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I have picked up IG recently and have a few questions that I am confused with from the rulebook. How to determine cover saves with Barrage/Ordnance/Ordnance Barrage.

1) Do you get cover saves from:
a- Ordnance?
b- Ordnance Barrage?
c- Barrage?

2) If yes to question 1, do they ignore cover saves that Nob Bikers automatically get from their bikes abilities? What about a Big Mek KFF?

3) Correct me if I'm wrong but is the only difference that Ordnance Barrage has from regular Ordnance that they can be fired w/o LOS?


Thanks!

1a; ordonance has nothing to do with ignoring cover saves.
1b; kicker is barrage, you can't take a save from LoS blocking. However KFF and bikes, area terrain stuff of the sort still get saves
1c above

2; no

3; it also hits side armor on vehicles, and ignores LoS blocking terrain for the sakes of cover

Thanks jd

syypher wrote:

3) Correct me if I'm wrong but is the only difference that Ordnance Barrage has from regular Ordnance that they can be fired w/o LOS?


Thanks!

No. Ordnance barrage have a number of extra rules over Ordnanace. Including they use large blast markers (ordnance donot unless stated separately for the weapon), BS skill is ignored and different movement rules. Ordnance barrage weapons may be fired as normal ordnance weapons if you choose. For a complete listing of the rules of ordnance barrage please refer to pg 58 BRB

Ok here are some quick rules with page references to help understand Ordnance/Barrage weapons...



Rules in common:
*May roll 2D6 and choose highest die for armour penetration (BRB: 60)
*Against vehicles may put blast marker hole over any part of hull (BRB: 60)
*May not fire any other weapon (BRB: 58)
*may subtract BS from scatter roll if has LOS to model being fired upon (BRB: 58)


Ordnance
*May move and fire (BRB: 58)
*No Minimum Range restrictions (BRB: 58)
*May choose elevation (BRB: 84)
*Multiple Blasts by squadron scatter as normal for each shot (BRB: 30)



Ordnance Barrage:
*May also fire at at model even if there is no LOS, but may not subract BS (BRB: 58)
*Must remain stationary to fire (BRB: 58)
*must follow minimum range rules for weapon (BRB: 58)
*Must strike the highest elevation that is under the hole in the centre of the marker (BRB: 85)
*Non-vehicle unit(s) that are hit must immediately take a leadership test at a -1 modifier if it suffers an unsaved wound (BRB: 58)
*Cover saves come from center of blast, not direction of vehicle (BRB: 58)
*Multiple Blasts by squadron scatter using Multiple Barrage rule (BRB: 32)
*Use side armour to determine AV for armour penetration(BRB: 60)

mrfantastical wrote:Ok here are some quick rules with page references to help understand Ordnance/Barrage weapons...



Rules in common:
*May roll 2D6 and choose highest die for armour penetration (BRB: 60)
*Against vehicles may put blast marker hole over any part of hull (BRB: 60)
*May not fire any other weapon (BRB: 58)
*may subtract BS from scatter roll if has LOS to model being fired upon (BRB: 58)


Ordnance
*May move and fire (BRB: 58)
*No Minimum Range restrictions (BRB: 58)
*May choose elevation (BRB: 84)
*Multiple Blasts by squadron scatter as normal for each shot (BRB: 30)



Ordnance Barrage:
*May also fire at at model even if there is no LOS, but may not subract BS (BRB: 58)
*Must remain stationary to fire (BRB: 58)
*must follow minimum range rules for weapon (BRB: 58)
*Must strike the highest elevation that is under the hole in the centre of the marker (BRB: 85)
*Non-vehicle unit(s) that are hit must immediately take a leadership test at a -1 modifier if it suffers an unsaved wound (BRB: 58)
*Cover saves come from center of blast, not direction of vehicle (BRB: 58)
*Multiple Blasts by squadron scatter using Multiple Barrage rule (BRB: 32)
*Use side armour to determine AV for armour penetration(BRB: 60)

Bookmark this one kids, this is one we will wanna cite in later discussions.

I am definitely keeping that bookmarked heh. That's so helpful. Thanks for taking your time for that mrfantastical!

One addition, Fast vehicles may fire Ordnance Barrage on the move, page 70.

Thought you had to remain stationary fire fire Ordinance weapons no matter what.

poontangler wrote:Thought you had to remain stationary fire fire Ordinance weapons no matter what.

Well, if you're going to throw around the LAW, yeah, it's a good idea to stand still. But firing Ordnance is different, and can be done on the move.

poontangler wrote:Thought you had to remain stationary fire fire Ordinance weapons no matter what.

Not for a couple of years now.

syypher wrote:I have picked up IG recently and have a few questions that I am confused with from the rulebook. How to determine cover saves with Barrage/Ordnance/Ordnance Barrage.

1) Do you get cover saves from:
a- Ordnance? yes, unless the weapon detail says otherwise
b- Ordnance Barrage? yes, unless the weapon detail says otherwise; cover 'direction' is calculated from centre of blast marker, rather than direction of firer, if the shot was fired indirectly (pg 58)
c- Barrage? yes, unless the weapon detail says otherwise; same as above re direction

2) If yes to question 1, do they ignore cover saves that Nob Bikers automatically get from their bikes abilities? As far as I can tell, yes. The Turbo-Booster rules says nothing about not granting a cover save for blast marker weapons (pg 76) What about a Big Mek KFF? I don't know the KFF rules, but I would assume cover saves apply, unless it states that it excludes blast markers.

3) Correct me if I'm wrong but is the only difference that Ordnance Barrage has from regular Ordnance that they can be fired w/o LOS? No - vehicles cannot move in the same turn as firing ordnance barrage weapons pg 58 (except fast vehicles; pg 70).


Thanks!

Page numbers quoted from the mini-AoBR rulebook; probably different from the big rulebook, I dunno.

Models in area cover always get a cover save regardless of direction, unless the weapon ignores cover saves.

Its been well covered,but you will get cover saves.The weapon description has to say " ignores cover " for you not to get a cover save.Two examples being the Thunderfire airburst and the Whirlwind incendiary missile.

Ulver wrote:
Page numbers quoted from the mini-AoBR rulebook; probably different from the big rulebook, I dunno.

Nope, page numbers are the same.

don_mondo wrote:

Ulver wrote:
Page numbers quoted from the mini-AoBR rulebook; probably different from the big rulebook, I dunno.

Nope, page numbers are the same.

Cool

so when using barrarge doe it have to be fired the minimum distance every time or can you choose between the distances???

jim

When using Ordinance barrage, you place the blast, and if it lies within the minimum distance the shot fails, as if you had placed a blast beyond the weapon's maximum range.

It cannot fire at targets closer than the minimum distance. You can fire at any enemy target (barring other restrictions, such as close combat) between your minimum and maximum ranges.

nosferatu1001 wrote:It cannot fire at targets closer than the minimum distance. You can fire at any enemy target (barring other restrictions, such as close combat) between your minimum and maximum ranges.

I think it's important to note that you don't actually get to check your minimum range until after you place the blast.

So an ordnance barrage can fire anywhere from min to max range but not below min and above max...

got it thanks guys/girls

jim

Actually you do it before placing the blast. You declare target, THEN check range (which would include minimum and maximum) THEN the blast rules kick in, which replace the roll "to hit", which is when you place the blast marker.

Most people shortcut this, but that isnt strictly correct.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Actually you do it before placing the blast. You declare target, THEN check range (which would include minimum and maximum) THEN the blast rules kick in, which replace the roll "to hit", which is when you place the blast marker.

Most people shortcut this, but that isnt strictly correct.

Good point. The main point being that you don't get to check range before you place the blast.

Yeah my friends and i all play no range checking is allowed before declaring shooting, these are clear in the rules..

jimmy72nd wrote:So an ordnance barrage can fire anywhere from min to max range but not below min and above max...

got it thanks guys/girls

jim

"If fired directly at the target, {ordnance barrage weapons} are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons (ignoring the minimum range in the weapon's profile)." Pg 58. You must declare whether you're firing directly or indirectly before firing though.

The exception to this is if the weapon profile states that it cannot be fired directly; a couple of the IG artillery units are examples of this.

So you're correct when saying, "...an ordnance barrage can fire anywhere from min to max range..." but remember you can often fire it as ordnance 'non-barrage'

ok but an ordnance has to have line of sight right.

jim

Yes

Any non-barrage weapon (in general) needs LOS.

Rules in common:
*May roll 2D6 and choose highest die for armour penetration (BRB: 54)
*Against vehicles may put blast marker hole over any part of hull (BRB: 54)
*May not fire any other weapon (BRB: 54)
*may subtract BS from scatter roll if has LOS to model being fired upon (BRB: 33)


Ordnance
*May move and fire (BRB: 54)
*No Minimum Range restrictions (BRB: 54)
*May choose elevation (BRB: 100)
*Multiple Blasts by squadron scatter as normal for each shot (BRB: 33)



Ordnance Barrage:
*May also fire at at model even if there is no LOS, but may not subract BS (BRB: 34)
*Must remain stationary to fire (BRB: 34)
*must follow minimum range rules for weapon (BRB: 50)
*Must strike the highest elevation that is under the hole in the centre of the marker (BRB: 100)
*Cover saves come from center of blast, not direction of vehicle (BRB: 34)
*Multiple Blasts by squadron scatter using Multiple Barrage rule (BRB: 34)
*Use side armour to determine AV for armour penetration(BRB: 34)

Updated for 6th ed correct me if I am wrong.

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