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**UPDATE 4/11/2011**
Army Creator Mobile is now available on the Android Marketplace (released 3/26/2011). There is a Lite version for those that want to give it a try before buying. The dat afile that is available to download for 40k now includes the Grey Knights as well as 12 other armies.


**UPDATE 1/23/2011**

I have updated the app to include some new functionality. There are now 2 views here and editing the list is easier. The main edit screen (the second screenshot below) has items that are both clickable and moveable so that there are less menus to navigate for editing and now the list can be sorted. The third screenshot shows the menu that displays when you click on a unit. The old view is still there and can be accessed through a menu option (this is the last screenshot). I've also changed this screen so that the format of the stats fits better on the screen.

**END UPDATES**


I mentioned this in another thread asking if there are mobile army list apps for smartphones. I have been working on one in my spare time and have it in workable form. Right now there are only three armies that are included. These are Space Wolves, Daemons and Necrons and I plan on the rest of the 40k world eventually. This app is NOT on the Android marketplace yet. I have also attached a couple of screenshots here.

I'm posting for two reasons:
1) I need testers. Anyone who has an Android phone that would like to test this out, please let me know. I can email you the .apk file and instructions on installation (very simple to do).
2) Anyone familiar with the potential legal issues if I sell this on the Android market? AB is able to sell their product without any issues from GW, but I don't know if they have a special exception. This app only counts the points and the options without giving any descriptions, so you still need to buy the codex to use this.

Font looks...tricky.

As far as legal issues go you should be 100% fine. You'd be charging people to do something GW has no control over in the first place, building a list is something the customer does by themselves and whether they pay to do that or write it down on a piece of paper with a calculator is their own business. (At least to my knowledge)

P.S. Make the font visible, the reason AB is so popular is because it's so simple.

Inclusions of stat-lines would be a no-no. Army Builder works because they do not maintain data-files, the users do. The users are generally left alone because they do not gain profit from the data-files they make.

I'll second the new font suggestion. Something incredibly easy to read is better than something fancy.

I'll also say this is awesome and if you do BA next I'll test it out.

Thanks for the comments so far. Font is easy enough to change and I'll consider that. I don't like the standard Android fonts, but I guess something that is more "blocky" would be better.

As for AB, the users may maintain the lists, but files and updates are so seamlessly integrated into their product that it might as well be a part of the program. I'm not saying that the point is wrong, but that seems like a fine line if that is the case.

Dose it come in Ipod flavor?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dose it come in Ipod flavor?

Happygrunt wrote:Dose it come in Ipod flavor?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dose it come in Ipod flavor?

Unfortunately, this is only Android for now. If this turns out well, I may think about an iPhone version, but that is a big if at the moment.

Look to the AB model on how to sell the program. I bet you will get into trouble if you make the program in such a way that it makes GW codexes unnecessary.

Of course files and data is incorporated so seamlessly into the AB program, they are made with the AB file creator. The point is that the files are not made by AB itself, but by fans.

If you make an iphone/ipad version I will be all up on helping you test it and if it turns out great then I would totally use Dakka to champion your product (so there's some incentive for you).


However, in order to avoid legal issues, here is what you need to do (coming from someone who IS not a lawyer, of course):

1) You need to remove any and all references in the app towards 40K or other company's IP. Instead, make it a generic army list entry device that people can manually put their own info into.

2) you need to remove all references of stats and point values for their games...again you need to allow users to enter this stuff themselves.


HOWEVER, the way to make this work (and how Army Builder does it) is to allow 'files' to be imported into the app that provide this information (point values, unit names, etc).

Then these files need to be hosted on a site not direcly affiliated with your app. So once users download your app they then can go and upload the different files for the different types of games out there.

As long as volunteers are making these data files and not getting any money from the sale of your app, you should be fine.


But yes, if you put out an app with the unit names, point values and stats in GW's games they will eventually force you to cease sale on you app or sue you.

So it sounds like people are in general agreement that including the data in the app itself will be a problem, even if there are no descriptions of the items or special rules with units. The way I created the app was to use .xml files for each army. So if I change the app to be generic as you mention and then read in files from another source (ie. website or file on sd card), this should be good then? I realize that the source could not be affiliated with me directly then.

I believe this is what I'm hearing from people so far...

And another item on testing. I can add a army if I hear that people want to test something in particular. There is one vote for BA, but let me know if you want something else.

baranowito wrote:So it sounds like people are in general agreement that including the data in the app itself will be a problem, even if there are no descriptions of the items or special rules with units. The way I created the app was to use .xml files for each army. So if I change the app to be generic as you mention and then read in files from another source (ie. website or file on sd card), this should be good then? I realize that the source could not be affiliated with me directly then.

I believe this is what I'm hearing from people so far...

You've got it.

All those names (Space Wolves, Eldar, etc) are trademarked by GW and cannot be used without their permission (which you don't have) and the information in their codices (statlines, point values, etc) are all copyrighted by them as well as well.

baranowito wrote:Thanks for the comments so far. Font is easy enough to change and I'll consider that. I don't like the standard Android fonts, but I guess something that is more "blocky" would be better.

As for AB, the users may maintain the lists, but files and updates are so seamlessly integrated into their product that it might as well be a part of the program. I'm not saying that the point is wrong, but that seems like a fine line if that is the case.

Right....but it's not part of the program. Lone Wolf themselves spells this out on their website, that's how they still operate. There is a very fine line, what you have there is on the "I want to get sued" side.

Change the font to Helvetica, Calibri, Tahoma or Century Gothic. I'm partial to Century Gothic, since it's my favourite font and I use it for pretty much everything I can get away with, but the others are just fine for this too, and tend to be more efficient as far as space is concerned.

Make the background a solid colour. The textured background you have now does not help a bit.

I've got an Android. I play Daemons. Sure, I'll test it

im down to be a test subject!

I have an android, and I'd be willing to test it, but not until you change the horrid font.

I'm happy to test it out on my Wildfire. I'd be double happy if it included Guard and Dark Eldar

Huh I'd be willing to test it

I agree wiuth every saying emulate AB's method, it avoids sueing and other legal nastiness. and the ones saying about the font etc. saying that ive got an android and would be more than happy to help out/test/buy this, it'd be great having an army list builder on my (android) mob phone. heres hoping this takes off, your're ahead of the curve here

I've sent out the app to a few people who have contacted me prior to last night. I already made the change on the font and have attached the updated screenshot below. For those that want to test, please send me a private message with your email address and I can send it out.

I have also updated my plans to make the data files separate from the main program (including every codex item, armies, game system and the names of attributes). I also have a good idea doing this to include other game systems since it would just be a matter of creating a new game file. Once the app gets farther along, I will reach out and see who might be willing to help with taking charge of the data files, similar to the AB method.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Sending a PM now!

Curses! You're so responsive.

If only I could find someone to develop a similar app on the apple devices...everyone so far has just made really barren programs and (worst of all) has been terrible about doing any updates on them.

So godspeed with this, and I hope you finally get the inspiration to do an ipad/ipod/iphone version!

yakface wrote:
Curses! You're so responsive.

If only I could find someone to develop a similar app on the apple devices...everyone so far has just made really barren programs and (worst of all) has been terrible about doing any updates on them.

So godspeed with this, and I hope you finally get the inspiration to do an ipad/ipod/iphone version!

There are 2 or 3 in the app store; I can't recall the names or prices but I did a search for warhammer and they came up.

Still not a fan of the font. Seriffs don't help you look professional. Also, the screen looks too cluttered. You might want to help divide the screen up a bit. For example, putting unit headings in bold or something like that.

Fafnir wrote:Change the font to Helvetica, Calibri, Tahoma or Century Gothic. I'm partial to Century Gothic, since it's my favourite font and I use it for pretty much everything I can get away with, but the others are just fine for this too, and tend to be more efficient as far as space is concerned.

Make the background a solid colour. The textured background you have now does not help a bit.

All of this, but I'd say a fixed space font like Courier. Better still, and I'm uncertain of the limitations to do so on Android, but make the font selectable.

Also, crazy thought, but I'd consider reading the EULA for Army Builder to see if you can actually reverse engineer their files to interpret them. That would mean you're just building a viewer and all the content creation is done for you.

Courier's great because all the characters use up the same space, it works great for anything where space is a concern, but I'm not a huge fan of the way it looks.

Fafnir wrote:Courier's great because all the characters use up the same space, it works great for anything where space is a concern, but I'm not a huge fan of the way it looks.

Oh, agreed. Courier is hideous, but it's completely functional. Note in the picture above how the statline doesn't mesh up with the headers above it? That's due to it being a proportional font. Now, you can tabspace, use tables, and stuff like that to overcome that, but the trick to making it look it's cleanest would be a monospace..

To the OP: If you're planning on actually selling this for money, you should implement something to line up the stat lines. Even if you're just handing it out gratis, then you should still consider cleaning it up a bit as a favour to your users.

Please look at this if you are dealing with copyrighted issues for games if the product is created in the US.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

You might be surprised on what you can and can not do for creating game content here in the US.

agnosto wrote:

yakface wrote:
Curses! You're so responsive.

If only I could find someone to develop a similar app on the apple devices...everyone so far has just made really barren programs and (worst of all) has been terrible about doing any updates on them.

So godspeed with this, and I hope you finally get the inspiration to do an ipad/ipod/iphone version!

There are 2 or 3 in the app store; I can't recall the names or prices but I did a search for warhammer and they came up.

Yeah, I've got two of 'em already and they're all substandard.

'iroster' is the best, but the guy never updates it and it has some serious flaws. All the other ones are utterly garbage. One guy even posted here on Dakka and promised it would be getting better soon. I bought his app for like $5 under the promise that it was a WIP and they've NEVER done even a SINGLE update.