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Hi guys!!!

I want your opinion on SW sky claw pack.I am a space wolves player and I use sky claws very often.I believe that they are really efficient.
Sky claws are blood claws but with jump pack.Once i decided to compare sky claws and blood claws.Surprisingly sky claws appeared to be more efficient than blood claws are.
Firstly, we pay 15 points for a BC and 18 points for a SC.
So 10 men squad of BC is 150 pts while 10 men squad of SC is 180pts, but have you ever seen BC without transport.I think no.That is why you should add rhino to your BC pack.
With rhino it will be 185 pts.
Secondly,BC with rhino are 2 kill points while SC are just 1
Moreover they have jump packs which means that they can deep strike.

I want to know you opinion on these guys.



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No opinions?


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Interesting...

They are better than normal Blood Claws but still aren' very good and need a Wolf Priest to make 'em better.

I think they are worth taking. But I believe most people dislike bloodclaws to begin with, because you can make much better lists, and/or use counterattacking Grey hunters instead of BC assaults.
Compared to non-marine armies they are both stellar, but in the actual SW codex, you can do better. The question/comparison should be between GH and SC, or between SC and other fast attack, IMO.

That said, the biggest problem with Sky claw is lack of protection and that they are "head strong" and unable to take a Wolf Guard champion. They must get a HQ with Jump pack to lead them = expencive for a unit that could easily end up cannonfodder before they actually do some good. They are in the front line (quite alone unles you drop pod your army), and lack protection. There is a reason bloodclaws are carried in transport, and its not so much to with speed as with protection (also, you should calculate the BC points with 15 models, wolf-priest and landraider )
But, used with a wolf priest they can do some real damage to infantry, and certainly give the wolves some hard to get speed in their assaults. But only if you play a list in favor of infantry assault.

Oh, by the way, I really like both BC and SC, they fit my crappy "everybody charge!" tactics great, and my Grey hunters never do any good

Well I cant agree with you more guys.
I personally see SC as a deep striking unit with a wolf priest.
I run 2 LF squads in my list so that they give me some protection for my SC.They are especially good when combined with wolf scouts.

I am playing this list now and SC are some sort of a "pearl" in this list.

HQ

Wolf Lord
Thunderwolf mount
wolftooth neck
Storm shield
Frost axe
2 fenrisian wolves
Saga of a Warrior born

Wolf Priest(joined to sky claws)
Jump pack
runic armor
melta bomb
plasma pistol

Elites

Wolf Scouts+Wolf guard(power fist,combi-melta)
meltagun,mark of the wolfen

Wolf Scouts+Wolf guard(power fist,combi-melta)
meltagun,mark of the wolfen

Troops

9 Grey Hunters(wolf guard with a PF and CM)
mark of the wolfen Wolf Standart meltagunx2

10 Grey Hunters
mark of the wolfen Wolf Standart meltagunx2

10 Grey Hunters
mark of the wolfen Wolf Standart meltagunx2

Fast Attack

10 Sky Claws with wolf priest (deep striking)
meltagun mark of the wolfen

3 Thunderwolf Cavalry with lord
2 storm shields melta bomb power fist

Dedicated Transports
3 Rhinos
Heavy Support

Long Fangs
5 missile launchers

Long Fangs
5 misile launchers


If i face CSM or SM armies then I give 5 plasma cannons to my devastators

So basically they are ok. They are better than the normal Blood Claws but still need an IC with a jump pack which gets expensive.
Though i have seen 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest in a LRC used to devestating effect.

purplefood wrote:Though i have seen 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest in a LRC used to devestating effect.

To tell you the truth I think that 15 BC LRC with a WP which is more than 600 pts is inefficient in a way of points being spent.I mean this unit will never get its points back.

Constantine wrote:

purplefood wrote:Though i have seen 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest in a LRC used to devestating effect.

To tell you the truth I think that 15 BC LRC with a WP which is more than 600 pts is inefficient in a way of points being spent.I mean this unit will never get its points back.

Maybe but it'll kill whatever it hits so go figure...

Well it does really happen sometimes.
What is the best way to use them do you guys think?
I just feel that they have some sort of concealed potential.

I haven't played them since the FAQ changed the Wolf Guard to allow jump packs and attachment to the Sky Claws... Throwing in an IC with an expensive jump pack for sub-standard assault troops to make them "OK" just doesn't seem to be a great investment. Not horrible, but I still think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages...

People would probably ignore them to shoot at other scarier units in your army so they might manage something but it wouldn't work twice.

Mechanized blood claws give an xtra kp.

Mechanized blood claws are troops as opposed to FA.

Giving up a scoring unit to reduce total KP by 1 is a hard sell when 2/3 missions are objective based, even more so for an army that does not have combat squads. Personally I think most SW players are way to light on troops. Other SM players can get away with 30 marines in 3 scoring units because they can combat squad out to 6 scoring units, just not the case with SW. 3 scoring units is to few for any army IMO, even more so in tournaments. This year's Ard boys would usually require 5 objectives to be held for a massacre, with tabling your opponent only resulting in a major victory (But you get to play by yourself moving units to objectives until the game ends if your opponent has no units)

As a fast CC unit that is not a scoring unit Sky Claws also have to compete with Wolf Scouts. They are very different units that fill different force org slots, but they will often both perform the same role.

Any version of claws are usually not worth taking.

You have the best troop in the game (Grey Hunters). Use them.

With a WG sargeant armed with frost blade, meltabombs and wolf tooth necklace, you have a fast moving, deepstriking, cc unit that can kill its' points or better more times than not. They make a wonderful diversionary fire magnet.

Jagermeister wrote:With a WG sargeant armed with frost blade, meltabombs and wolf tooth necklace, you have a fast moving, deepstriking, cc unit that can kill its' points or better more times than not. They make a wonderful diversionary fire magnet.

If the unit is being reserved to deep strike and assault I would be more impressed with wolf scouts. They can assault units in the enemy deployment zone on the same turn they arive from reserves, and they have melta.

scubasteve04 wrote:Any version of claws are usually not worth taking.

You have the best troop in the game (Grey Hunters). Use them.

That is the problem of many space wolves armies nowadays is that people use way too much grey hunters while there are many other competitive choices.
What I mean is that if you want to have a competitive tactic you should use various units in it as it gives you more tactical opportunities.
If unit is fragile it doesnt mean that it is not competitive.It is more likely that player who states so simply cant use it.

Constantine wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Any version of claws are usually not worth taking.

You have the best troop in the game (Grey Hunters). Use them.

That is the problem of many space wolves armies nowadays is that people use way too much grey hunters while there are many other competitive choices.
What I mean is that if you want to have a competitive tactic you should use various units in it as it gives you more tactical opportunities.
If unit is fragile it doesnt mean that it is not competitive.It is more likely that player who states so simply cant use it.

Grey hunters are a more flexible unit, and a troops choice. If anything people do not use enough of them, especially in tournament play where nearly tabeling an opponent and winning by a single objective=minor victory.

Comparing SCs to regular BCs is not a really good comparison.

Compare them to Land Speeders and TWC as they are in the same slot.

BCs compete with GHs which is where they fall short.

The only way I have ever found BCs to be any good is with a squad of 15 in an LRC with a Priest. The unit is pricey but it is a large, fearless scoring unit that is fairly tough in HtH.

Really though, GHs are so much better at assault and as scoring units there is not comparison.

If you have good success with a unit of SCs then by all means run with it. I do think though, that if you dropped the SCs for more TWC you would have better results.

You need a different mindset. Blood Claws and sky claws are awesome.

Yes they need help in the form of a wolf guard or priest and it does add to the cost of the unit, but its not like your not getting anything for that extra cost. In the case of the priest your getting your 1 required HQ, fearless, oath of war, power weapon attacks, etc. its not like the guy is not doing anything for you.

Same with a LRC for blood claws, even if all the BCs die, you still have a Cruasader running around contesting, drawing fire, blowing the crap out of infantry etc.

Its just that you can't use Blood Claws as an after thought, you need to build your army around them and know how they work with everything else.

I personally think a unit of 10 Skyclaws advancing behind cover then pouncing is pretty cool and as others and Math Hammer have proven, really hurt anything they pounce onto.

Blood Claws are also more fun than Grey Hunters.
Although they simply aren't as good which is a shame.

I strongly believe that SC have some sort of "concealed potential" .The majority claims that SC are worse than GH.
I assume you that they cannot be compared because they play absolutely different role on a battlefield.
I dont think that GH are as Devastating in meele as SC are.
In my very personal opinion GH are some sort of a unit that has some tactical purpose on a battlefield while SC are more of melee beasts


* When i say SC I mean that they are joined by a WP

I guess I should have stated fast moving or deep striking. Amazing to me how much the addition of a word makes over a comma.

My problem with Sky claws are I fail to see their advantage in most situations: their low bs means that they are an unreliable melta delivery system and as has been said before because they can't have a wolf guard they have to have an HQ to give them any reliability which is 125 points for a basic wolf priest with jump pack. They have no option to assault on the turn they ds so they may as well be Blood claws in a drop pod but why would you ever take blood claws in a drop pod over Grey Hunters in a drop pod? When measured against other fast attack options I believe they fall short: sure they are cheaper than TWC but they are not in the same league, land speeders are again better in most lists. To say sky claws are melee mosters is an overstatement, Khorne Berzerkers are better and they are certainly not considered the best cc unit in the game. Sky claws give you four attacks on the charge at st5 (assuming they have 2 cc weapons) after that they are down to 2 st4 attacks so if you don't wipe the unit out first round you will be in trouble. Ok a wp will give you rerolls but a wp would do the same for any unit so this is irrelevant.

[quote Constantine]That is the problem of many space wolves armies nowadays is that people use way too much grey hunters while there are many other competitive choices.
What I mean is that if you want to have a competitive tactic you should use various units in it as it gives you more tactical opportunities.
If unit is fragile it doesnt mean that it is not competitive.It is more likely that player who states so simply cant use it.

SCs, BCs, and Swift Claws aren't BAD. They just aren't as good as other choices in the book. If you make a list with lots of units based off of BCs, then it won't be terrible, it just won't be as good as a SW list could be.

Since you are postulating your argument around the question of efficiency, the answer is quite clear that they are not the most efficient unit.

Also, one of the main problems with SCs (or any assault troops) is that they are a nice squishy target for anti infantry weapons to shoot at when everything else is either Meched up or much harder to kill (TWC).

So, as stated, play with the models you like as it is your army. If they work for you then great! But, it will be very difficult to prove that SCs are the most efficient choice in the SW FA FOC.

And what if you run them with chaplain who has saga of a hunter which means that you get +1 cover save

The problem there is that you are talking about a force multiplier. You are increasing their efficiency but if you took the same saga and applied it to TWC, you would be better off.

But again, play what you want to play, you don't need the internet to validate anything. If you like them and they work for you, then rock it.

Constantine wrote:And what if you run them with chaplain who has saga of a hunter which means that you get +1 cover save

Saga of the Hunter is only usable by Characters on foot. So no Jump pack, Bike or Thunder Wolf.

Good to know, I missed that.