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In other Daemon players' experiences does this guy run due to his special rule a lot? I'm thinking of running him but the thought of a model that expensive points wise just disappearing doesn't sound too hot.

With a good LD, and the average of rolling 2d6 being 7, and 8 and 9 being more common, he passes more often than not. I've had good results with him, but running 3 Heralds for his price is just so tempting...

He is amazing. He makes a Fatecrusher a top tier army.

It takes 9 wounds to reliably go through his 3++ reroll. Then, he has a 5/6 chance of passing his leadership test.

So he very rarely runs away. PBS or other LD modifying units can make this worse, but you can mitigate this with target prioritization.

Fateweaver is one of the most resilient models int he game and he is a HUGE force multiplier.

The real way to kill the Space Chicken is just weight of fire or tie him up in HtH and pull him away from the other units that do the actual killing.

Either way, though, he is super good. Plus his shooting is solid as well.

Until the GK come out and make Fatecrusher cry. Even if the Shieldbreaker ammo from the Vindicare isn't what the rumors say, I have a feeling Daemons are going to be reeling until 6th Ed. after April.

@footsloggin Yeah tzeentch heralds on chariots seem like a nice alt.

@puma713 Hopefully they don't make it to where GK own Daemons that hard. I have a feeling also running into a GK player is gonna be similar to running a Daemon player lol.


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@Reecius Yeah I think I'm going to give him a whirl and see how it goes.

Hückleberry wrote:...I have a feeling also running into a GK player is gonna be similar to running a Daemon player lol.

Im very curious about that also, I was wondering similarly.

I am doing a Fatecrusher army too, I think it's awesome! I think I'm more afraid of deep strike mishaps than whoops poofs, but I haven't played any games yet. Reecius' comments are encouraging.

Hückleberry wrote:

@puma713 Hopefully they don't make it to where GK own Daemons that hard. I have a feeling also running into a GK player is gonna be similar to running a Daemon player lol.

Yeah, it may not be too bad, but if the Vindicare rumors are true, then the Fatecrusher build itself will be effected in the extreme, more than the rest of the Daemons codex.

You guys make good points on Daemon Hunters, although they already punk Fateweaver. Psy Cannons destroy him as is.

It will depend on how popular Daemon Hunters are. But if that Vindicare rumor is true, wow.

For the time being though, Fatecrusher is still brutally effective.

Reecius wrote:He is amazing. He makes a Fatecrusher a top tier army.

It takes 9 wounds to reliably go through his 3++ reroll. Then, he has a 5/6 chance of passing his leadership test.

So he very rarely runs away. PBS or other LD modifying units can make this worse, but you can mitigate this with target prioritization.

Fateweaver is one of the most resilient models int he game and he is a HUGE force multiplier.

The real way to kill the Space Chicken is just weight of fire or tie him up in HtH and pull him away from the other units that do the actual killing.

Either way, though, he is super good. Plus his shooting is solid as well.

it can't be said too many times how much this one model effects BOTH armies. for daemons: he adds uncanny staying power. for enemy generals: he adds an extra layer of strategy that you just don't have to worry about when facing daemons.

333pts is a huge price tag but i feel he's worth every penny.

Agreed. He is so damn good. The only other HQ units I would consider taking in a competitive list would be Tzeentch Heralds on Charriots, BT or GUO.

Reecius wrote:Agreed. He is so damn good. The only other HQ units I would consider taking in a competitive list would be Tzeentch Heralds on Charriots, BT or GUO.

He is, but he's also a lynchpin. I've seen a game with yermom's Daemons go horribly awry simply because Fateweaver had a bad scatter. The rest of the game fell apart because Fateweaver ended where he didn't want him.

And, from what I've gathered, yermom isn't a shabby player by any means. He's the type of general that can bounce back from a bad scatter. That coupled with being a daemon army relying on Fateweaver is risky.

However, risk is what the Daemon codex is all about

Very true. A bad scatter does screw things up for Daemons, big time. But, as you said, that is the nature of the army! I played all deep striking armies through 4th ed (Pod Marines and Drop Troop, MSU IG) and I know the feeling well. When it works it works big, but when it goes wrong, it goes wrong big!

I have not played Yermon but everything I have read or heard is that he is top notch. He is in the top 20 or maybe even top 10 in the USA on Rankings HQ, I believe. He is definitely no slouch!

Up in the sky. . . It's a bird . . It's a plane . . It's. . .CAPTAIN MATHHAMMER!!!

His chance of failing a save (1/3)*(1/3) = 1/9 = .1111111 (11%)

His chance of failing a Ld test:
6,6
6,5
6,4
5,6
5,5
4,6

6/36 = 1/6

1/9 * 1/6 = 1/54 = .0185185185

There is slightly less than a 2% chance that he will run away from any given wound. Meaning to make him run away he will take an average of 50 wound, he will die from his wounds LONG before he runs from the field.

puma713 wrote:

Reecius wrote:Agreed. He is so damn good. The only other HQ units I would consider taking in a competitive list would be Tzeentch Heralds on Charriots, BT or GUO.

He is, but he's also a lynchpin. I've seen a game with yermom's Daemons go horribly awry simply because Fateweaver had a bad scatter. The rest of the game fell apart because Fateweaver ended where he didn't want him.

And, from what I've gathered, yermom isn't a shabby player by any means. He's the type of general that can bounce back from a bad scatter. That coupled with being a daemon army relying on Fateweaver is risky.

However, risk is what the Daemon codex is all about

That my friend is why you start off with fateweavers deepstrike, and then continue on to deep strike everything else around him. You do it any other way, and your just asking for trouble.

wow, now that's an entrance Captain!

i play against daemons about once a week and i've never seen fateweaver run. from my expiriences with him, i'd call it a quirky if not annoying fluffy rule to make him sound "risky".

Fateweaver flees quite a lot whenever Guard remember to bring their Battle Psykers...

Eh ONE guard list that isn't even the most competitive out there. Not much to be worried about IMO, if you worry about every specific enemy why not just play RPS?

Yeah, PBS makes Fateweaver cry, expecially when you have PBS and an Inquisitor with a Psycannon.

Just depends on how much you see PBS in your local. It still takes 9 wounds on Big Bird to reliably get one through his 3++ with reroll.

He's a tough old buzzard, for sure.


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Plus, if you see PBS, make sure to kill them first if at all possible.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Eh ONE guard list that isn't even the most competitive out there.

Gotta love this. Because the game has nothing to do with the general, the missions, the dice rolls or the opponents. Said list isn't "net-competitive", so it won't be around. I've seen my fair share of PBSs recently and they were used effectively not because of the competitiveness of the list, but because of the competitiveness of the general using them.

You folks must not play much vs space wolves or BA with fateweaver.

puma713 wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Eh ONE guard list that isn't even the most competitive out there.

Gotta love this. Because the game has nothing to do with the general, the missions, the dice rolls or the opponents. Said list isn't "net-competitive", so it won't be around. I've seen my fair share of PBSs recently and they were used effectively not because of the competitiveness of the list, but because of the competitiveness of the general using them.

PBS should be in any competitive guard list. Its too good, to not be included. And Yes PBS is a good unit against fateweaver, however you still need to land a wound to begin with for it.


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imweasel wrote:You folks must not play much vs space wolves or BA with fateweaver.

What do space wolves or BA have that can reliably counter fateweaver?

italiaplaya wrote:PBS should be in any competitive guard list. Its too good, to not be included. And Yes PBS is a good unit against fateweaver, however you still need to land a wound to begin with for it.

Speaking of PBS in Guard lists - you can still take Callidus assassins with the Witchhunter's codex yes (seeming as GK's ability to dole out assassins to Guard armies is about to vanish)? You simply have to take an Inquisitor to take her?

italiaplaya wrote:What do space wolves or BA have that can reliably counter fateweaver?

Jaws and lots of Baal preds?

I don't think I want a 300+ point model having more than a 1 out of 6 chance of just going bye bye that's such a lynchpin to an army.

imweasel wrote:

italiaplaya wrote:What do space wolves or BA have that can reliably counter fateweaver?

Jaws and lots of Baal preds?

I don't think I want a 300+ point model having more than a 1 out of 6 chance of just going bye bye that's such a lynchpin to an army.

Not really afraid of baal preds. And I wouldnt say Jaws is a reliable way to kill fateweaver, you still need a 6. He has worked wonders for me, and has always proved to be a MUST in my list. For what he does, he's well worth the points.

Italiaplaya's Fatecrusher list is one of the best Daemon lists I have ever seen or played against, he definitely knows what he's about. And trust me, Jaws ins't that reliable! Haha, I have tried to Jaws the dumb bird many times, and he can always just fly away from your rune priests, too.

Fateweaver is amazing, play against him and see just how frustrating he is. Last game I played against him, my entire army shooting and assaulting did 2 wounds total in 4 rounds (not just to Fateweaver but to the entire army because of his reroll)! That isn't common of course, but things like that happen. He let's every unit with one model within 6" reroll ALL saves apart from FnP (armor, invul, cover). Too good.

@imweasel
Ball Preds? Hmm, I don't think so. You need to put 9 wounds on Space Chicken to reliably wound him.

Ball Pred a.cannon would put on about 3 wounds, the h.bolters would do 2.

5 wounds from a Baal equals about 0.5 wounds to Big Bird through the rerollable 3++.

Not that great, really.

The best things for Big Bird are massed flak fire like HB devs, Fire Warriors, Blob squad IG, HWSs, etc. Get him into combat, that is where you can neutralize him. Lock him in combat so he can't fly around giving his aura ability. He sucks in combat too, and can't shoot. Tarpit him and then ignore him.

He is amazingly hard to kill. Yes there is that small chance he'll go poof, but in 9/10 games he will either not be shot at all because it is so frustrating or he soaks an amazing amount of firepower before dying.

Heavy Bolters are overcosted on Devestators. Why not use more commonly competitive examples like Hydra Tanks, or Lootas as a benchmark for what Birdbrain dislikes; (oh and Seer Councils too as another example). While we're at it, he also dislikes Orks. Especially if they brought Kans to attrition the Bloodcrushers and Boyz to bog down Fateweaver...Nids attrition Fatecrusher lists quite nicely too when built for shooting.

I've used him and played against him with my tau and nid forces.

I think he is a lot of fun and useful but pricy. I've been running the Skarband + Slaneesh heavy list mainly these days.

Fate crusher WTF pwnt my nids the last time I played them, I couldn't even touch him until turn 5 when my stealers caught up with him, but there wasn't enough time to clear out the objective holders.

Using my Tau however, I found fateweaver easy to deal with. Dual Fish o fury with ML support was pretty painful for him.

@Magicjugler
Yes, HBs are overcosted for CSM, but not for wolves (although a good Wolf list will max MLs).
Hydras can do it, but again, they don't put out that much firepower for Big Bird. Hit with 3, wound with 3, do .3333 wounds. If you had 6, you would hit with 18, wound with 15 and do roughly 1.5 wounds. Still not very impressive. Over two rounds of shooting you would drop him.

And Orks tend to get wasted by Fatecrusher. I don't know if you have seen it played out before, but I have a few times. Fiends/BT/DPs and even Space Chicken himself obliterate Kans and Dreads with ease. Since all of those units are faster, they should always get the charge on the slower Kans baring bad play.

Fiends and Crushers WASTE boys in droves. It is ugly. Ugly, ugly. So long as the Daemon player doesn't make a large error or have a truly bad scatter, the crushers should not be assaulted by the Kans in a typical Kan Wall formation. Horde Orks and Kan Wall Orks are not very maneuverable, so the Daemon player should have the advantage there.

Last tournament I played in, Italiaplaya's Fatecrusher Daemons damn near tabled an Ork list that was a combination of Lootas/Nob Bikers/Horde. It was ugly. If the Ork player managed to get Kans or Dreads into the Crushers, then well done, the game is a lot more likely to be won, it is just not easy to do. Orks take up a lot of space on the table. SM/C:SM dreads are more likely to pull it off as they are more maneuverable due to more space and faster units to both screen them and get out of their way.

The same goes for getting Boyz on Fateweaver. If you can pull it off, great! It is just hard as Fateweaver can fly and should be screened from assault by other units if played correctly.

You are right though, lootas would be good, so would Dakkagants. Poison units, especially hormagants would be great, but multi-wound TMCs might not do so well as they can be insta-killed by Fateweaver.

@Arcadia
Yeah, I think of all armies, Tau have some of the best odds for killing Big Bird. Massed strength 5 on mobile platforms is a great solution. Plus with Tau mobility, they can run away from the BCs and focus on killing the mobile stuff like Space Chicken, BT and Fiends.

Bugs do get it rough against Daemons in a lot of lis tmatch-ups. Same with Dark Eldar, the evile space elves can just kick the crap out of both Bugs and Daemons with all that poisoned shooting and lance weapons.

Reecius wrote:@imweasel
Ball Preds? Hmm, I don't think so. You need to put 9 wounds on Space Chicken to reliably wound him.

Ball Pred a.cannon would put on about 3 wounds, the h.bolters would do 2.

5 wounds from a Baal equals about 0.5 wounds to Big Bird through the rerollable 3++.

Not that great, really.

Well unfortunately I don't have a BA codex on me, but if you fire more than one baal at him, you statistically will force a roll. However, I don't know about the libby power that gives a -2 on LD, if that's 'instant' or for the turn.

It's still easy to force at least one leadership per shooting phase. 300pts gone 1/6 of the time that's a lynchpin in an army is not a fun thing to go with.

imweasel wrote:

Reecius wrote:@imweasel
Ball Preds? Hmm, I don't think so. You need to put 9 wounds on Space Chicken to reliably wound him.

Ball Pred a.cannon would put on about 3 wounds, the h.bolters would do 2.

5 wounds from a Baal equals about 0.5 wounds to Big Bird through the rerollable 3++.

Not that great, really.

Well unfortunately I don't have a BA codex on me, but if you fire more than one baal at him, you statistically will force a roll. However, I don't know about the libby power that gives a -2 on LD, if that's 'instant' or for the turn.

It's still easy to force at least one leadership per shooting phase. 300pts gone 1/6 of the time that's a lynchpin in an army is not a fun thing to go with.

A leadership per turn? You'd have to have A LOT of shooting. And basically disregard the rest of the army in order to even maybe have that happen. Its safe to say you could fire all 3 baals at him and have him take no damage if your rolling reasonably average. Ive played reeces missile wolves and have had fateweaver live thru atleast 30 to 40 missile launcher shots (maybe more as he runs over 25 missiles in his list) in a duration of a game only taking maybe 1 wound. Sometimes even none.

Quite frankly, its easy to say fateweaver is well worth the points.