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I've got three Leman Russes and three Demolishers to assemble, and I'm trying to decide what hull mounted weapons to give them. I was thinking of doing two Lascannons, two Heavy Flamers and two Heavy Bolters, but I wanted to see if any of those three options was considered to be appreciably worse than the others before I put glue to plastic. Magnetization isn't an option for me currently. So, is two apiece a good decision, or should I go with something different?

Thanks.

Lascannons are a bad option. It does not help with any of the main gun's purposes.

Heavy Bolter vs. Heavy Flamer is mainly a matter of taste.
On demolishers, the Heavy Flamer is probably better (Short range main gun), while on Vanilla, the heavy bolter will probably earn more kills in the long run.

I personally go with heavy flamers for my hull mounts, as an infiltrating/outflanking squad that gets close to my tanks will then eat firey death.

I'd put Las Cannons on Demolishers only, because it jives really well with the main gun for high strength/armour denying/instant killing purposes. For the vanilla Battle Tank variant, I always run heavy bolters. That tank should never be close enough to something to use its heavy flamer, or at least that's just how I feel. Its main purpose to me is long range high strength, marine killing, pie plating firepower. On all other variants, it's pretty much preference and how you like to roll with your armour.

I'd say lascannons at least for the LRBT's. You'll be at range alot with it, and the lascannon has good range and can kill anything the BC may be shooting at, including making it's anti-vehicle work more reliable.

With the demolishers, since the cannon has a short range, a heavy flamer would be more justified to me. However the lascannon shares the AP2, has the range to fire with the main gun, and backs it up for vehicles.

I'd go with LC's for both, but there is something to be said for having heavy flamers on every vehicle you have. The only reason I'd put a HB on one was to put 3 on, and I'd probably never do that either. Guard has alot of anti-light infantry firepower already.

It all depends on what else you have in your list. If your LRBT tend to be doing a lot of anti-transport lifting, take the lascannon as it makes your AT work a bit more reliable. However, if your LRBT is mostly focusing on antimarine work, I'd say run it naked, or maybe with HBs.

The Demolishers, I'd say stick with heavy flamers, or plasma cannons if you'd like. The one thing I'd avoid is the multimeltas, as those will not be overly useful given that a short ranged tank like the Demolisher will be moving much of the time.

ChrisWWII wrote:
The Demolishers, I'd say stick with heavy flamers, or plasma cannons if you'd like. The one thing I'd avoid is the multimeltas, as those will not be overly useful given that a short ranged tank like the Demolisher will be moving much of the time.

We're only talking about the hull weapon it seems.

Really its all about taste. I usually prefer vanilla heavy bolter but I sometimes swap out for a las. Can come in handy in a pinch

As said relies on your personal tastes, but as far as the LR variants go: Executioner, punisher, and eradicator are all anti-infantry tanks; all 3 should get Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer.

Demolisher and Vanquisher are both Anti-tank; they should always have Lascannons

MBT and exterminator are jacks of all trades and so can take any hull mount you want. I prefer Lascannons on my MBTs because you can move and fire it and the Battle cannon. it also gives you 2 anti-tank shots against enemy armor, and 1 additional shot that will ID most infantry.

If you're using AP 2-3 pieplates for anti-tank work, then you're not dealing with very stiff competition anyway. Why not take that lascannon on a platform that will actually be focusing on tanks?

I can't stress this enough....Magnetize them!
it helps you play with different combos to find out what you like.
not to mention if you change your mind, you can switch them with ease.


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for me, i use Demolishers with HHB and plascannon sponsons.
for the LRBT, i use HHB. sometimes with HB sponsons, but rarely.

The only time I can think you might want a hull lascannon would be with a Vanquisher. But those are a casual-only variant.

Theyre just too expensive for one BS3 shot per turn. You want your hull and turret weapons to match target profiles (anti tank or anti infantry). Almost all of the Russ variants are anti-infantry platforms, so it's really more of a decision between hull HB or hull HF.

(Edit: I'd argue that even the Demolisher is primarily an anti-infantry platform. Sure it has a Str10 ordinance shot. One scattering shot per turn. With short range. Compare it to equal points in meltas, manticores, vendetta, etc, and I think you'll find it's not a great anti-tank choice. Your mileage may vary.)

So which one of those?

BS3 heavy bolter fire is pretty jank unless you're throwing out large amounts of it. I'd only run the hull HB if I was also running sponson HBs. And if I'm running all that dakka, why not throw the pintle stubber in there too? Dakka boats are pretty much the only time I run the hull HB. Rest of the time the hull HF.

Russ variants whose job is to move forward (demolisher for example) should definitely take the hull HF.

Russ variants whose job is to keep back and shoot (vanilla Russ for example) should still definitely take the hull HF unless they're going the dakka boat route. Why?

You migh kill a handfull of things over several games with the hull HB. Count it up over 10 games. Bet it won't be very much. WHereas the HF, there will be games where it never even has the range to shoot. But ever once in a while you'll have outflankers, deep strikers, etc show up. And in those instances that hull HF will kill all kinds of things. Those big payouts like that total up to be way more valuable over time than the dinky nickel and diming from a single HB.

I run my Demolisher (and Executioner) with LasCannon, most time. It is, however, an early cut if I need to make room for something else.

My reasoning is this: wound allocation. When you fire either HBs or HFs onto a unit along with S10 AP2 fire, it's possible for important models to get assigned the savable, non ID wounds. (this is one of my most hated areas of 40k rules, that seriously need revamping for the next edition) When you run into instances like this, you're basically ignoring your hull weapon or hurting yourself. If you take a LC, you can actually do more damage with your shooting, instead of less.

Again, there's also the option of not firing the hull weapon, if you don't have the points to spare.

Irdiumstern wrote:If you're using AP 2-3 pieplates for anti-tank work, then you're not dealing with very stiff competition anyway. Why not take that lascannon on a platform that will actually be focusing on tanks?

Actually, if you reliably encounter opponents where you aren't using your Russes and Demolishers for AT work, I'd say your competition isn't very good. Most armies are pretty heavily mechanized, and the battle cannon alone isn't a great AT weapon. That extra lascannon shot helps open transports in the first turn or two so you have dismounted targets later on. Also, when you hit a bunch of MEQs you, at best, get 1 roll to wound per model from the blast. Odds start getting good that you'll roll a "1" and leave someone behind. The HB lets opponents pull wound shenanigans, so the lascannon is a nice little bit of insurance to finish off certain squads. Sure, it's only BS3, but guard in general relies on volume of fire or very specialized units. Adding another lascannon helps ensure you get another multipurpose unit on a very rugged chassis.

The other hull weapons are fine, too, but I find that lascannon substantially adding to the vehicle's threat and overall usefulness.

Grimaldi wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:If you're using AP 2-3 pieplates for anti-tank work, then you're not dealing with very stiff competition anyway. Why not take that lascannon on a platform that will actually be focusing on tanks?

Actually, if you reliably encounter opponents where you aren't using your Russes and Demolishers for AT work, I'd say your competition isn't very good. Most armies are pretty heavily mechanized, and the battle cannon alone isn't a great AT weapon. That extra lascannon shot helps open transports in the first turn or two so you have dismounted targets later on. Also, when you hit a bunch of MEQs you, at best, get 1 roll to wound per model from the blast. Odds start getting good that you'll roll a "1" and leave someone behind. The HB lets opponents pull wound shenanigans, so the lascannon is a nice little bit of insurance to finish off certain squads. Sure, it's only BS3, but guard in general relies on volume of fire or very specialized units. Adding another lascannon helps ensure you get another multipurpose unit on a very rugged chassis.

The other hull weapons are fine, too, but I find that lascannon substantially adding to the vehicle's threat and overall usefulness.

+1 to this. I just played a game against Tau with 2x LRBT w/ a hull Lascannon. The lascannons won me the game, I had each shoot at a Devilfish and the lascannons popped them, both battlecannons whiffed. Without the Lascannons, I was looking at a draw or a very close defeat.

I'd rather buy a pair of plasma cannons before a single lascannon, but if I have the points, I'll throw on the lascannon as well.

For lrbt and demolishers i would take the lascannon. It actually makes them a threat to light vehicles. When i used to run flamers they were nice enough but i often regretted not being able to take down a rhino or the side of a predator. A lrbt with lascannon can take down AV11 quite reliably and has the range to snipe from unexpected places.

I recently went back to the classic lc/2xhb configuration for my main russes and it really does fit with their general purpose role. Demolishers get lc and dozer and can slaughter anyone who doesn't expect you to run through ruins for side shots, or to get behind their cover and deny saves.

Hm. Seeing a lot of love for the Heavy Flamer and Lascannon options, but the Heavy Bolter appears...underwhelming.

Yea at BS 3 you might hit one out of the three shots. HF are much more reliable at laying down some nice wounds.

I personally have HF on my Demoloshers and a Lascannon on my vanilla Russ. At BS 3 it not as reliable as it could be but, it has made the difference (many times) bringing down a few landraiders and battle wagons.

It's been my experience that if your big ol' tank is in range with those Heavy Flamer sponsons, it's pretty much guaranteed to get whacked next turn.

For LRBTs, I usually go with HB sponsons. HLC is a luxury I add if I have the points.

For Demolishers, I go all out - PC sponsons with HLC. Just so its a well-rounded AP2 platform. MM sponsons just seem... silly I guess. We Guard players are spoiled with choice when it comes to cheap and numerous AT (*cough cough Vendetta, Medusa, Manticore, HWTs, Chimelta Vets, SWS, etc. etc. cough*).

Boy, that was a long cough

magnetize and you can have them all!!

I don't see the point of giving sponsons to Demolishers. They are pretty short ranged and exposed compared to other commonly-fielded Russes, and their whole point is to look scary with that big gun and draw firepower. Plus, they'll be moving around a bunch.

If you want dedicated AP2, an Executioner is way better. If you want just a general marine/terminator killer, a LRBT with plasma sponsons also works well while affording you the opportunity to simply sit back and lob shots downfield.

On the rare occasion I use demolishers, I keep them as cheap as humanly possible.

That's a valid opinion, certainly. Sometimes You just need that s10 for Instant Death purposes however, and you want to avoid pinning your hopes and dreams on a single scatter roll. Hence, sponsons on Demolishers.

Executioners are good, but are pricier than Demolishers and a lot narrower in their applications. Yes, they are great at killing Termies out of cover/without SS's, but Demolishers can also crack vehicles if needed. Desperate, I know, but at the potential is there.

I still reccomend magnetizing, 3x3x1mm cylindrical magnets are the equivalent to 4 or 5 cents a piece where I got them.
You could also stick a "rail" made out of a paperclip onto one side and drill complementary holes on the other. But then again you can use blue tac. Or play dough. In fact, you could just smear glue over the hull weapons, wait until it dries and then have a tight fit to slide it in and out. Please, don't eternally weld any of the options onto it.

Mastermind wrote:I still reccomend magnetizing, 3x3x1mm cylindrical magnets are the equivalent to 4 or 5 cents a piece where I got them.
You could also stick a "rail" made out of a paperclip onto one side and drill complementary holes on the other. But then again you can use blue tac. Or play dough. In fact, you could just smear glue over the hull weapons, wait until it dries and then have a tight fit to slide it in and out. Please, don't eternally weld any of the options onto it.

I said the same above and will second this^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!
it's such a crappy feeling watching something change and being stuck with that weapon you glued on. i would have done it
on all of my early tanks had i thought that far ahead.....

Lascannons on demolisher and main battle are best options if points are there or if you are lacking a mass of anti mech weps.

HFlamer messes up with wound allocation to the unit you are firing at. Yes it comes in handy but too often will you find yourself making the demolishers tank hunting or going have 3+ armor and the main battle tank being too long range to do much with it.

murdog wrote:I'd say lascannons at least for the LRBT's. You'll be at range alot with it, and the lascannon has good range and can kill anything the BC may be shooting at, including making it's anti-vehicle work more reliable.

With the demolishers, since the cannon has a short range, a heavy flamer would be more justified to me. However the lascannon shares the AP2, has the range to fire with the main gun, and backs it up for vehicles.

The secret I've found with tanks is to keep them cheap, and focused. Since they lack ability to split fire, you don't want them having roles that pull them toward separate targets. That being said, lets compare the two weapons, S8 ordinance vs S9. AP3 vs AP2. Both weapons ignore power armor and cause T4 insta-death, however, the lascannon is arguably more of an antitank weapon, and there is a lot of stuff out there you would be firing a LRBT at that is worse than 3+ armor (Xenos anyone?), which is why I think the heavy bolter is better on this version. It keeps them focused on infantry, you can put that lascannon elsewhere, and the antitank is why you pack the Manticore, remember? Plus it keeps things cheap, which was my initial goal.

Demolishers, on the other hand, actually warrant a lascannon in my mind to keep AP synergy. Nothing worse that having an opponent wound allocate all the demolisher wounds onto a single terminator and toss heavy bolter wounds across the rest of them. Something I've also tried doing with surprising success with my Demolisher is to toss the multimelta sponsons on it instead of the lascannon. I've only tried this one, and I realize that anecdote =/= data, but it's something I'd consider again. Why? Range synergy, check. AP synergy, check. Role synergy, check. The only test it fails is the cost check, but at just barely under 200 points, it's still more economic than the fully tooled up Executioner.

Edit: Oh, and +1 on the magnet idea. There are too many choices to NOT do it. Especially if you're using the new LRD kits because they have the other turrets. Except the Punisher turret. You might as well leave that one on the sprue.

I agree that the BC is best for inf, LC best for vehics. But to me it's not about having roles that pull them toward seperate targets, it's about having a big tank with weapons that can kill anything that any opponent may care to bring, from far away. I can get specialization from any other slot in the codex, with my HS I usually just want general destruction. All my tanks are old and glued, but I've never regretted having a russ w/lc, LRD w/lc+pc, or a naked bassy. Just my style, and I'm glad for the ability to also specialize the HS slots now, if I wanted to. My next purchase is going to be one of the new kits, to be fully magnetized. Great for keeping regular opponents on their toes!

As mentioned, magnetizing is not your ONLY option to make interchangeable weapons. My vehicles all have interchangeable hull weapons, and I've never owned a rare earth magnet.

As for which to do, I generally go with the vague consensus on this one: LCs for LRDs if you have the points, and heavy bolters or flamers for LRBTs unless you've got a lot of points to throw around and can't figure out what to do with them (a common problem in mecahnized lists).