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There's a rumour that the new daemonhunters will include an uber-Grey Knight unit a la Ork Nobz. They say that basically, you can compete with just about 20 models at 2K!!!

Here's my take on this new ultra-elite unit. Let's see how different it is from the actual unit when it comes out.

Note: As the new codex will inevitably give the Storm Shields 3++ Inv, so shall I use the newer rules for Storm Shields here.


ELITES

Grey Knight Noble
WS 5...BS 4...S 4...T 4...I 4...W 2...A 3...LD 10...SV 2+/5++...70 pts each

Number/squad: 3-9

Weapons: Nemesis Force Weapon + Storm Bolter

Options:

Any Grey Knight Noble may replace his NFW for:

Thunderhammer....free

Nemesis Vorpal Weapon....+15pts

He may also replace his stormbolter for:

Storm Shield (3++ Inv)....free

Incinerator....+10pts

Psycannon....+20pts

Exalted Cannon.....+30pts

Character: Each Grey Knight Noble may be given any equipment allowed from the Daemonhunter Armoury. In addition, they have access to the following special wargear:

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Ancient Relic....+60pts: This legendary relic is only entrusted to the care of the most exalted Grey Knights. They will protect it by all means, even standing to defend it when most others would surely fall. It is a Holy Relic (refer to Daemonhunter Armoury). In addition, this relic gives the unit Feel No Pain and Prefered Enemy as long as the model equipped with it is still alive. Limit 1 per army.

However, if the model possessing this relic is killed, leave the model there. In objectives-based mission, if the Daemonhunters do not have a model within 3" of that model at the end of the game, then the enemy counts as if they have claimed 1 additional objective. In annihilation, if the model with the Ancient Relic is killed, the Daemonhunter army gives up an additional 1D3 Kill Points.

Nemesis Vorpal Weapon....+15pts: This nemesis force weapon is designed to penetrate armor. It is a nemesis force weapon available only to the Grey Knight Nobles that adds an additional +D6 to armor penetration.

Exalted Cannon....+30pts: Similar to the psycannon, this cannon is even more powerful, using larger, more explosive, ritually-inscribed shells.

Range: 36"....Strength: 9.....AP: 1......Heavy 1, Blast

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SPECIAL RULES
Grey Knights: Grey Knights are subject to the Grey Knight special rules as detailed in the Daemonhunter codex.

All for One and One for All: Whether from battle experience or some type of psychic connection, the Grey Knight Nobles are so in tune with each other's actions that they work together both as a unit and individually. Each Grey Knight Noble may target a different unit during the shooting phase. Then in the assault phase, they may assault any of the units that they shot at, so long as they maintain coherency and follow the normal rules per assault. Independent characters attached may also fire at any of the units that the Grey Knight Nobles fired upon.

Psyker: Grey Knight Nobles are psykers. They may purchase the Holocaust psychic power from the Daemonhunter codex at a cost of +20pts for the entire unit. They may also purchase the following special psychic power Psychic Invulnerability (described below) at +50pts. Note that they only need take 1 psychic test for the entire unit, but if they suffer a Perils of the Warp attack, each and every member of the unit (not including any IC's attached) with be affected. Also note that only 1 psychic power may be used per Daemonhunter turn.

Psychic Invulnerability....+50pts: This psychic power is used at the beginning of the Daemonhunter turn and lasts until the beginning of the next Daemonhunter turn. It affects only the Grey Knight Nobles who cast it and not any IC's that are attached. If successfully cast, the Grey Knight Nobles may re-roll any failed Invulnerable saves.

Teleport Attack: Each member of the Grey Knight Nobles have a tracking system built into their armor. The tracking system relays coordinates back to the mainship in space, which then can "relocate" the knights across a short distance very accurately and quickly. At the beginning of each of the Daemonhunter's movement phase, they can move via "teleportation". The Grey Knight Nobles, and any IC attached to them, are removed from the tabletop and immediately placed back anywhere on the table within 24" of their original location, using the Deep Strike rules. If they should mishap, instead of rolling on the Mishap table, they lose 1 member chosen by the controlling player with no saves whatsoever and then stop 1" short of the model or impassable terrain which caused the mishap. They may not assault on the turn they use this special movement, but they may shoot or run as normal.

Terminator armour: The squad has the honour of wearing Tactical Dreadnought armour into battle.

The Few, the Proud: For each Grey Knight hero in the Daemonhunter army, 1 unit of Grey Knight Nobles becomes a Troop choice.


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So what do you think? Too powerful? Just right for an ultra-elite army? Comments and criticism welcomed.


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Just a sample 2000pt Daemonhunter army using this unit:


Grey Knight Grandmaster - Icon, Psycannon - 200

Grey Knight Nobles - Psychic Invulnerability - 880
#1 - NFW + Storm Shield - 70
#1 - NFW + Storm Shield - 70
#3 - NFW + Storm Shield + Unguents of Warding - 80
#4 - NFW + Psycannon - 90
#5 - NFW + Exalted Cannon - 100
#6 - NFW + Storm Shield + Ancient Relic - 130
#7 - Nemesis Vorpal Weapon + Psycannon - 105
#8 - Nemesis Vorpal Weapon + Exalted Cannon - 115
#9 - Thunderhammer + Storm Shield - 70

7x Grey Knights - 2x Psycannons - 250
5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - 2x Meltas, Rhino, Extra Armor - 125
5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - 2x Meltas, Rhino, Extra Armor - 125

Grey Knight Dreadnought - TL-lascannon +Missile Launcher - 140
Grey Knight Dreadnought - TL-lascannon +Missile Launcher - 140
Grey Knight Dreadnought - TL-lascannon +Missile Launcher - 140

TOTAL - 2000

That's definitely not what it's going to be.

No way Games Workshop would actually take the time to put that many rules into something. Nor make it cost that many points as a single unit.

And having a single unit be able to have each member basically do what they want? Doesn't seem right in my opinion.

You're probably right. The return of the GW 2W grey knights will probably be a lot different. However, in order to have about 20 models at 2000pts and still be able to compete, you need to address a few, key issues:

1) Survivability. Even elite armies like Deathwing may have up to 40 terminators at 2K and still they get their clocks cleaned by the newer armies. With only half that many models, this army must be even more survivable than, let's say, Deathwing or Loganwing. My solution?

- 2+ Terminator armor
- 3++ Storm Shields (though not on every model)
- FNP
- Re-rollable Inv's
- Wound shenanigans

At about 100pts a model average (I agree that the final models will probably be cheaper than that), losing even 1 model would hurt. That's why they have to be able to survive at a reasonable rate. Keep in mind that they can still be insta-gibbed by Power Fists, Battle Cannons, etc.

2) Mobility. With probably only 2 squads at most in such an army, what good is it if they can't get from point A to point B? This is solved with the Teleport Attack ability. They still won't be able to catch fast armies like Eldar, Dark Eldar and probably biker armies but this way, at least they can threaten them. Without the necessary mobility, no matter how "uber" the unit, it is crap/uncompetitive if it cannot survive to reach its enemies in a reasonable amount of time.

3) Anti-tank. What good is a foot army if it cannot bust open tanks to get to the infantry inside? Psycannons definitely does not "cut the mustard". Thus, I came up with better ranged AT in the form of the Exalted Cannon and better close-combat AT in the form of NVW's (Nemesis Vorpal Weapons).

But more importantly, what good is all that AT if you can only destroy at most 2 tanks each turn? With possibly just only 2 units at 2K, the most you can ever destroy by conventional shooting is 2 vehicles a turn. In this day and age of MSU armies with up to 12 tanks at 2K, again that is just not feasible for an elite army. In order to compete, they must be able to take out multiple tanks each turn. That is the justification for the All for One and One for All special rule.


It's not as many special rules as you may think. Ancient Relic, Nemesis Vorpal Weapon and Exalted Cannon may all be moved to the new Daemonhunter Armoury section. Psychic Invulnerability may be moved to the Psychic Powers section, and Terminator armour is actually just wargear. The Few, the Proud should actually belong in the rules for Grey Knight Grandmaster (or some special character) in the same way that Space Marine Biker Captains make Space Marine Bikes a troop choice or an Ork Warboss makes 1 unit of Nobs a troop choice. The only real special rules are:

All for One and One for All
Grey Knights
Psyker
Teleport Attack

Even assassins have a lot more special rules than that.

I made a couple of changes to the Grey Knight Nobles. While their cost is based on the current Brother-Captain +20pts for the extra 1W, I believe in the next Daemonhunter release, the costs will go down. Thus I will be lowering their price.

I've also changed the Ancient Relic. It doesn't really seem right that it would give units within 6" obscurement. What would make more sense is if it acted like a more powerful Holy Relic instead.

While this would be cool.. it seems like you just stole the rules from the space wolves wolf guard but made them all captains in terminator armor

Matt65 wrote:While this would be cool.. it seems like you just stole the rules from the space wolves wolf guard but made them all captains in terminator armor

Next time you post, please refrain from using the words "steal/stole" as pertaining to people's ideas. I don't mind copied, borrowed or even inspired, but I find the phrase "stole" to be offensive. No, Wolf Guards are single wound models. And while they may be equipped differently, they cannot take advantage of wound allocation like these uber-knights. The idea for my Grey Knight Nobles is "borrowed" from that of Ork Nobs. That is also because I am trying to make it close to what the rumours say.


Some of the rumours from the Blood of Kittens:

"Psycannon is Str 7 rending ap 4 either can fire 2 shots moving or 4 shots standing still.

GKT can mix and match Nemesis Force Weapons and TH/SS and get psy weapons as well.

Any GK unit can once per game gate of infinity with no deviation in the movement face and can shoot, but not assault. This could still be changed to become the new Grey Knight Teleport Attack and moved to Fast Attack slot.

Grey Knights will be see the return of the 2 wound terminator. These new elite terminators will have 2 wounds and FNP and access to all the upgrades and options of all GKT in the codex. To make things more interesting one special character can make these terminators troop choices. What remains to be seen is if they will get Eternal Warrior…"

You're probably right. The return of the GW 2W grey knights will probably be a lot different. However, in order to have about 20 models at 2000pts and still be able to compete, you need to address a few, key issues:

I'm pretty sure the way they're going to be 20 models at 2000 is going to be more with 1-3 model units of whatever kind of elites they got.

Think Sanguinary Priest or Mephiston-ish units.

grayspark wrote:

You're probably right. The return of the GW 2W grey knights will probably be a lot different. However, in order to have about 20 models at 2000pts and still be able to compete, you need to address a few, key issues:

I'm pretty sure the way they're going to be 20 models at 2000 is going to be more with 1-3 model units of whatever kind of elites they got.

Think Sanguinary Priest or Mephiston-ish units.

I see what you are saying, but I still see this unit to be more like Ork Nobs than like Sanguinary Priests. The rumours that a special character would make these elite terminators a troop choice just doesn't really make sense if they are Independent Characters. I mean, what's the point of making them troop choices if you can join an IC to a troop choice and it is still scoring. It makes more sense if they are a unit somewhat akin to Logan making Wolf Guards troop choices or a Warboss making 1 Nob unit a troop choice.

But I guess we won't really know until the new DH codex comes out.

the split fire thingy sounds like SW all over again...
re-roll invuls sounds better than 2++/re-roll armour
3" blast LC? nah. maybe a LC for GK, though.
wouldn't be 70points- they'd be 2-wound captains.
2W? plausible.
likin' the vorpal-thingy. The jabbawocky methinks?