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Been giving these some thoughts.

- How do you calculate combat resolution when monsters are involved?

- Would a unit of 10 pikemen be able to claim a rank on a dragon and thus be steadfast?

1. The same way as everything else.

2. Yes... the dragon has no ranks, therefor a single rank of 5 pikeman would be steadfast.

It hardly seems fair that a hugely deminished unit can muster up the courrage to stand and fight a monster, but it's really something I can use to my advantage, so you wan't hear me complain.

I agree, its completely stupid that one rank of 20 points in models are steadfast against a dragon and his rider.

Heck, it's stupid that a dragon that outmasess an entire unit of spearmen can't bust ranks either.

But them's the rules; we have to cope.

This is to stop the insanity of one model running through an entire army, a la 7th.

Infantry have a purpose now, something sorely lacking in monster-hammer^H^H^H^H^H^H 7th edition.

nosferatu1001 wrote:This is to stop the insanity of one model running through an entire army, a la 7th.

Infantry have a purpose now, something sorely lacking in monster-hammer^H^H^H^H^H^H 7th edition.

I agree with this, and the fact that monster hammer was getting out of hand.

However, I think that just because you have 5 models standing there you shouldnt be steadfast.

Of course that depends on WHAT 5 models are there.

If its 5 peasant archers then im pretty sure they would tuck tail and run... But if its 5 Grail Knights they could possibly kill the dragon, and would stand fast. The problem is you cant go writing the rule in for individual units and, where would you draw the line. Thus we are stuck with 10 points of skaven slaves rolling steadfast against a lord on a dragon.

Yes, although I like the look of a huge army with lots of infantry, i'm kind of missing a reason to include a monster in my armylists.

Heres why you run monsters.


you run them up with other units and combo-charge.

your other unit(probably infantry) can add ranks to the fight while the Monster can rip into the unit and possably drag the unit's ranks below yours.

boom, steadfast removed and now they are taking Ld tests at minus alot.


i think they could give monsters a way to remove ranks if theysaid that every 2 wounds a monster has counts as it having a single rank. wounds that are lost do not count.

Yea I agree that something along the lines of "Monsters count as having 2 ranks" or "Monsters can always disrupt infantry as though they had 2 ranks" would work, or count as having 1 rank per wound remaining. Saves them vs silly things like 5 little guys can be steadfast vs them, but doesn't let them plow through big units, but does give them a flank advantage. I do think there should be a big role for flanking fatties beyond just killing stuff.

In fact, I might go so far as to wish that GW instead of giving thunder stomp to monsters had instead given the a rule to disrupt all ranks in infantry. I don't know how you would do it, and it would probably be more trouble than it was worth (tstomp is decent) but it seems to me that the real trouble with monsters in combat is not necessarily that they can do huge amounts of damage relative to a regular unit, but that they knock them around, scare the men, and generally just ruin cohesion. Having a chance to negate rank bonuses (perhaps negating 1 rank per unsaved wound inflicted?) would make more sense to me.

Odds are good that if you are fighting crap infantry in a vacuum, that they will fail either the terror or the break test (even when steadfast).

If you're using the generals leadership and/or the BSB, you're not really fighting just crap infantry anymore.

-Matt

Yea, but it is still sort of strange that you need 6 dragons to hit a unit in the flank and disrupt their ranks

If anything, bit scary monsters should be better at breaking through fear and such (Terror is pretty weak nowadays) than actually killing. The opposite it true now though.

I think the way to solve this, as grey templar said, is that the monster counts as having 2 ranks, or perhaps 1, depending on its size or number of wounds (not remaining wounds, just base wounds imo).

Exactly, a wounded monster wouldn't be nearly as scary as an unhurt one.

Least we forget Monster got better too, the whole d6 hits at str are super awsome. Eventually the guys will break, it just takes time and patience.