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Played a Dark Elf army yesterday and the Executioners made mince meat of some Warriors and Quarrelers . Can any one give me any help how to kill them in combat .

Executioners will out kill, point for point, any dwarf. WS5 S6 killing blow with hate just chews up anything you've got.
They out kill Iron Breakers, long beards, hammerers, slayers, and dwarf warriors.

My suggestion is don't try and kill them in melee. Soften them up with crossbows, thunderers, and warmachines, and then hit them with any good sized block to finish them off.

-Matt

Also, don't take them on with hammerers, try to do it with things that strike before great weapons. Ironbreakers are a good example.

But yes, soften them up first, alot.

Do Dwarfs not have things that can wipe out a solid number of T3 5+ elves that strike last? Strange.

Kirbinator wrote:Do Dwarfs not have things that can wipe out a solid number of T3 5+ elves that strike last? Strange.

It's the lack of killing power of dwarves.
WS5 means executioners only get hit on a 4+.
T3 heavy armor means that at best, dwarves wound on 3's and they save on 6's; OR the dwarves strike last, just like the executioners.

At 12 points, hitting on 3 or 4 with re-rolls, and killing on 2's, executioners out perform any dwarf unit.

Your only real option with a normal build is gun them down to the point where static combat res wins; or flank them, so they don't get supporting attacks.

A less real option is a unit of slayers, with 5 unit champs in the front rank. You'll only take 5 losses max in melee, and dish out slightly more, letting you win the first round of combat.
But, this unit is stupidly expensive, and likely to be the target or dark elf shooting/magic.

A better option may be to stall them with a unit of 1 wide hammerers or slayers. 10 slayers will take 3 rounds of fighting to kill. 10 Hammerers will take 4 rounds to kill (though you're checking stubborn every round). In either case, you should have time to line up a flank charge.

A final option is feed them 10 man units of warriors, keep them busy, and hope for that flank charge.

-Matt

I would advise softening them up with shooting too. Granted you might be otherwise occupied aiming at the hydras, but the executioners are pretty nasty too.

I don't see the executioners out performing the hammerers or ironbreakers, but I don't have a calculator on me at the moment. The executioners and hammerers would be the same as they are hitting and wounding each other on the same rolls and with a 5+ armor save it doesn't matter what you roll to wound as long as it is not a one. The ironbreakers would suffer less wounds but also dish out less wounds too. It seems that both units would fight to stalemates.

boogeyman wrote:I would advise softening them up with shooting too. Granted you might be otherwise occupied aiming at the hydras, but the executioners are pretty nasty too.

I don't see the executioners out performing the hammerers or ironbreakers, but I don't have a calculator on me at the moment. The executioners and hammerers would be the same as they are hitting and wounding each other on the same rolls and with a 5+ armor save it doesn't matter what you roll to wound as long as it is not a one. The ironbreakers would suffer less wounds but also dish out less wounds too. It seems that both units would fight to stalemates.

Hammers have a unit size cap, and don't re-roll to hit in the first round. This means that the executioners pull ahead in the first round of combat, and then stay ahead as they trade swings.

Iron breakers wound on 3's, and the executioners save on 6's.
Executioners wound on 2's, and the Iron Breakers save on 6's and parry on 6's (though killing blow negates the armor save).
It's the cheaper executioners, combined with the hate that gives the executioners the edge.

While both these fights are close, I wouldn't mind having an assassin in the executioner unit, but I wouldn't want a dwarf hero in the fight against executioners. (my executioner assassin runs with a 5+ ward, +D3 attacks, and -1 enemy attack); dishing out 4+D3 poison attacks (re-rolls to hit forever) and is fairly survivable.

Also, the executioners, being dark elves, aren't all on their own once close combat starts. They have access to Cauldrons of blood to buff units in combat, along with magic to augment or hex the fight.

Dwarves on the other hand, are a "this is it" type force once melee starts. No surprises, no gimmicks.


Did I mention, Shoot them?

-Matt

Yes shoot them.

I keep forgetting about the eternal hatred rule.

Hammerers don't have a unit size cap that I know of.

And yes, the executioners have other things to buff or add to their unit.

So that leaves us back to shooting them.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Hammers have a unit size cap...

-Matt

No they don't. They're 5+.

Doesn't change your argument, though. Still silly to fight them unless you've established a big numbers advantage or can get the flank.

Red_Zeke wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Hammers have a unit size cap...

-Matt

No they don't. They're 5+.

Doesn't change your argument, though. Still silly to fight them unless you've established a big numbers advantage or can get the flank.

Ah, you are correct. It's slayers that are limited to 30.
Either way, shoot them.

-Matt

It's pretty much the same with every elite, low toughness unit in the game, it's very hard to beat them, point for point, with durable troops, either high quality or medium quality. Swordmasters and the like are as hard to take on in the same circumstances.

The only way to beat these units is to drown them in crap, wasting their high quality attacks on low toughness, low armour junk troops, or shooting them before they get to combat.

Given dwarves don't have access to any really crap troops, their best option is to shoot.

Hit them in the flank where they can't dish out a lot of attacks.

I think everyone has covered the basics (shoot them ). But what else is he bringing (are they brining an ASF Hag BSB with them or a Cauldron of Blood) and how many points are you guys playing at? It simply may be that his shooting is focused at other more important targets.

However that doesn't explain why his Quarrelers weren't shooting them for at least a turn or two.