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so i have a squad of fallen angels and cypher i painted really nice a long time ago and also have ahriman and 2 squads of tsons and a dreadnought i inherited from black reach converted to tsons plus 3 rhinos any suggestion for heavy Support and or changes to make it a competitive army

Thousand Sons
HQ:
Cypher
Chaos Lord
Mark of Tzeentch
Deathscreamer
Total: 145

Ahriman
Total: 250

Elite:
Chaos Dreadnought
Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Total: 100

Troops:
Fallen Angels
Chaos Space Marine(10)
Icon of Tzeentch
Meltagun(2)
Aspiring Champion
Plasma Pistol
Powerfist
Meltabomb
Chaos Rhino
Total: 305

Thousand Sons
Thousand Son(8)
Aspiring Sorcerer
Wind of Chaos
Meltabombs
Chaos Rhino
Total: 314

Thousand Sons
Thousand Son(8)
Aspiring Sorcerer
Wind of Chaos
Meltabombs
Chaos Rhino
Total: 314

Total: 1428
Any Suggestions advice to use existing models and winning mostly play against eldar, dark eldar, vanilla marines, orks, and nids

Thazar wrote:so i have a squad of fallen angels and cypher i painted really nice a long time ago and also have ahriman and 2 squads of tsons and a dreadnought i inherited from black reach converted to tsons plus 3 rhinos any suggestion for heavy Support and or changes to make it a competitive army

Thousand Sons
HQ:
Cypher
Chaos Lord
Mark of Tzeentch
Deathscreamer
Total: 145

Ahriman
Total: 250

Elite:
Chaos Dreadnought
Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Total: 100

Troops:
Fallen Angels
Chaos Space Marine(10)
Icon of Tzeentch
Meltagun(2)
Aspiring Champion
Plasma Pistol
Powerfist
Meltabomb
Chaos Rhino
Total: 305

Thousand Sons
Thousand Son(8)
Aspiring Sorcerer
Wind of Chaos
Meltabombs
Chaos Rhino
Total: 314

Thousand Sons
Thousand Son(8)
Aspiring Sorcerer
Wind of Chaos
Meltabombs
Chaos Rhino
Total: 314

Total: 1428
Any Suggestions advice to use existing models and winning mostly play against eldar, dark eldar, vanilla marines, orks, and nids

You're going to get chewed up by all of those armies. Thousand Suns are VERY expensive to begin with and you're loading up on multiple upgrades instead of spending them on a better unit. You're severely limited on anti vehicle except for the dread and one meltagun squad. I'm not sure why you put meltabombs in a purely shooting squad, but those are also a waste of points. I usually try to stick with Bolt of Change as it's fairly inexpensive for my sorcerors as well, and you're going to need some oblits to handle vehicles/MCs. I suggest dropping the meltabombs and some upgrades off of that extremely expensive 10 man chaos squad and invest in some substantial fire power.

Well assuming drop the squad of 10 chaos to 5 and drop the icon of tzeentch and meltabombs on the 5 man squad and change to bolt of change, although i like meltabombs for a chance at destroying walkers if they assault my tsons so at least have a a chance what do you think about a predator or a defiler never cared for obliterators.

If you're trying to make it competitive Oblits are the best HS option for CSM. I don't think you should drop the squad strength necessarily, and I can see how meltabombs are useful if you're assaulted by walkers. I have found that TS work well in squads of 8, like you have them. Cypher has to stay because the list is based around him, I think you should drop the CSM squad and instead put in another squad of 8 TS, and maybe grab an Oblit or two, or a defiler. Another way to go may be to just run all CSM with marks instead of TS. The only real unit I've found that makes its points back that isn't a marked squad are plague marines, that and I would drop the dread. Your entire army is based in Rhinos and in general I have rarely seen dreads used well in lists, an Oblit to replace him or pred would be much better

Thanks for the advice i trying to go for using models i have and buying one more, also the squad of chaos space marines is done using dark angel veterens so robed and all that trying to keep them to match cypher. I am working with what i have and not sure as far as what to use power wise with the aspiring sorcerers doombolt maybe save points so i can squeeze in one heavy support. Trying to go for 1500 points been debating making a scorpion style defiler my army has a very ancient Egypt feel to it.

Thazar wrote:changes to make it a competitive army

Tzeentch is cool & has the "ooohhh shiny" factor but he just isn't good in this codex. Cost-Effectiveness is way off & I will show you why. 1st by streamlining your list. Then by adding things with the free points. A cumulative "Total Savings" will be kept in red.

Thousand Sons
HQ:
Cypher
Chaos Lord.
Mark of Tzeentch
Deathscreamer
Total: 175

I think you mispelled Daemon Prince with wings, MoN & warptime. In all honesty what does this chaos lord do that the DP can't do better for a scant 30 points more? Run him behind your rhinos & he'll always have cover.

Ahriman becomes a DP with Wings Warptime MoN
Total: 175

Same silly spelling error here. What does Ahriman do that a DP doesn't do better for MUCH less.

Total Savings: 45

Elite:
Chaos Dreadnought
Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Total: 100

No, go read the rules on fire frenzy, for turn 1 & 2 that melta is gonna be pointing at your rhinos. Remove this deathtrap.
Total savings: 145

Troops:
Fallen Angels
Chaos Space Marine(6)
Meltagun(1)
IoC
Chaos Rhino

Troops:
Fallen Angels
Chaos Space Marine(6)
Meltagun(1)
IoC
Chaos Rhino

Total: 290 as opposed to 305. What do you get? Another squad in a rhino. CSM have 3 attacks on the charge, a Pfist may look nice but it isn't needed. Especially if you have nasty DP to back you up. Also you can take on 2 tanks in one turn or more importantly hold another objective (2/3 of all games are objective based)

CSM also don't need a 5+ invuln it won't do them any good. They also don't need squads of 10.

Total Savings: 160


Plague Marines
Plague Marines(6)
Melta
Flamer
Chaos Rhino
Total: 118

Plague Marines
Plague Marines(6)
Melta
Flamer
Chaos Rhino
Total: 118

What do 1k sons have? A 4+ invuln, woop dee doo you should have cover anyway. Overcosted psychic powers.
What do plague marines have for much cheaper? Toughness 5, FNP, Meltas and Flamers

Total savings: 552 Dear lord that's over 1/3 of your allowed points.

What does this buy you?
5 Chosen
2 melta
2 Flamer
Rhino

Total 115. So take 2 of these for 230.
These outflank to kill tanks (2 melta) or burn the enemy off objectives (Flamers)

Still have 322 points to play with.

Need some ranged Firepower? Hey Oblits are good at that. take 2 squads of 2 for 150 points apiece.

That leaves us 22 left. It appears you want a 1,500 point list. So we have 96 spare points.

If you still want that chaos dred:
1 Chaos Dred
Tl H.Bolter
H Flamer
DCCW

He runs forward to try & assault the enemy. Keep him in front or side of your rhinos & he can only glance them on a 6. if he freaks out.

Total: 1499

Any Suggestions advice to use existing models and winning mostly play against eldar, dark eldar, vanilla marines, orks, and nids

Absolutely, DON'T EVER tailor a list to whom you will be playing. Not only does it make you an instant jerk, why not just play Rock paper scissors & ask your opponent kindly what he will throw down so you can counter it. It also makes you a worse player because now you're reliant on your army not your tactics. You won't fair well against anything that isn't what you tailored for & in a tournament setting you're just handicapping yourself.

I know you said using existing models but the problem is your existing models just aren't competitive & I believe I have done a sufficient job showing you why.

I agree as to my models not being competitive in a tournament they have won a couple of games against friends going for cool factor on models hence debating converting a defiler to a scorpion style a small chance is all i want. Looking for one more model and thinking a defiler the best option based on what i have. Thanks for the feedback.

For a defiler just run it with 2 CCW since the battlecannon is madatory & ordnance. If you fire that you can't fire anything else.

Ok.

I see you actually want to play thousand sons, not just deck out what everyone else has for a competitive list. I like that. . Now I have seen a couple of semi competitive lists in my time, and I may be able to help.

Firstly - Ahriman - he is useful, but only if you protect his investment. If you do it right, you are getting 2 +4 to wound rerolled templates a turn with no armor save. That is death to just about any unit. Also, he can chuck out a few ap1 shots a turn. Useful again. Either use him proactively and screen him, or use him as a distraction - chuck him in a rhino on his own (while its owner is at home in cover) and send him up a flank to scare people.

Ok. Your troops. I would lose the plasma pistols - they aren't useless, but definately aren't worth 15 points. So you can reallocate points. I would also think about the icon of Tzeentch. It isn't a bad mark at all, it's just only essential on foot sloggers, if that. Think about it whether you could change it for a mark of glory, or no mark all together. But the melta's are useful.


With the thousand sons squads - meltabombs are good - the worst thing as a 1ksons player is to get locked up in combat with a soulgrinder, dreadnought or something similar which you simply can not hurt in any way. I would change your power from winds of chaos to warptime, however. Why? Because the sorcerer with warptime doesn't suck in combat at all - he becomes a better than average sergeant - plus it means the meltabombs have a 1/3 chance of sticking to a walker. Enough to make people think twice maybe. Also - winds of chaos is only good at point blank - you have relentless anyway. If a whole squad of 1ksons can't rapidfire it to death, what will the template do that much better?

The dread - it depends on how you play this sucker. Honestly, I would say that with the points saved if you lose that icon, plus change around the powers and make some other adjustments - get a defiler. Just as good in combat most of the time, no crazyness. Plus you get a pie plate to shoot with. That's just a suggestion.

Yea K-Sons is my first army had it since 3rd Edition Codex and was running a pure list now with the new rules trying to use what i have to the best of my ability I think i will try warptime and dropping a plasma pistol on the aspiring champion and 2 cc not a bad idea since if something gets close going to assault anyway and not shoot did debate keeping the flamer and autocannon but they the same points for 2 cc. And yea I miss the days of purest armies had screamers and horrors and flamers plus greater daemon meant something waited to buy them and glad i did. Thank you for all the replies and thanks for all the advice me and my friends are not overly concerned about tournament list since we all play each other and no one has what would be called a tournament list all play with stuff that is just neat and cool and well painted my dad runs a 3 ring circus dark eldar, my brother runs nilla marines but he hates land raiders and terminators lol, my friend runs a strange nid list, and my other friend runs a half dakka half speed freeks list. We rarely play over 1000-1500 pts just wanting to fill my tsons out so i can do 1500 with them so i do not always have to play my tau army.