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The gist of my question is: How would you, using your normal army list, attempt to take on an opponent who fielded this list in a 1500pt game?



HQ
Company Command Squad- Master of Ordinance, Mortar, Grenade Launcher x3
Company Command Squad- Master of Ordinance, Mortar

Troops
Veteran Squad-Mortar, Grenade Launcher x3
Veteran Squad-Mortar, Grenade Launcher x3

HS
Basilisk x3
Basilisk x3
Basilisk x3





I'm asking because I've already got three basilisks, and I've been thinking about adding more, if not for this list then for Apocalypse games. Also it might be worth the expense just to see the faces of people at the FLGS and random tournaments.

In an objectives game I would kill your 2 troops, hide/reserve mine and try to win that way. Wouldn't be much fun but works.

How?

My 1,5k lists are often rather packed with anti armour and reasonable fast and high strength shots.
I'd rush up and pop smoke first turn. Hopefully rush up, disembark and rapid fire a few units turn 2, hopefully kill the rest turn 3. (Back armour 10, stationary guys don't like krak 'nades...)

Anyway, that is just theory hammer, as it's hard to really see how the match up will go. Every party will obviously look at their "best" scenario.
Also, your list isn't really high on anti-armour, each battery will do 1-2 s9 hits rolling 2d6-choose the highest. This might seem as great, but when you think about it it's similar to a vendetta...

One way could be to take a lot of anti tank in your tac squads (melta preferably), or take some speeders with typhoons that zip around causing ruckus.
Your tac squads arrive via drop pods as close as you can to the enemy tank batteries. Then just open up with melta (almost guaranteed to pop one in squad) and assault the other 2. Krak grenades would do well, as would a powerfist. Take lysander if you cold as he will just wreck a tanks day (s10 +1 to damage result).

Deploy troops at full coherency in cover to reduce initial casualties and then advance to run you over while my own batteries play diversion. If I'm playing an army that has the option I deep strike next to you and shoot up your batteries. Even a glancing hit has a 1/3 chance of killing one of those things in squadron. Your guns can kill stuff but you don't have what it takes to stop a determined push.

Faith Points, I guess. They helped the two remaining members of a squad walk right up to two Leman Russ Executioners with no cover and proceed to Melta them over two turns.

Like the others have pointed out the 9 Basilisks not only are your strongest point, but also your weakness. You only have two troops, removed them and you can only contest in an Objective based game (well you could table them to win, but you should get the point).

I'll admit I haven't actually faced a Basilisk for a fair amount of time, but aren't they restricted by a minimum range? If so just rush up and stay in that range I suppose. Their biggest weakness would likely be dedicated Anti-tank assault units as they would likely not be able to shoot at them without hitting another Basilisk and thus being unable to target them or scatter onto them with the chance of doing significant damage.

In my opinion if you want to run them, drop it down to 6 and throw in some more troops to kind of bubble-wrap them on objectives. But, I am not an IG player.

MSU >>> 3 target of shooting a turn. I kill your troops and with everything else and win.

3 open topped vehicles in a squad with side and rear av of 10 die real easy. A penetrating hit will destroy one on a 3+, a penetrating melta gun hit will destroy one on a 2+ with a roll of 1 destroying the gun.

I love bassies, but they are very fragile even when they are not in a squad. That list hits hard, but it is so fragile that it could get tabled in a single turn.

That list is a walk in the park. Theres nothing that can hold up in a fight. Outflank, infiltrate, use heavy vehicles like land raiders. Drop pods (or the like, no idea what army you are) and anything with even a small bite at range is going to wreck basilisks.

The mortars are a joke, why arent fielding autocannons or something better. You dont need more barrage, you have basilisks. Sure it looks like a fun list, but you plan to field that in a tourney?

It may wreck infantry lists, but SON! watch out for DOA blood angels and monstrous creature lists!

Jaon wrote:That list is a walk in the park. Theres nothing that can hold up in a fight. Outflank, infiltrate, use heavy vehicles like land raiders. Drop pods (or the like, no idea what army you are) and anything with even a small bite at range is going to wreck basilisks.

The mortars are a joke, why arent fielding autocannons or something better. You dont need more barrage, you have basilisks. Sure it looks like a fun list, but you plan to field that in a tourney?

It may wreck infantry lists, but SON! watch out for DOA blood angels and monstrous creature lists!

I always play with scout bikers in a doa list, and the damage 10 scout bikers would do on a turn 1 charge against bassie squads would end that list. The scout bikes alone should destroy 6 bassies on turn 1 with 3 power fists and 9 krak grenades. Goind 2nd just isn't an option for that list, and going first would mean the entire doa army would outflank/deepstrike.

An ig army with 3 vendettas and melta vets should be able to take out all 9 bassies on turn 1 with nothing but the vendettas and melta vets. A vet squad in a valk with the demo doctrine would be amusiing and sick overkill for any bassies they come in contact with.

I would laugh at that list with most of mine. As people have mentioned, the fragility of that list is huge -- but what really puts the nail is the coffin is the inability to effectively grab objectives. In 2/3 of the games, all you would need to do is go to ground in cover on an objective for the entire game.

Deep striking melta/chainfist terminators/ lascannon havocs/ chosen with meltas/ anything

My codex doesn't really have a problem with these kinds of things, but others do. I have more than enough deep striking tank hunters than I could ever use

Yes, spreading out will seriously thwart casualties while the fact that there are so few troops will make it difficult to win most missions. Also, as mentioned, the basilisks can only target three squads per turn.

My personal counter would be to use extreme mobility. 3 groups of melta stormies are going to wreck those basilisks in a hurry, without the basilisks getting to shoot at them first. Likewise, Al'Rahem outflanking with some melta SWSs and BiD are going to make short work of all that.

Or just spread out the infantry and charge. You don't need all your little dudes to survive for those dudes with the meltabombs and eviscerators to survive.

Any shooting army that went first would nuke this army in short order. Gong second though, you could put an ass whipping down with some good dice if they started on the board.

BTW, MoO is garbage, I wouldn't bother with them.

Any army that can outflank does so and wrecks bassies.

Any army with transports that goes first moves at least 12" and blows smoke. You get one turn to kill them before being assaulted on rear av10, open topped vehicles.

Going second, reserve and come on with smoke. Now you get two turns to kill them.

Horde armies would have a rough go of it against that.

It is not a bad list, weak in troops big time though. I'd drop a CCS and take another troops unit or two and some chimeras.

I bet it'd be fun to play though, but has some big weaknesses. You'd be better off maxing Russes, IMO.

Drop Pod Chainfist Wolf Lord and Retinue.

Minimum Range: Charge into it

I would field six Tau Piranhas with fusion blasters (Three Squads of 2) and have then run you down.

Kroot in wooded areas. Possible Hammerhead on field.

Yea you would have problems.

Dark Eldar? I have no clue I am still learning my Dark Eldar army, but I am confident you would blow my Dark Eldar to pieces.

Reecius wrote:BTW, MoO is garbage, I wouldn't bother with them.

I once had almost half my army pulped by a master of ordnance, in one shot. Admittedly, I did something extremely stupid (funneled it all into a tight space trying to get a charge off on his command squad and a vet squad), and had the horrible luck to roll all ones for running, leaving me an inch too far away to charge his command squad. I still won, since I took out his vendettas turn one, wiped out all his scoring units turn two, and took down his artillery turn three, but the point stands that the MoO can be devastating, not to mention the whole "it's an unlimited range S9 large blast template for 30 points," even if it's probably going to scatter a bit.

Yea, a Tau force would eat that list alive.

poontangler wrote:Dark Eldar? I have no clue I am still learning my Dark Eldar army, but I am confident you would blow my Dark Eldar to pieces.

Reserve everything if you don't go first, pray he doesn't steal if you do (or give him the first turn just to be sure how things will go), chew up the basilisks with massed lance fire from your raiders and ravagers, charge his troops (and tanks if you have wyches with haywire grenades). So long as your vehicles are properly spread out, he won't be able to target more of them than he has ordnance batteries, and if you can bring down at least one battery before he can get a shot off you're home free, unless you reserved and have extremely horrible luck.

You tell me how that list destroys a Land Raider and four rhinos.

If he scores a direct hit, he can roll doubles for AP, and he has a good chance of doing just that. Plus Land raiders are big sexy targets just itching to be nailed by ordinance.

That list looks really cool, and will be a ton of fun to play.

But, don't take it an even a semi-competitive environment. I have a hard time imagining it doing much of anything.

Although, if you're playing in a HUGE apoc game with a giant board, this might make an excellent army. Just sit in back, 15 feet away from the front lines, and unload volley after volley. Rely on your 3 or 4 allies to keep enemies away from you, and give you a unit or two to bubble-wrap them.

Move my entire army Flat out down your throat.
A unit of fire dragons can easily toast an enitre squadren.

Reecius wrote:

BTW, MoO is garbage, I wouldn't bother with them.

Depends on the point level.

At 1,500 or less I completely agree with you, they are garbage at 1,500. The moo is about as useful as a milk cow on the battle field in low point games.

At 2,500 or more they are a good deal. It's like having another basilisk for 30 points because their accuracy problems just don't matter all that much. The board starts to get real crowded at 2,500, so just aim for a unit that is in the middle of a bunch of enemy units and the moo will hit something...not to sure what will get hit, but it should hit something with 2,500 points of targets on the field.

Descent of Angels will give this list something to think about.

That being said this list will be very fun to play.

Grakmar wrote:That list looks really cool, and will be a ton of fun to play....

Actually I thought that too! I think it's oddly IG themey, much artillery, cool.

Kind of a singular approach to it but interesting, fun to shoot all the templates! Be cool looking also!

It's a nice theme, a very nice theme and would provide a good (if likely fast) game.
However, as others have pointed out, it's not without its flaws.

Your Bassies (your only real strength IMO) can only target three units a turn; that's a huge loss considering their points and firepower.
In my standard 1500pts list, I have 2 LRR's, 2 Razorbacks and 3 HF/MM Land Speeders and most armies have more units than that and IMHO you simply don't have the RoF to stop them...

Augustus wrote:
Minimum Range: Charge into it

Augustus has it right. They have a minimum range of 36", IIRC. Charge into that and you're safe.

Penguinmasterofdoom wrote:

Augustus wrote:
Minimum Range: Charge into it

Augustus has it right. They have a minimum range of 36", IIRC. Charge into that and you're safe.

You understand, they can choose to fire directly and ignore their minimum range right?

Yeah, bassies can fire directly, they just shoot at you more accurately at close range! haha, but you get cover saves from intervening cover.

@Sie Psdonuem and Shadenfreude (Sorry, I know I got those wrong)

Maybe you guys have had better luck with them than I did. I tried using them a few times and the always scatter rule means that even when playing horde armies, I never hit anything. Every. Not once. I stopped trying after a few games as it was just wasted points, IMO. I would take him in Apoc games but that is about it. Far more reliable things to spend your points on for IG, IMO.