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Thought I'd take a bash at a "Raiding Force" Deldar List.

~

Malys 130

9 Bloodbrides 147
- 3 Razorflails

Raider
- Dark Lance
- Flickerfield

10 Warriors 100
- Cannon

Raider 80
- Dark Lance
- Splinter Racks
- Flickerfield

10 Warriors 100
- Cannon

Raider 80
- Dark Lance
- Splinter Racks
- Flickerfield

10 Warriors 100
- Cannon

Raider 80
- Dark Lance
- Splinter Racks
- Flickerfield

10 Warriors 100
- Cannon

Raider 80
- Dark Lance
- Splinter Racks
- Flickerfield

10 Warriors 100
- Cannon

Raider 80
- Dark Lance
- Splinter Racks
- Flickerfield

6 Reavers 196
- 2 Heat Lances
- 2 Cluster Caltrops

6 Reavers 196
- 2 Heat Lances
- 2 Cluster Caltrops

Ravager 120
- 3 Dark Lances
- Retrofire Jets
- Flickerfield

Ravager 120
- 3 Dark Lances
- Retrofire Jets
- Flickerfield

Ravager 120
- 3 Dark Lances
- Retrofire Jets
- Flickerfield

~

2,000 Points
76 Models
9 Vehicles
19 Lance Weapons

~

Keen to hear your thoughts on the above List.

your reaver squads, if im reading them correctly, are not pointed correctly. The way you have them set up they would be 240 points. Id also drop the 40 points in caltrops to add another bike and heat lance

I pretty much hate bloodbrides. Pricier then normal wyches, for not a whole lot of benefit. I think you would be better served swapping them for regular wyches, dropping a warrior squad, and added a trueborn squad instead (whose access to more special weapons make them a useful upgrade over warriors).

I also think Reavers should be kept small (I do, however, like cluster caltrops, though I am not a huge fan of giving them both caltrops and a heatlance, I like one or the other). Try 3 squads of 6 instead of 2 with 8, 2 with 2x cluster caltrops and 1 with 2x heat lances.

I would drop all the Splinter Racks. You're dropping a lot of points into a flimsy vehicle, not to mention you can only shoot from the Raider if you move 6 inches or less. And the Splinter Cannon doesn't even benefit from the racks.

Also I second replacing Bloodbrides with normal Wyches. They're cheaper, scoring, and pretty much just as effective.

Some of those warrior squads might want to be retooled as blaster squads or Trueborn with lots of blasters in a Venom.

You may want to consider haemonculi and the like for pain token distribution.

Finally if you still want a CC monster consider Incubi, they got cool models and are very dangerous.

Laosiamus wrote:your reaver squads, if im reading them correctly, are not pointed correctly. The way you have them set up they would be 240 points. Id also drop the 40 points in caltrops to add another bike and heat lance

So they aren't. Having revised the List several times before posting, I must have forgotten to likewise revise the Points Costs. I'd take your advice to lose the Caltrops for another Lance Bike, but I've had to drop the Reaver Squads to 6 Bikes, to get back under 2,000 Points.

Magister187 wrote:I pretty much hate bloodbrides. Pricier then normal wyches, for not a whole lot of benefit. I think you would be better served swapping them for regular wyches, dropping a warrior squad, and added a trueborn squad instead (whose access to more special weapons make them a useful upgrade over warriors).

I also think Reavers should be kept small (I do, however, like cluster caltrops, though I am not a huge fan of giving them both caltrops and a heatlance, I like one or the other). Try 3 squads of 6 instead of 2 with 8, 2 with 2x cluster caltrops and 1 with 2x heat lances.

I gravitated towards Bloodbrides over Wyches because of the extra Attack. It doesn't look much on paper, but we're talking 9 Attacks for the Squad. That could well change the tide of a combat. I wouldn't be keen to drop a Warrior Squad from the List. If anybody would be doing the Objective-Capping, it would be them, and not the Wyches - I'd rather have them in Close Combat! With the Raiders still being reasonably fragile, despite their Invulnerable Save, I feel safer having 5 than 4.

As I mentioned above, I've had to alter the Reavers somewhat. The Heat Lances just provide some fast, mobile Anti-Tank. They aren't too expensive, and they provide me with a little re-assurance. The Caltrops are a huge boost to the Squad's capabilities, allowing them to put in 2-12 S4 Attacks during Movement; something that they won't be able to get close to in Assault. Having the S6 there means I can clear out weaker Squads much quicker, or even try to tackle some of the better Close Combat Squads out there. It also makes the prospect of Turbo Boosting 36" over something much more appealing, even if I won't be able to Shoot or Assault.

asimo77 wrote:I would drop all the Splinter Racks. You're dropping a lot of points into a flimsy vehicle, not to mention you can only shoot from the Raider if you move 6 inches or less. And the Splinter Cannon doesn't even benefit from the racks.

Also I second replacing Bloodbrides with normal Wyches. They're cheaper, scoring, and pretty much just as effective.

Some of those warrior squads might want to be retooled as blaster squads or Trueborn with lots of blasters in a Venom.

You may want to consider haemonculi and the like for pain token distribution.

Finally if you still want a CC monster consider Incubi, they got cool models and are very dangerous.

I'm dropping points into it, in order either to make it less flimsy, and more worth its points. 10 Points is a small price to pay for the opportunity to re-roll 9 (or 18, in Rapid Fire) Poisoned Shots which could be the difference between wiping a Unit off an Objective, or having them contest it; taking a Kill Point, or becoming a Kill Point.

The Bloodbrides have a considerable Close Combat advantage over Wyches, for not much of a cost. This is even more important since they're riding around with Malys. It doesn't fuss me whether they're Scoring. I haven't put them in the List to hold Objectives.

I don't see the need for Blasters over Anti-Infantry. I have 19 Lance Weapons across the board. I think that's sufficient Anti-Tank.

A Haemonculi was what I had originally, but I decided that Malys would be advantageous thanks to her ability to Re-Deploy 3 of the Units. If I'm forced to set up first, this can be useful for getting out of Lines of Sight of any particularly nasty threats.

I thought about Incubi, but I decided that I'd rather have the Bloodbrides. That Bloodbrides Unit has over 40 Attacks on the charge, and 12 are Re-Rolling to Hit and Wound. I'd call that nasty.

Trueborn with blasters are better anti-tank than Reavers for far cheaper.

Also, I agree with the other posters about Bloodbrides versus Wyches. Remember you want to kill the enemy in their turn and this gives you a better chance of doing so. The only thing Bloodbrides are really better against are Termies and you're better of cracking that transport and softening then before melee anyway and even then regular wyches are apt enough to win.

Keeping in mind what you're trying to do, I made a list that should play close to the same and keeps the same number of scoring units.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

HQ:
Malys: 130pts.

Troops:
Wyches x8, Hexatrix – 3x Razor Flails, 1x Agoniser: 210pts.
--Raider – Flicker Field
Kabalite Warriors x10 – Splinter Cannon: 180pts.
--Raider – Flicker Field, Splinter Racks
Kabalite Warriors x10 – Splinter Cannon: 180pts.
--Raider – Flicker Field, Splinter Racks
Kabalite Warriors x10 – Splinter Cannon: 180pts.
--Raider – Flicker Field, Splinter Racks
Kabalite Warriors x10 – Splinter Cannon: 180pts.
--Raider – Flicker Field, Splinter Racks

Elites:
Trueborn x3 – 3x Blasters - 146
--Venom – Splinter Cannon
Trueborn x3 – 3x Blasters - 146
--Venom – Splinter Cannon
Trueborn x3 – 3x Blasters - 146
--Venom – Splinter Cannon

Fast Attack:
Reavers x3 – Heatlance: 78pts.
Reavers x3 – Heatlance: 78pts.

Heavy Support:
Ravager – Night Shield: 115pts.
Ravager – Night Shield: 115pts.
Ravager – Night Shield: 115pts.

1,999 points
-65 Models
-11 Vehicles
-5 Scoring Units
-24 Lance Weapons
-10 Splinter Cannons

My list adds 6 lances, 5 Splinter Cannons, & 2 vehicles, at the cost of 8 melee attacks and eleven models.

I suppose. I just like the larger Reaver Squads because they provide something unpredictable. They're not solely an Anti-Tank Unit. They can also turn towards Infantry and shred them up with their Bladevanes/Cluster Caltrops.

I still think the duel role of 2 heat lance 2 caltrops to be wasted points imo. If you could cut 8 points somewhere you could make both those squads 8 man which makes them slightly more scary. If you can cut a further 72 you can make them 9 man with 3 heat lance and make people really nervous

Popsicle wrote:I suppose. I just like the larger Reaver Squads because they provide something unpredictable. They're not solely an Anti-Tank Unit. They can also turn towards Infantry and shred them up with their Bladevanes/Cluster Caltrops.

Though isn't that what you're investing all the points in those Warrior squads to do for you? Splinter racks and splinter cannons are a pretty serious commitment to killing infantry - not to mention how good wyches are at that as well. Your army really doesn't need a dual option unit with a touch of anti-tank, it needs some more anti-tank to help maximize all the points you're spending in anti-infantry which will be unhelpful until you crack open the metal boxes.

Norade wrote:Trueborn with blasters are better anti-tank than Reavers for far cheaper.

Also, I agree with the other posters about Bloodbrides versus Wyches. Remember you want to kill the enemy in their turn and this gives you a better chance of doing so. The only thing Bloodbrides are really better against are Termies and you're better of cracking that transport and softening then before melee anyway and even then regular wyches are apt enough to win.

Keeping in mind what you're trying to do, I made a list that should play close to the same and keeps the same number of scoring units.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Troops:
Wyches x8, Hexatrix – 3x Razor Flails, 1x Agoniser: 210pts.
.

How did you take 3x Razorflails with only 8 Wyches? It's 1 per 5. Bloodbrides get 1 per 3.

Madruk wrote:

Norade wrote:Trueborn with blasters are better anti-tank than Reavers for far cheaper.

Also, I agree with the other posters about Bloodbrides versus Wyches. Remember you want to kill the enemy in their turn and this gives you a better chance of doing so. The only thing Bloodbrides are really better against are Termies and you're better of cracking that transport and softening then before melee anyway and even then regular wyches are apt enough to win.

Keeping in mind what you're trying to do, I made a list that should play close to the same and keeps the same number of scoring units.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Troops:
Wyches x8, Hexatrix – 3x Razor Flails, 1x Agoniser: 210pts.
.

How did you take 3x Razorflails with only 8 Wyches? It's 1 per 5. Bloodbrides get 1 per 3.

I must have been really not paying attention.

Norade wrote:Trueborn with blasters are better anti-tank than Reavers for far cheaper.

Also, I agree with the other posters about Bloodbrides versus Wyches. Remember you want to kill the enemy in their turn and this gives you a better chance of doing so. The only thing Bloodbrides are really better against are Termies and you're better of cracking that transport and softening then before melee anyway and even then regular wyches are apt enough to win.

Against MEQs you'll inflict around four wounds on the charge with the bloodbrides. Wyches inflict about two. Neither will wipe the target out, but the bloodbrides will certainly hurt it worse, and have a very real potential to inflict more wounds through No Retreat! if/when the MEQs lose their morale test and fail to fall back because of the bloodbrides higher initiative. They mop them up on your opponents turn, and are ready to repeat the cycle on the rest of their army. Against dedicated CC units you want to wipe them off the board as best you can, though shardnets are better against MCs. Bloodbrides are far better for the points than wyches (add 33% more attacks and more special weapons for a cost increase of 25%), if you already have enough scoring units.

Malys might confound things a little, adding something like two more wounds on top of that, but you could always multiattack, or just make sure that there's nothing else around to hit them back (or rig it so that if they ignore other targets in favor of shooting up your bloodbrides, they get torn up by them instead).

I suppose the question is whether you want a tarpit that'll be slowly grinding down your enemy's heavies all game (wyches), or a close combat monster that will chew up everything he has (bloodbrides)?

Trueborn on the other hand, unless you're just taking enough to fill up on blasters, aren't really worth the increase over warriors. Leave them as is, and they're identical to normal warriors (except for the 33% cost increase), kit them out with carbines and you've almost doubled the cost per model (an increase of 88%), for an increase of about 30% in terms of damage and a 6" increase in threat range over warriors with rifles in a splinter rack raider.


You're also ignoring night shields on the raiders. They're not as good a deal as flickerfields, but it's not either or, and they're both more than worth their points considering how fragile the skimmers you're paying so much for are without them. On ravagers, they're both mandatory. You're sinking a lot of points into a great tank hunter, paying an extra twenty points to ignore a third of meaningful hits, nerf meltas, and screw with the range of other weapons (not to mention with your opponent who's so confident in their ability to gauge where their weapons will hit they'll easily overlook that no, in fact, their range is actually 6" shorter) is a great deal.

Oh no! You called Dark Eldar "Deldar"! Melissa is coming to punch you in the face!