new army choice help

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**pwner50**

Hey guys, I have come back from a break from 40k and have decided to begin a new army, and have noticed that the dark eldar and blood angels have new codex's. I really like the models for both, and I see that they are both very fast and strike very hard. But I tried looking at many forums and other things and just can't get a good overall idea about the two and what really sets them apart when it comes to choosing one or the other. I also know BA are much more forgiving because of their armor value, but both have really interesting things. I would just like to know what each armies general pros and cons are since I don't have access to either codex at the moment. And any suggestions for each are also welcome.

thanks so much!

**Grey Templar**

Blood Angels:

Pros: fast, durable, all Deep Strike army is feasable, batnipples.

Cons: viewed as very Cheesy, certain builds may result in Groinal pain, lots of players, batnipples.

DE:

Pros: Fast, many popular builds, loads of new models(most of the range), powerful alpha strike, not viewed as Cheesy.

Cons: fragile, relys on low armor vehicles.

**pwner50**

Thanks for that summary, but why are they cheesy? I mean I know about the deepstriking landraiders, but other than that I don't really see anything to crazy. Then again, I know nothing about the new dex.

And for the DE, what did you mean by powerful alpha strike?

thanks so much, and any other comments will also be appreciated.

**juraigamer**

BA are more of a finesse army, though they can be geared to just smash your opponents face in.

Then again, DE are much more unforgiving then BA, so in that sense, you should start with BA.

I recommend getting the codex and working out a 1500 point army list, make it good and make it how you want above all else. Then get the models. This way, you don't buy something you won't ever use.

**TheRedArmy**

Alternatively, you can get both codicies and see which one appeals to you more. Dunno if you feel like spending 50 or so dollars on books, but it's an option.

DE are a glass cannon - They can hit hard, have multiple ways to stall or destroy vehicles (Lances can usually be counted on to at least get some damage in, haywires are the same, including new Haywire Grenade Launchers), and in CC many units outside of basic warriors can be fierce.

BA are a tough, hard-hitting army. I don't know tons about them, but I know at least one unit can assault out of Deep Strike and with fast Rhinos you can cross the board reliably in just over a turn.

DE are very fierce now. I play Eldar and only drew the last game because my opponent had a new list and forgot to put over 200 points of Scourges on the field. If he had fielded them, I would have been toast. If DE go first, they can cripple and opponent in just one turn. If they go second, they can lose before they even get to go.

**MechaEmperor7000**

You can read the books in the store to get an idea of what you want. Also, I'd have to agree with others that BA is probably a better starter army. Remeber in DE, more often than not your armor save is going to be a 5+, with rarely anything going to the 4 or 3+ range. with a 5+ save, this means that most race's basic sidearm can pierce your armor, let alone their heavier guns.

Blood Angels are considered cheese because of the large amount of really unfluffy, downright ridiculous (Deepstriking Land Raiders!?) and at times broken units (Mephiston comes to mind). Their basic perk over normal SM armies is their close combat ability. They're more geared for speedy insertion and massive face re-arrangement. However, unlike the DE, if you screw up, the SM's Toughness, Armor Save, and Feel No Pain bubble should be more forgiving than the DE's paper thin armor.

**pwner50**

Alright, thanks so much for the suggestions guys!

I'm taking your words seriously because as a 7-year player, using space marines (vanilla), tau, sisters/gk, and chaos, I don't usually play to well and forget essential rules, so i do think a forgiving army would be good.

At the store I play, pretty much everyone plays lists with heavy amounts of tanks, and landraiders usually mess me up pretty bad. Also, a friend of mine has imperial guard and beating him is extremely hard because of his shooting line, so I was wondering if or how BA or DE can fight them?

And also, how would BA close combat compare to chaos berzerker cc?

And one more thing, why are the BA considered cheese?

thanks so much for the help!

**Grey Templar**

Bas are better in CC simply because they are durable with their FNP bubbles. a BA marine will last twice as long in CC as a normal marine because he has FNP.

they can also take Assault squads as troops. 3 base attacks with PA and FNP from a Priest is pretty tough to beat down without Power Weapons.

BA Assault squads can also handle Tankhunting because they can take Melta guns unlike Vanilla Space Marines.

BA can certaintly handle Mech guard. they only Scatter 1d6 when deep striking so they can drop inside melta range with confidance. Dante can deep strike without scattering, allowing a Honor Guard squad to be 100% garanteed of a good shot.

or they can start on the table and just fly like the wind towards the enemy. even just 3-4 Assault marines can rip a IG squad or tank to shreds.

**pwner50**

Thanks so much for the info Grey Templar. I think you have pretty much sold me on BA.

Just curious, you said assault squads are really fast, so I probably don't even need any transports? or would I need some for something like death company? And speaking of death company, are they worth using, and where would you use them over something like assault marines?

thanks

**Grey Templar**

BA assault squads can drop their Jump Packs inexchange for a hefty discount on any Dedicated transport(Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods, and Land Raiders)

or they can fly towards the objective.

i like Jump Packs, but the idea of 10 marines and a Priest spilling out of a LRC is also appealing.

**pwner50**

And one more thing for now, are the sanguinor and the guards worth it? or the honor guard? or is there something else better worth the points?

and I'm gonna see if I can get my hands on a codex tomorrow, and maybe try making a list. thanks so much for the help!

**Grey Templar**

Sanguinary Guard are decent, but they are fairly fragile because they don't have an invuln. keep a priest nearby.

the Sanguinor is a good unit, although he is one of "those" units. you might get flak for using him.

**gmaleron**

Or do the smart thing and ignore the Space Marines and join the true defenders of humanity...the Imperial Guard! Who needs pansy @$$ power armor when you get a lasgun! Who needs terminators when you get Tanks, not mention a few hundred buddies to take the bullet for you! Who needs deepstriking landraiders and shiny gold dudes with wings when you get, dare i say, Vendettas! Yes sir the Guard is the perfect fit, that is if you got a pair

**Hückleberry**

I would rather see him use Sanguinor than Mephiston. Mephiston took out one of my Bloodthirsters and 4 Bloodcrushers in the most recent tourney I was in.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Dante might be an alternative to Sanguinator if you dont want backlash for using him. Plus his rules are good for attaching him to a Sang Guard unit (you get a relatively "free" deathmask, non-scattering deep strike, and hit and run).

**pwner50**

Why would there be backlash for using the sanguinor?

And are death company commonly used, or are they overpriced? And if they are used, do people give them assault packs and swords or something else?

thanks

**MechaEmperor7000**

Space Jesus's (as I hate spelling Sanguinor) rules are rather bladantly overpowered. He bascically uberbuffs one sarge in your army, as a 2+ armor save combined with a 3+ invulnerable save (basically the best combination in the game) WITHOUT the detriment of Terminator Armor (so that I6 comes really in handy in catching your loosing ass), Has furious charge on top of his S5, and has a Glaive Encarmine, so as to make sure almost all of his attacks hit, and really easy to wound anything short of a MC. And Eternal Warrior too. His only detriment seems to be a lack of a ranged weapon.

**Grey Templar**

and not having a ranged attack isn't a problem when you move 12" a turn.