select a target? When you shoot.

Mannahnin + don_mondo- I don't believe that your interpretation of the rules is correct. A spotlight needs to be aimed just like any other ranged attack. In this instance it can't do any damage directly but for it to work it must follow all other rules for a ranged attack. So, in this instance, the spotlight should be treated like a ranged weapon. Again show me in the rules where it says that you must be able to damage an opposing unit with a ranged weapon before you can use a searchlight.
Nowhere in the shooting rules does it say that you have to be able to damage a target to shoot at it. The only requirements are LoS and range. Range in this instance is modified by the night fighting rules so the searchlight is limited to the roll of the dice. In fact you are free to fire weapons that are out of range from the target without penalty so what is the difference between shooting a flamer at a unit 20" away and using a spotlight?

A spotlight it not described anywhere as a ranged weapon. Compare & contrast to the Marker Light, as an example.

Even if it were, it would then be limited by the rules for vehicles moving & shooting.

You're already limiting it to the vehicle movement rules so that is a moot point. You are right it is not described as a ranged weapon anywhere but what does that have to do with my argument. All I'm saying is that you do not have to be able to shoot a weapon from a unit to use a searchlight. The searchlight itself says that you have to use targeting rules per nightfighting to operate so I would think that the implication is that they can "target" an opposing unit.

And he wonders why I sighed...........

No, I wonder why you think you're entitle to belittle other people's opinions. If you don't agree with them then point out where in the rulebook they are wrong. If you can't do that simple thing then either you are wrong or there is a legitimate grey area that needs discussed in a civil manner. In fact the Blood Angel codex goes as far as telling you to "pick a target" when using a searchlight. So by your logic it can't pick a target because it's not a ranged weapon. Therefore there is no reason for it existing in the game.

I did point out where you were wrong, as did others. Then you disagreed with the black and white rules. Sorry if you feel that made my comments condescending.
So........
1, I'm not wrong,
2, no grey area.
So it must be
3, tired of people trying to push a personal interpretation onto others as rules.

I agree with #3 entirely.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:You're already limiting it to the vehicle movement rules so that is a moot point. You are right it is not described as a ranged weapon anywhere but what does that have to do with my argument.

In your previous post you claimed that "A spotlight needs to be aimed just like any other ranged attack." IF the searchlight WERE a ranged attack, as you just claimed, then obviously it would have to be restricted by the rules for vehicles moving and shooting, so that basis for your argument doesn't work.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:All I'm saying is that you do not have to be able to shoot a weapon from a unit to use a searchlight.

And all I'm trying to do is politely explain why you are mistaken.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:The searchlight itself says that you have to use targeting rules per nightfighting to operate so I would think that the implication is that they can "target" an opposing unit.

The rulebook only allows for shooting attacks to pick a target. The nightfighting rules state how you resolve a shooting attack when nightfighting is in effect. And the Searchlight rules allow a unit which has successfully spotted a target to shoot at to ALSO illuminate that target. The nightfight rules specify that you "pick a target". They also describing the unit doing so as "the firers". Nightfighting is entirely predicated on an attempt to make a shooting attack. The searchlight rules don't say anything like "instead of or in addition to shooting, this unit may attempt to spot an enemy unit with the searchlight; roll to spot AS IF YOU WERE SHOOTING", or anything similar.

Possibly you missed it because I edited my comment but the Blood Angel Codex specifically says to "pick a target" with the searchlight. So the only shooting attacks can pick a target is patently false or the codex entry for the searchlight over-rides the general rule about picking targets.

You're misreading it.

"... If a vehicle has a searchlight it must still use the night fighting rules to pick a target but, having acquired a target, will illuminate it with the searchlight. ..."

It "still must use the night fighting rules to pick a target". This is telling you that, just like vehicles without Searchlights, in order to shoot an enemy during Night Fighting, it has to roll as normal. "having acquired a target" (for its guns, as only shooting attacks acquire targets), it then also illuminates the target with the searchlight.

So you are saying that if I have a vehicle with a heavy bolter and a searchlight,I pick a target (assuming that I roll well enough) that the enemy unit is now illuminated and fired upon at the same time? I see where you're coming from ruleswise but having checked the BRB p.15 there is no mention of having to use a weapon or ability that can generate damage before step 1 of the shooting sequence. My guess is that you would say that it is assumed that you are using a ranged weapon in the first place.
I guess my major problem is this situation- Say that I move 2nd in the game and on your first turn you shoot my rhino that has a searchlight on it. You destroy the only weapon the rhino has. Now on my turn, you're saying that I can't use my searchlight because the rhino can't shoot any weapons. I'm sorry but this just strikes me as wrong on a number of levels. I suppose I can chalk this up to "hey its a game and sometimes things happen" but....
Anyway thank you for your civility and helping clear the matter up.

Yes, you've correctly predicted that (IMO) you don't get to go to step 1 of the shooting sequence unless you're shooting a weapon.

I agree that it is a bit annoying that you can't use your searchlight if your only gun has been blown off.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:So you are saying that if I have a vehicle with a heavy bolter and a searchlight,I pick a target (assuming that I roll well enough) that the enemy unit is now illuminated and fired upon at the same time?

That's what the rule is saying, yes. The searchlight activates when you have successfully acquired a target.

I see where you're coming from ruleswise but having checked the BRB p.15 there is no mention of having to use a weapon or ability that can generate damage before step 1 of the shooting sequence. My guess is that you would say that it is assumed that you are using a ranged weapon in the first place.

Yup. The sequence on p15 is the sequence used when you are firing with a unit. As explained directly above the Shooting Sequence inset box. If you are not shooting with the unit, there is no basis in the rules for following any part of that sequence.

I guess my major problem is this situation- Say that I move 2nd in the game and on your first turn you shoot my rhino that has a searchlight on it. You destroy the only weapon the rhino has. Now on my turn, you're saying that I can't use my searchlight because the rhino can't shoot any weapons.

That would be correct. Yes, it could be seen as a little bit odd. Or you could indeed just chalk it up as one of those things that happens due to the abstracted natur eof game rules. Or you could see it as the vehicle crew preferring not to light themselves up when they no longer have anything with which to defend themselves...

Mannahnin wrote:You're misreading it.

"... If a vehicle has a searchlight it must still use the night fighting rules to pick a target but, having acquired a target, will illuminate it with the searchlight. ..."

It "still must use the night fighting rules to pick a target". This is telling you that, just like vehicles without Searchlights, in order to shoot an enemy during Night Fighting, it has to roll as normal. "having acquired a target" (for its guns, as only shooting attacks acquire targets), it then also illuminates the target with the searchlight.

Agreed.

Um, a searchlight isn't a weapon. It is a piece of wargear that is used in the shooting phase. Does it require a ballistic skill to shoot? Does it have a strength value? Nothing present for it to be considered in the same category as a weapon, thus being able to be used during the shooting phase to illuminate one target.

The portion about needing to use Night Fight is so that no one makes the mistake of saying "My searchlight illuminates you!" without testing, because they assume it would just see them with LoS. Instead, you must make a test as though it was Night Fighting to use it.