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Howdy all,

So I'm in the process of building my DoC army. I intend to (hopefully) take it to 'Ard Boyz this year if I can get all the models together. However, I've run into a cunundrum; I don't know what to run for my second HQ slot.

Now I know there are tons of variations on FW lists, and mine is no exception. Heres the list:

HQ
---
Fateweaver - 333 pts

Elites
-------
Bloodcrushers x6 - Full kit - 280 pts
Bloodcrushers x6 - Full kit - 280 pts
Fiends of Slaneesh x6 - 180 pts (will be converted using Chaos Spawn)

Troops
---------
5x Horrors - Changling, bolt -100 pts
5x Horrors - bolt - 95 pts
6x Plaguebearers - 90 pts (Bloodletters conversions)
6x Plaguebearers - 90 pts (Bloodletters conversions)
6x Plaguebearers - 90 pts (Bloodletters conversions)

Fast Attack
-------------
14x Flesh Hounds - 210 pts (WOC Warhound Conversions)

Heavy
-------
Daemon Prince - MoT, Bolt, Might - 160 pts
Daemon Prince - MoT, Bolt, Might - 160 pts
Daemon Prince - MoT, Bolt, Might - 160 pts

This leaves me about 270 points to spend. I can also free up a few points. Now, here are my thoughts for my other HQ slot:

1) 2x Herald of Khorne on Jugg w/ blessing and might - 270 points
Pros: Hide in a unit of 24 wounds, str 7 on the charge, makes crushers more killy
Cons: Crushers are already killy enough, not much better over a base crusher, doesn't present as much of a threat in some games

2) Bloodthirster w/ might and blessing - 275 points
Pros: quick, very killy, can pop raiders and things with ease, presents a 5th MC threat, can one shot most charecters and will chew through kans and dreads easily
Cons: Costly, can be picked out, will rely heavily on being near FW to prevent being focus fired down quick

3) Skarbrand - 300 points
Pros: The reroll to hit also counts in CC vs vehicles, thus giving me a much better chance to downing pesky fast vehicles, comes with might base, just as killy as a normal BT
Cons: Slower than a BT if you roll baddly, enemies get to reroll hits too (not as much an issue against many armies), doesn't get blessing

So there we have it... The basic idea of the army is to maximize threats that benefit the most from fateweavers prescience and having enough shooting to make vehicles more non-issue than usual.

Any help or ideas would be great!

Take the heralds & stick them with the crushers.

I'd also toss wings on the DP, that way they can me more mobile kind of a rapid response unit that still has ranged Firepower. That and the extra mobility will help you kill nasty AV 14 vehicles.

This is suprisingly one of the few daemon lists Ive seen & said "well ok, not bad, not bad at all"

Normally I take Fateweaver and 2xHoK on crusher with might. Skarbrand sounds like an interesting idea though.

Actually all three choices seem good. Maybe try a few games out with each of the three choices you have and see how you like them.

Consider swapping out those PB squads for more Horror squads. The more bolts the merrier, especially when you'll be going into an environment that will be heavily mechanized.

But PB can actually hold objectives. Pink horrors are no good at that.

Sure they can hold objectives. They may not be as survivable but they actually can contribute to your offense while objective sitting. And if your opponent is committing dedicated assault troops or lots of firepower to shoot at your horrors sitting in cover they will get raped by your DPs and other nasties.

When I started playing demons PBs were my standard troops choice, but they have been replaced and I don't see myself going back any time soon.

augustus5 wrote:Sure they can hold objectives. They may not be as survivable but they actually can contribute to your offense while objective sitting. And if your opponent is committing dedicated assault troops or lots of firepower to shoot at your horrors sitting in cover they will get raped by your DPs and other nasties.

When I started playing demons PBs were my standard troops choice, but they have been replaced and I don't see myself going back any time soon.

My issue running more horrors is... well, I love my converted PB's for one lol. Also, a 5++ rerollable with FNP (even against battlecannons!) is pretty awesome in my meta. I'm trying to focus the list a little more as this is what I'm buying.

Also, DP wings are 60 points a piece... honestly, its not worth it to me. Thats 180 points just to move 6" more a turn :( if I pop their tanks I won't have too much issue catching up when the hounds/fiends tie them up

I do like the idea of play testing more. I guess I could buy everything but my BT/last crusher box and play it out.

If you aren't going to put more horrors in then you need wings on your dp's to catch tanks for some credible threat to enemy armor which this list is lacking. Looking at what you are already bringing the heralds seem kinda redundant A blood thirster with fateweaver in tow will laugh off ranged firepower all day long while having the mobility to get there in time to silence the scary guns (read long fangs) as well as giving you a psychological edge. if they freak and pour firepower into the thirster your crushers get there and clean house.

I don't use wings on my DPs in a Fateweaver list because I try to keep them in FWs reroll bubble. Any other lists I usually spring for the wings.

Then again I run 6x5 horrors to shoot with so I don't need the speed anyway.

Hey Zid,

It's funny, my Daemons are having a similar crisis at the moment. My tried and tested list:

333 Fateweaver
100 Herald o Tzeentch, bits
130 The Blue Scribes
200 4 Crushers, everything
190 6 Fiends, UM
100 5 Horrors, Bolt, Change
75 5 PB
75 5 PB
175 11 FH of Khorne, FoK
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
1698

Has some recent competition in my mind:

333 Fateweaver
250 Bloodthirster
200 4 Crushers, everything
190 6 Fiends, UM
100 5 Horrors, Bolt, Change
75 5 PB
75 5 PB
155 DP, MoS, Hide, Pavane, AoA
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
1698

333 Fateweaver
220 KoS, Musk
200 4 Crushers, everything
190 6 Fiends, UM
100 5 Horrors, Bolt, Change
75 5 PB
75 5 PB
185 10 FH of Khorne, Karanak
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
1698

333 Fateweaver
100 Herald o Tzeentch, bits
75 Herald o Slaanesh, Ch, UM
200 4 Crushers, everything
160 5 Fiends, UM
100 3 Fiends, UM
100 5 Horrors, Bolt, Change
75 5 PB
75 5 PB
160 10 FH of Khorne, FoK
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
160 DP, Bolt, Gaze, MoT
1698

I can't seem to figure out what I like best either. My point? Like Augustus5 I think all your proposed lists are good and will become very competative. It's probably just a question of preference and finding a list that suits your style of play. If it was up to me I'd pick either the Thirster or Skabrand. Good luck with it and write us up a battlereport one of these days :-)

Cilithan

Aftersong wrote:If you aren't going to put more horrors in then you need wings on your dp's to catch tanks for some credible threat to enemy armor which this list is lacking. Looking at what you are already bringing the heralds seem kinda redundant A blood thirster with fateweaver in tow will laugh off ranged firepower all day long while having the mobility to get there in time to silence the scary guns (read long fangs) as well as giving you a psychological edge. if they freak and pour firepower into the thirster your crushers get there and clean house.

Issue is, yes, more horrors = possibly more popped tanks... but it also gives my list a very weak control for objectives. Sure, I can camp them with crushers and contest easily; but horrors are terribad at controlling objectives. Also, wings on a MoT prince with just bolt is 200 points each... thats 600 in heavies, plus almost 600 in hq's. Thats 50% of my list in 5 or 6 models... not a good idea. Princes aren't mean't to "catch" vehicles; they just need to be in range to shoot it, which is easy with the range of bolt.

Now, I could cut 1 PB from all 3 squads + 4 hounds and it will give me points for a third 5 man horror squad with bolt. However, the list as is is pretty damn symmetrical as it is:

Wave 1
Fateweaver
Crushers 1
Horrors
Horrors
DP 1
PB's
Hounds

Wave 2
BT
Crushers 2
PB 2
PB 3
DP 2
DP 3
Fiends

So I get 2 BS 5 bolts + 2 BS 3 bolts on T1 (pref), 1 anvil squad, 1 control squad, and 1 harassment squad. Longfangs don't really worry me much; honestly, I have 2 units with a 12" assault range + fleet. Unless they kill the hounds or fiends quickly I'll eat things like longfangs for breakfast. my big issue, however, hasn't been range support, but killing dreadnaughts or fast vehicles.

I would go with a Lord of Change. It gives you another reliable bolt and another re-rolling 3++.

Wings on the princes is great not only for the extra 6 inches, but the ability to leap over troops which will tend to get conjested in the bubble.

I'll say Chariot Heralds for 2 BS 4 Bolts>1 BA 5 Bolt. Since you're already taking a Changeling Unit, subbing one if the Heralds for the Scrubes is an (expensive) option though he does make the squad a lot deadlier...

Mechnomancer wrote:I would go with a Lord of Change. It gives you another reliable bolt and another re-rolling 3++.

Wings on the princes is great not only for the extra 6 inches, but the ability to leap over troops which will tend to get conjested in the bubble.

As I said, issue with wings is how costly it is! putting wings on 3 DP's is the cost of 2 5 man horror squads with bolt, or 6 fiends of slaneesh. Honestly, I love wings, but for the cost, I'd rather get more units (especially when all my DP's are mean't for is to shoot stuff)

The LoC idea is interesting... however, I like the BT's imposing prescence. Plus, its the only model I've ever used that was able to wipe out 6 Kanz and only take 1 wound in the process @_@

Did the Ork player forget his Lootas or something? I guess a Bloodthirster could work though alongside some fighty Nurgle Princes and Fiends...hrm.