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Hey,

Just wondering, when is an army painted good enough? When can it be called table top quality?
In my group we have a guy who likes it to make jokes about how bad I painted my IG army.
So I was thinking, is my army really painted that horrible as he says it is?
I know that not every minature is a work of art, but some are painted good in my opinion.
So what do you think? Can I show this on the gaming table or do I have to repaint my entire army? And if so, how can I do it better?
I have taken several miniatures, ranging from my company commander to a flamer.

There just..... shiny. Spray varnish?

For a pure gaming army its fine but a bit shiny, try some purity seal or matt varnish, that will take away the glossiness and lose some of the brightness.
It aint what you game its how you game, have fun and they aint your mates if they scorn without advice..

The guy who makes jokes is at best a wind up merchant, but possibly a dastardly bounder!

The basics seem to all be there matey so worry not.
As others have said tone down the gloss with some matt varnish.

Keep practising and working on techniques
Keep the paint thin and consider some washes.

Would also put some basing material on the ... erm.. bases and am not a fan of hand painted names on bases either as they can be distracting. But that is purely a personal preference.

Don't let rotters dampen your enthusiasm and fun!

Hey, I've played against armies that aren't painted as well as yours.

I'd agree that they look a bit shiny though however that doesn't make them not table top quality.

It sounds like your friend is either ribbing you for fun or being a Pr*ck!

Hopefully it's the former and not the latter. Find something to bust his balls about.

Yeah, that guy in your group is a dick.

If he said, "Hey man, I think I can help you out with some paint tips..." that's cool, he's a scholar & a gentleman.

If he's like, "HA ha! What a gakky painjob!" I'd flip him the bird and play with someone else.

As others have said, I'm not a fan of the gloss. However, if you are, just keep it. I've never understood why everyone in this hobby feels they have to matte varnish their stuff if they don't want to.

Sorry bro, he is kinda right.
Totally avoid anything with gloss in the name from now on. I learned that lesson when I first started painting too.
Also, Learn to use more, thin layers. Your flesh colors don't show very well so I would prime with white as well.
With lots of practice, you will eventually get there.

The models aren't terrible, and are basically table top quality, a few points that will make things much nicer:

-Don't use gloss varnish, matte varnish or none, this is the biggest thing I see
-Paint the rims of the bases black, it helps them blend into the table top. Sloppily written (and it's truly hard to do it any way other than this with a paint brush, so don't take it personnally) names detract from the model.

But, no matter what, tell the guy to piss off if he keeps up the criticism, everoyne is at different stages of learning to paint and ability levels. Even mister judgemental at one point was a beginner.

If you are happy with the way your army looks that is what matters. If I saw your army across from me on the table I would just be glad its painted at all I cannot say the number of times I go to a store for a game and the army I play is unpainted or just primed.
If you are entering a painting competition or a tournament that has scoring based on painting that is different, but for casual play I say so long as you are happy with your army that is what matters. By the way I love that you named your models, I always think that adds a lot to an army.

that guy! Your minis just need some matte varnish, and you will be golden. Your painting skills will improve over time, and as long as they are good to you, they are good to me and anyone else you play against. I use very limited paints when doing an army and I always go for a more "dark/grungy" look so it is very easy to replicate and doesn't take a whole lot of skill.

The only other thing that can make your minis look better would be some Washes! That almost turns any mini into a work of art.

loner wrote:In my group we have a guy who likes it to make jokes about how bad I painted my IG army.

Simply put, your "friend" is an donkey-cave. *edited by the Machine Spirit, hah*
If he were just giving you a hard time that would be one thing, but this is obviously bothering you, which makes him look more like the kind of person who enjoys inflicting pain on others for the sake of his own amusement.

Table top quality is a subjective thing, but bare minimum is three colors and glued to a base. Obviously, you're quite a distance beyond that. The only thing that matters is wether or not you yourself are happy with the way your models look. If you were happy with them, then I would say you were done. You say "good in my opinion," and I say that's all that counts. Of course, you've asked for advice, so . . .

First of all, I would try a matt varnish and see if you like that better.
Second, the eyes on some of them (not all of them, Vordon and Sammy jump out at me) are a little blobby, so I would try to go back and redo the faces. Try to make sure the dark color for the eyes is only on the eyeball itself and not the entire socket. Is hard to do unless you have a ridiculously tiny brush. Sammy could use a little bit of an ink wash on his white pants. Vordon has a bit of overpaint where the white from the cuff wandered onto the sleeve, put a bit of brown over that smudge.

After that, it depends on where you want to go -- black lining for the crevices? highlights for the armor plates? squad badges on the pauldrons? Honestly with a "horde" army, its more the overall mass of like-painted miniatures that gives them the characteristic feel.

Honestly, guys, he said "jokes" not taunts or anything. Use it as motivation and keep practicing and looking up techniques till your army looks better than his.

They look table top quality to me. I figure table top quality is based off how it looks from 3 feet away or something.

They really don't look "that" bad...but if you want some tips on how to improve them, so your buddy will shut up, I would suggest using more earthy tones on the IG soldiers. try using browns, tans, and shades of grey instead of the basic colors (like blue, green, etc.). Always water down your paints to the consistency of a little thicker than whole milk. You will notice that it might take a couple more coats to paint a mini, but the end result is so much more realistic. Also after you have painted the mini's, try using different ink washes on them to get a more "blended" look, hard to explain in words but it just looks better after the right ink wash. Now about the gloss clear, try to stay away from the glossy clearcoats, personally I use a flat spray clearcoat from krylon, just remember when it comes to clearcoating, a little goes a LOOONG way. I usually just spray enough to barely cover the surface of the model, too much and it will start to "yellow" your paint job. I agree with the other posters about names on the bases, I'm not a huge fan of that, but that doesn't really matter all that much. For cheap bases, I just paint the rim of the base a dark brown color (think wet mud) after that dries I coat the top of the base(with the model attached) with elmer's glue, then immediately place the base into a small container of regular sand, making sure to coat the entire base. I wait about 2-4 hours for the glue to dry and then hit the whole thing with a quick shot of the flat clearcoat spray. Just my .02 Good luck!

Hans Chung-Otterson wrote:As others have said, I'm not a fan of the gloss. However, if you are, just keep it. I've never understood why everyone in this hobby feels they have to matte varnish their stuff if they don't want to.

The objection to gloss I think comes mainly from the fact that it just doesn't look right. People aren't usually that shiny


For my money, 'Tabletop Quality' means painted in the right basic colours, preferably reasonably neatly. It's not going to win any awards, but it's not meant to... it's just supposed to make the army look cohesive and stand out on the tabletop.

These guys fit that definition, although if you wanted to make them look better without any real effort, I would recommend hitting them with a coat of matte sealer to kill the gloss, and painting over the names on the base edges... Naming your guys can be a nice touch, but unless you can paint really neat text, it tends to look a little scrappy, and drags the miniature down as a result. It's generally better (IMO) to leave the names on the army list, and make the bases neat and non-distracting.

they aren't that shiny in real life are they, i remember them being just normal.

As long as you are proud of how they have turned out then that's fine. After all it's your hobby. Just keep on practising and practising and you will get better. To improve the models you have posted pictures of I would suggest you texture/flock the bases

They're painted to a basic TT standard. I think the bases could definetely use some work, as they act as the 'frame' to the model's 'picture''. A gakky base will drag a decent looking model down, whilst a nice base will make an avergae model look pretty good.

Ways to accomplish this? Prior to spraying the model layer down some watered down PVA and sand onto the base. Then paint the sand Bestial Brown and highlight it with a drybrush of Bubonic Brown, before a final, very light drybrush of Bleached Bone. Finish off with some patches of Scorched Grass, and a Graveyard Earth trim and your models will immediately look 100% better.

I would also avoid writing names on bases. Unless the writing is particularly neat (which, I'm afraid, yours isn't) it will again detract from the overall model (people try and read the base rather than look at the figure itself).

Other than that, follow the advice other people have laid down and you'll see your painting improve in no time.

L. Wrex

They are OK. Not great, not good, but OK.

Take away the shiny coat and cover them in half-n-half Devlan Mud and water (yes, even the white).

Do something about the bases. Anything is better than nothing, really.

There's definitely a "the model on the left is good" recurrent rule going on here

You *REALLY* need to thin your paints.

Hehe, it's nice to get the advice here. I will add some flock or something to the bases.
I will try a different varnish to make them less shiney. In reality they are less shiney, I think it's because I have got a lamp aimed at them.
How much would you advice thinning the paint? 75 paint, 25 water? 50-50?
What washes would you advice? I was thinking about using ogryn flesh, devian mud and black.

As for the rest, I have no intention of entering a painting competition, I ain't good enough... XD
And to be honest, I don't think I would like it. The guard, with an army of round 100 models, don't have to be all a work of art. (And I don't think anyone expects it?)
I think my opponent expects an decent painted army, where all the models are painted.

About the jokes, there is a difference between them.

The usual guard jokes go like this:
We are playing a game, some random kid watches.
A guard squad gets slaughtered in close combat and the kid goes like this: OMG! I mean Uuuh Miii Goat (Spelling...)! Seriously, like totally, Imperial Guard like, totally, suck, totally.

These jokes go like this:
We are playing a kid and the guy stands next to us. Picks up one of my models, looks at it. Laughs loud. Picks up another model almost rolls over the floor laughing and almost the entire store is watching.

Loner, try painting all the basic colours and just washing them, its easy, i did it with my uruk hai once (forget i have uruk hai!!)

Those models are fine for tabletop quality.

The gloss varnish gives them a nice Toy Soldier look, IMO. I have a couple of my armies done in gloss for that reason. Not everyone likes the gloss look.

They're certainly table-top quality, I wouldn't worry about your mates moaning.

If you wanted some easy tips, though (and a lot fo these have been mentioned)

- Base your models properly - even a single colour (grey, green, brown) and some texture glued on top will make the model look much better overall. You don't even need to go as far as highlighting the base - just some ballast/flock over a solid colour.

- If you're going to name your models, do it on the back of the base - it's really hard to do with any skill and always looks a bit messy on the front.

- Generally, colour schemes work best with one primary colour, and contrasting, muted colours. Your green and blue combination is quite hard on the eyes. I'd repaint the green weapons to something that complements the blue, like grey.

- MATT VARNISH. Gloss varnish protects your models better, so you could still put that on first if you like, but finish off with a quick spray of Matt.

- Washes. Your models could really do with some washes - they are a great, simple way to do shading.

- Eyes. If you are having trouble with doing eyes, just dont. When you get eyes wrong they looks quite 'comedy' and blobby, whereas a good effect can be had through using a couple of washes on the face. I have a horrible time attempting eyes, so I don't do them now. I use heavy washes, and then highlight the raised areas, which gives a pretty good face without needing to paint pupils or teeth!

These jokes go like this:
We are playing a kid and the guy stands next to us. Picks up one of my models, looks at it. Laughs loud. Picks up another model almost rolls over the floor laughing and almost the entire store is watching.

Well, first I though you meant me by those jokes, but I never did that ;o

But like I told you before, use washes, and paint in groupes, it's much more fun.

Yeah those really aren't jokes.
But, easiest way to make him stop is to paint better than him and laugh at his models.
There is tons of good advice already here too.

I do not believe those models are table top quality. Your lines are messy, they are extremely shinny, in parts, you use way too much paint and the details are blurred. There are stray marks everywhere, and you've not done besides color the bases in. Even there, the colors are not smooth.

You came here asking for honest opinions and I feel I gave you mine.

Just being nice and telling you your models are fine the way they are is a detriment to you. My advice to you would be to take your time with the models, get finer detail brushes, buy more paint, learn to wash/dry brush/detail. And for the love of god, use a pallet and do not direct dip your brushes into the paint pots.

Don't take any S*** about how you paint YOUR miniatures. They're fine, i even have a certain fondness for 'shiny' miniatures (makes them look 'finished'). I bet you the haters armies aren't even painted.

While you shouldnt take any s*** you should always be open to Constructive Criticism:
My only major problem is that they have names on the bases, i dislike that (even if it is a pro painted mini!). I'm not gonna lie and tell you they are magnificent but they are neat enough and all you need is to practise a bit of highlighting or just use some washes. The operative word is practise, you dont have to be artisitic or talented to paint great miniatures you just need to put in the time.
PS. The paint isn't too thick but the varnish IS, the varnish works as a lense and makes the paints look distorted and blobby.

Taoofss wrote:I do not believe those models are table top quality. Your lines are messy, they are extremely shinny, in parts, you use way too much paint and the details are blurred. There are stray marks everywhere, and you've not done besides color the bases in. Even there, the colors are not smooth.

You came here asking for honest opinions and I feel I gave you mine.

Just being nice and telling you your models are fine the way they are is a detriment to you. My advice to you would be to take your time with the models, get finer detail brushes, buy more paint, learn to wash/dry brush/detail. And for the love of god, use a pallet and do not direct dip your brushes into the paint pots.

Ill agree With Taoofss. At first I thought my brother had painted them (He is about 6).

1. Too much gloss. Way too much gloss.
2. It really looks like a 5 year old painted the,. Sorry to say. The solid blue just looks childish to me, The white and blue pants looks like you dry brushed the white over blue
3. The green on the weapons seems out of place.
4. The name on the bases seem really really childish.
5. Keep on working it at it. Youll get it eventually.

Look man, at the end of the day no-one has the right to laugh at anyone else's army, its not a competition its a game of toy soldiers.

If your happy with them then dont pay any attention to him, they are your after all.

They are not bad to me, there not the best but i would happily play against them on the table top.

If you decide that you want to strip them and have another crack at painting them up then please read through this painting guide FULL PAINTING GUIDE its a wonderful guide with every technique from drybrushing to NMM (non metalic metals) written by a good online buddy of mine and it helped me alot, just check out my SM wip...lol.

Happy Gaming buddy..

Jim