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Ok I have been kicking around the idea of playing a BA army for a while now but I couldn't make a list I really like. I always start out writing a good 2k list, buy it, paint it, play it, then decide how to expand. Anyways I was combing the internet for ideas on how to play BA and I found this article on CNC talking about BA. Check it out if you want. Capture and Control: Blood Angels: Only 2 ways to play BA? Anyways the basic gist of the article is that there are only 2 ways to play BA. Either all DoA or all Mech, both with copious amounts of Spam. That can't be right can it? There have to be other viable builds that aren't just those to styles. No Sanguinor or Astorath builds that are good? No Dread heavy builds that work? Am I missing something?

No, you are not missing something. It's pretty ridiculous to make a blanket statement about the "only ways to play" a modern and quite balanced codex like blood angels.

There are many, many ways to play. Land raiders, dreadnoughts, razorbacks, DoA...

How did you want your blood angels to play? CC monsters? Reactive mech force? Hybrid tanks and jump packers?

Hybrid for sure. But I have been getting reports it can't be done from my gaming circle.

PM me i you'd like, or post something in the army list forums, I'll be glad to weigh in.

Most common ways of playing BA:
razorback/assault squad spam
dreadnoguht spam
stormraven spam
DoA spam
DC spam
sanguinary guard spam
Mech spam

My list is fluffy for my army, but I reccommend going hybrid. It's fun, adaptable, and gamers won't get fed up with you.

I'm not a big fan of cross- site analysis; but sure I'll bite.

bryan40kman2000 wrote: Either all DoA or all Mech, both with copious amounts of Spam. That can't be right can it?

There are very strong tactical reasons why splitting Mech and DoA (a "Hybrid" approach if you will is a bad idea.
Assuming you are taking a Hybrid list, you won't have enough target (armor) saturation to stop the opponent from immobilizing what armor you DO have, and you won't have enough deep-striking saturation to make what units that do deep strike a serious threat.

bryan40kman2000 wrote: There have to be other viable builds that aren't just those to styles. No Sanguinor or Astorath builds that are good?

1> HQ slots do not score.
2> Scoring units are vital for most game types.
thus : Points spent on HQ slots that are not force multipliers for scoring troops are for fun lists.

bryan40kman2000 wrote: No Dread heavy builds that work? Am I missing something?

Dread-Heavy lists are low on mobility, and model count, and not really shooty enough. again, useful for fun lists.


If your competition is primarily "for-fun" go wild, buy what you want, paint what you want.
If your competition is building net-lists... the article has merit.

Whoa, Bryan! Thanks for the link but that wasn't the point of my article . The point I was making is there ARE more than 2 ways to play BA! I think you may have skipped the middle and end of the article a bit. Read it again, I am making the case against the idea that only those two are valid ways of playing BA.

@Shep: I agree, a blanket statement like that would have been pretty ridiculous. I also like the idea of hybrid tank and jump pack BA lists. I was just hard pressed to find one on any of the forums I was looking at our in the tournament scene around here which is what prompted the article.

We have a guy who thinks that a DOA/SG lists are the only ways to play, however he's so anti mech, and few numbered that a green tide, nids and DoC just eat them.

My BA army is only 1000 points and not really specific as of now, but I generally like hybrid lists that have tactical flexibility.

@Shep, I posted in the List Forum for some advice.

@Skipmcne, thanks for the reply. I really have a hard time believing I can't build a balanced competitive BA list. SW can do it and I think the BA codex has just as many bells and whistles. But I guess since I don't see much of them on the net or in my area, you may be correct...

@Overwatch. Sorry, I guess something was lost in translation... But it did start a good conversation.

OverwatchCNC wrote:Whoa, Bryan! Thanks for the link but that wasn't the point of my article . The point I was making is there ARE more than 2 ways to play BA! I think you may have skipped the middle and end of the article a bit. Read it again, I am making the case against the idea that only those two are valid ways of playing BA.

@Shep: I agree, a blanket statement like that would have been pretty ridiculous. I also like the idea of hybrid tank and jump pack BA lists. I was just hard pressed to find one on any of the forums I was looking at our in the tournament scene around here which is what prompted the article.

Yeah, I figured the inference he made was his own, and probably not the point of your article.

But the question here is a good opportunity to introduce some more flexible BA list concepts into the internet..

Spam is comfortable for people, net-lists are filled with spam, because spam is really easy to justify in text format. Without the context of an actual game and without quanitfying generalship. "This unit is really good, just take as many of them as possible."

So easy to counter, such major blindspots.

There is another tactics thread going on asking for advice in dealing with MCs for an all DoA army. The trouble that poster is having is stemming from the extreme nature of his list. An army with monstrous creatures, and in particular, screened monstrous creatures, has been very difficult for him. Its because due to the nature of his army, he has been deep striking next to an even more aggressive army, and handing the initiative over to his opponent. A tyranid army with trygons which are screened by termagants would be quite difficult to beat. He can't out-assault them, and his special weapons will be landing out of effective range.

An all DoA army would have similar difficulties against a well bubble-wrapped mechanized army. An IG army with chimeras and infantry squads pushing back potential deep strike landings could completely shunt all blood angel special weapons on to non-essential targets. The blood angels are left eating special weapon return fire from veterans, and untouched hydra battrey fire, manticore fire or vendetta fire.

Speaking of manticores, I never love that unit more than when someone drops 9+ razorback/predator hulls across from me. Double and triple-wrecking vehicles per strike eagle rocket never gets old.

A DoA list with a full compliment of heavy support autolas predators, a couple baal predators, and one good storm shield equipped close combat unit is a much more terrifying proposition for me as an opponent. It indicates that the player has built a list with few blindspots for me to exploit.

skipmcne wrote:1> HQ slots do not score.
2> Scoring units are vital for most game types.
thus : Points spent on HQ slots that are not force multipliers for scoring troops are for fun lists.
.

And a 6" +1 attack bubble on a unit that is a beast in CC isn't force multiplication?

Shep wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:Whoa, Bryan! Thanks for the link but that wasn't the point of my article . The point I was making is there ARE more than 2 ways to play BA! I think you may have skipped the middle and end of the article a bit. Read it again, I am making the case against the idea that only those two are valid ways of playing BA.

@Shep: I agree, a blanket statement like that would have been pretty ridiculous. I also like the idea of hybrid tank and jump pack BA lists. I was just hard pressed to find one on any of the forums I was looking at our in the tournament scene around here which is what prompted the article.

Yeah, I figured the inference he made was his own, and probably not the point of your article.

But the question here is a good opportunity to introduce some more flexible BA list concepts into the internet..

Spam is comfortable for people, net-lists are filled with spam, because spam is really easy to justify in text format. Without the context of an actual game and without quanitfying generalship. "This unit is really good, just take as many of them as possible."

So easy to counter, such major blindspots.

There is another tactics thread going on asking for advice in dealing with MCs for an all DoA army. The trouble that poster is having is stemming from the extreme nature of his list. An army with monstrous creatures, and in particular, screened monstrous creatures, has been very difficult for him. Its because due to the nature of his army, he has been deep striking next to an even more aggressive army, and handing the initiative over to his opponent. A tyranid army with trygons which are screened by termagants would be quite difficult to beat. He can't out-assault them, and his special weapons will be landing out of effective range.

An all DoA army would have similar difficulties against a well bubble-wrapped mechanized army. An IG army with chimeras and infantry squads pushing back potential deep strike landings could completely shunt all blood angel special weapons on to non-essential targets. The blood angels are left eating special weapon return fire from veterans, and untouched hydra battrey fire, manticore fire or vendetta fire.

Speaking of manticores, I never love that unit more than when someone drops 9+ razorback/predator hulls across from me. Double and triple-wrecking vehicles per strike eagle rocket never gets old.

A DoA list with a full compliment of heavy support autolas predators, a couple baal predators, and one good storm shield equipped close combat unit is a much more terrifying proposition for me as an opponent. It indicates that the player has built a list with few blindspots for me to exploit.

Have you actually tried making BA lists? You can't have enough tanks to reach critical mass, if you want a competent CC army.

Doesn't Astaroth grant the "Red Thirst" on a 4+ instead of a 6+? That and some Sanguinary Priests would make alot of FNP Furious Chargers that could be alot of fun.

whitedragon wrote:Doesn't Astaroth grant the "Red Thirst" on a 4+ instead of a 6+? That and some Sanguinary Priests would make alot of FNP Furious Chargers that could be alot of fun.

He does, but does that really make him worth taking? I wish DC scored because then Astorath would be a lot better. No codex in front of me atm but isn't he just a dude with PW and JP like Dante?

My hybrid list has won me many games. Combines shooty with a trident of close combatty doom. PM if you want me to send it(its 1500pts)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330317.page

Here's a link to my list with no Librarian and a mix of dreads a Jump Packs. It's been playing really well for me over the last month, plus it is really fun!!

Also, I sometimes run ten tactical termies with a Reclusiarch and a Sanguinary Priest in Termie Armor. Supposedly a terrible unit but they are a hugely stable anchor for a larger army that can dish out a ton of hurt shooting or CC. Using a unit a lot and knowing how to play it is really important!!

So to sum up--I agree with CNC, there are many ways to play!!

bryan40kman2000 wrote:

whitedragon wrote:Doesn't Astaroth grant the "Red Thirst" on a 4+ instead of a 6+? That and some Sanguinary Priests would make alot of FNP Furious Chargers that could be alot of fun.

He does, but does that really make him worth taking? I wish DC scored because then Astorath would be a lot better. No codex in front of me atm but isn't he just a dude with PW and JP like Dante?

You don't need to take DC with Astaroth, he makes any Blood Angel with the red thirst gain it on a 1-3 rather than a 1. So all your troops have a much greater chance of having Furious Charge, and Astaroth himself functions like any other chaplain as well as having a S6 power weapon that causes the enemy to re-roll successful invulnerable saves against it.

Yeah I'm going to have to disagree that there are only two ways to play BA. I think your gaming circle mean/want to say that unit redundancy is important. What I mean by that is you should always have at least 2 things in your army that can handle a particular task. That way if you lose one, you're not going to lose your ability to handle that task (ie meltaguns to handle AV14, etc). That being said, it doesn't mean you have to run 6 lazorbacks (las/plas) to win. I do run a hybrid list and it has done very well. The core list consists normally of a couple Baal preds flanked by two lazorbacks. Behind them would be a JP unit with librarian and priest (add furioso librarian if points allow). The entire army is mobile, can pick out priority targets from range, and hit real hard when the opponent eventually hits your iron wall by jumping over with the assault squad.