Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was looking through the codex when i took a look at rough riders. A Rough Rider squad has the option of taking two meltas and giving the Sergent a melta bomb. For only 80pts, it seems like it might be a pretty inexpensive anit-tank option.

Since cavalry are fleet, they could be assaulting tanks 18 +1d6 inches away from your front lines. Even if the group fails to take out the tank with a single melta and some krack grenades, they'll be close enough to use their meltaguns next turn, unless your opponent does something to stop them.

It probably wouldn't be as effective as a squad of melta vets, but it's just a little over half the cost of a Vet squad with melta and a chimera. And I don't take valks so I almost always have open fast attack slots.

What do you guys think? Is this a potentially useful unit or do I just have a case of the brain crazies? Has anyone else tried it? Any anecdotes?

It could work I suppose. Quite inexpensive option albeit possibly fragile and competing with vendetta space

Yeah it works, But it isn't that great.

I use them in my footguard as counterchargers. To kills something heavy.
Because they have to use their lances the first time they charge. So if your attacking a vehicle, you've thrown away stuff wich you paid for.

Also, always give them meltabombs, not guns. Cause you're cavalerie with fleet.
This means that you could have charged, before you had to use the meltaguns.
So there's no need for meltaguns.

Looks like an interesting thing to try out. But as kenshin said, things like Vendettas are also FA that are made for anti-tank.

I wouldnt be too sure about leaving meltaguns behind. While they have fleet, they can only have 1 meltabomb. Better be safe than sorry when it comes to anti tank

hmm: lets say your 18-ish inch away.

you could:

1. move 6 inch and fleet. Then hope you don't get shot.
and wait for the next turn to shoot.

2. or you could, walk, run and charge (cavalary can charge 12 inch!!)
and stick a Meltabomb and a couple of krak grenades.

And if you survive you're next turn you can try again.

I'll take number two anyday, and it's 15 pts cheaper.

edit: spelling

It's 80pts with both.

I thought it might be worth it to take both. It's 20pts that can turn the unit into a major threat even to things like land raiders. Most of the time if I can force an enemy to focus fire on a small unit, it means that he's not concentrating on other units.

If i'm facing a mech army, and he gets out to assault then the 80pts was probably worth it.

It would compete with he vendetta's slot, but if I'm running a foot slogging list, Vendettas stick out like sore thumbs. With rough riders there's a good chance they'll get ignored until they actually do something.

It's not a bad idea, but there are better options out there (vendetta, for example).

the same points?

meltabombs= 5 pts
meltagun = 10 points*2

Am i missing something?

And if you're running them small, then they can get killed, fast.
i'm assuming you take 5? then a single razorback can take them out, if you don't screen them.
Also once they are aware of your mobility, they will hesitate to come closer and try to kill the riders first.

That's one of the reasons i take only one Meltabomb. To take out a target of opportunity in 18-24 inch.
Cause it won't happen alot that your fragile unit is going to move in to the 6 inch distant of your opponent.
To melta him.

The first couple of times he might ignore them, but after it?.......... Same thing with the banewolf.

I think that they never can be good choise in anti tank unit! For example sws can have 3 meltas and they pay 65p wich is 15p less! So they are for supporting Is or other assault vunereable units.

Mostly this is how you use Rough riders:

You charge something with your power lances and cause a lot of problems. Mostly theses are terminators or something that hates powerweapons.
Or to help a unit locked in combat.

You give them a meltabomb, just in case they survive. So that they can actually do something after their lances are broken.

also it was never supposed to be a tank destroyer.
But for 5 pts extra you can get some extra tank hunting possibilities, very cheap.

You can use them as tank hunters, but I think they are better used as transport hunters. Arm them with meltaguns and they can pop the transport then lance the hell out of the crunchy crunchy innards that come spilling out

I'd be willing to try it. They're 60pts for a base squad with a bomb. The threat they represent to mid/close-range armoured targets (dreadnoughts, kans, hounds, some lemans, transports that are worth killing because their occupants have gakky saves etc.) is pretty hefty. This is without even going into what they can do to marines and 2+ savers, and at just 60pts.

Two biggest gripes for me would be the usefulness of vendettas and the models. And cavalry bases. Maybe I'll report back when I've built my own with cold ones.

rough riders are not actually the dumbest idea against tanks. Don't take any upgrades to them though. A 12" charge means that they're likely only ever going to be getting in shots that are not in melta range, while the meltabomb isn't all that necessary as the sarge can't use it on the first charge of the game, and he has krak grenades after that.

As for the original point, they're not stupid because you're always attacking rear armor. With a vendetta shooting at side armor of a LRBT with all three guns (which is somewhat generous), you're looking at roughly .75 penetrations. With 21 S5 stickbomb attacks against rear armor AV10, that same russ (let's assume he moved combat speed) is looking at roughly 1.7 penetrations. In case you missed that, the rough riders are over twice as good as vendettas against russes.

Of course, there is a lot of subtlety after that, like which you think is more survivable, a 10-man guard squad, or a giant skimmer with a target painted on it, and what you think your opponent's rear armor is going to be (rough riders aren't that great against land raiders, for example), but rough riders are actually a pretty decent anti-vehicle weapon, which gives them something to do when they're not massacring infantry.

Ailaros wrote:rough riders are not actually the dumbest idea against tanks.

That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day.

I think I'll try them with the extra melta, so that if they survive after the initial assault, they're still useful in future turns. Instead of wandering around as expensive, group of regular guardsmen.

If they live until the next turn, they stand a good chance of being in melta gun range. Unless the tank they went after is a fast skimmer, then it'd definitely be in assault range.

The problem, though, is that meltaguns remove lances, and it's the big pile o' lances that do the damage on the charge (those meltaguns wont' be doing a lot on the charge). After the charge, they get krak grenades for free, so they're still potent anti-tank weapon.

I think it could work... you'd get up there pretty fast I would think.

djphranq wrote:I think it could work... you'd get up there pretty fast I would think.

Not any faster than infantry, which is the problem. They'd be great if they still had the "trot" rule (i.e. move 9" in the movement phase but only if you don't assault IIRC).

with fleet and the 12" charge, they do actually get there faster than infantry. A 24" threat range for a weapon that always hits rear armor is probably going to be good enough to hit something of value every turn it survives.

My question is why? They are a good counter-charge unit for wiping out elites, and you're paying for those lances, so why spend more points on meltaguns? A regular vet squad in a chimera is many times over more survivable and deadly.

If you want a suicide unit to kill tanks for around 100 points, get a min-sized squad of Stormtroopers.

Well right.

I suppose it has yet to be mentioned that rough riders are actually pretty decent against tanks, but in most games, they are highly likely to have a better target for their lance charge. Really, their opening attack should only be used against a vehicle if your opponent has ardently refused to give you anything better to charge.

Once the lances are done, though, being able to hit tanks from up to 24" away with their free krak grenades isn't too shabby, especially as their target priority is likely to plummet after they expend their lances.

sillyboy wrote:Yeah it works, But it isn't that great.

I use them in my footguard as counterchargers. To kills something heavy.
Because they have to use their lances the first time they charge. So if your attacking a vehicle, you've thrown away stuff wich you paid for.

Also, always give them meltabombs, not guns. Cause you're cavalerie with fleet.
This means that you could have charged, before you had to use the meltaguns.
So there's no need for meltaguns.

Unless you use the melta to pop the tank, and the RR to attack the squad inside.

If only RR were given scout, they would be 10x more useful.

They CAN tank hunt, but as a secondary role....

That being said, in an all takers list, there are some opponents (ex eldar) where even the I5 of the RR is not enough. In this case I do use them to assault skimmers which were not finished of by shooting...even at 6 to hit with a lot of attacks you do get to hit....and if you get 3 hits there is a good chance for a penetration roll...

Again this is more of an emergency act, but it CAN work. When the lances are depleted and the RR survive until the next turn, then I use their krak G to go tank hunting. There will be some opponents who underestimate the range of the RR, and they get shocked when their stationary tank suddenly gets charged by Krak G wielding RR....

Don't take Riders specifically to tank hunt, and don't take special weapons for them. As mentioned, you paid for the lances, and then you pay again to not use them. With BS 3. And it also makes them worse at their primary function. All of this reeks of bad idea. Kit them out to focus on their anti-elite role, and be happy that in a pinch they can do decent damage to a tank if needs be without paying any extra points.

If you want a "cheaper than Vets" unit that can take meltas and get close to the enemy quickly, take Stormtroopers with two Meltas. 105 points and you can reroll their deepstrike. Or, add a Chimera and Scout them turn one. Or infiltrate them, if that's your flavor. Or outflank them.

Ailaros wrote:the meltabomb isn't all that necessary as the sarge can't use it on the first charge of the game

This is a very good point.

Makes them even cheaper.