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Hello YMDC,

In a recent game, an imperial guard player used the 'Bring It Down' order on a squad with the MoO. The unit successfully received the order and twin-linked against a rhino in LoS of the MoO. The controlling player rolled the stray, and deviated for a total of 2", but the blast marker remained clearly on the rhino. This is where things got strange. The player then said that he wanted to re-roll the stray. This was confusing to me because the target was hit. Apparently, his intent was to catch some nearby squad members under the direct hit blast.

What happens here? Can a twin-linked blast weapon re-roll unless it scores a literal 'hit' on the stray die? Does a 'hit' on the unit count as a 'hit' and stop the twin-linked from occurring, or can the player re-roll for the chance to cover more models with the template?

What's to be done here?

Thanks.

BRB: If the model has the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit and chooses to do so after firing a blast weapon the player must re-roll the scatter dice and the 2d6.

- So he would have to re-roll everything.

- But if he only had to re-roll the scatter dice, then yes, he could choose to re-roll even if he "Hit" the tank.

Master of Ordinance: If a "Hit" is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast will still scatter 2d6 in the direction of the arrow on the "Hit" symbol. If not it scatters 3d6 - If the MoO has line of sight, then he cqn deduct his ballistic skill.

Hope this Helps,

Correct only a "hit"(as in the symbol) on a t-l blast weapon cannot be re-rolled(BRB page 31+30)

Bossbig'un brought up a great point, if that 2" scatter was from a "hit" icon, and only 6" scatter, no reroll would have been allowed. if it was an "Arrow" and only a 6" scatter(with LOS and on 3d6) The IG player was just being stupid, but the whole thing would need re-rolled in either case.

It sounds like the IG [player did not understand how his MotO works.

Yeah... unless you are playing a 2000 pt + "horde" army, then give the MoO a pass. Just my opinion.

BossBig'un wrote:BRB: If the model has the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit and chooses to do so after firing a blast weapon the player must re-roll the scatter dice and the 2d6.

- So he would have to re-roll everything.

Yep, we did that right.

Master of Ordinance: If a "Hit" is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast will still scatter 2d6 in the direction of the arrow on the "Hit" symbol. If not it scatters 3d6 - If the MoO has line of sight, then he cqn deduct his ballistic skill.

We did this right as well.

Kommissar Kel wrote:only a "hit"(as in the symbol) on a t-l blast weapon cannot be re-rolled(BRB page 31+30)

Great. Thank you. This answers my question.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Bossbig'un brought up a great point, if that 2" scatter was from a "hit" icon, and only 6" scatter, no reroll would have been allowed.

Alright. That makes sense and is now clear.

if it was an "Arrow" and only a 6" scatter(with LOS and on 3d6) the whole thing would need re-rolled in either case.

I don't think it needs to be re-rolled. If the MoO had strayed a whole bunch way off the rhino and into a pile of command squad nearby, can't the player choose to NOT re-roll?

Yup.

Kommissar Kel wrote: if it was an "Arrow" and only a 6" scatter(with LOS and on 3d6) The IG player was just being stupid, but the whole thing would need re-rolled in either case.

It sounds like the IG [player did not understand how his MotO works.

This is why you don't drink and post It doesn't even make sense.

Ignore everything after the comma. Replace it with this new sentence:

If the Guard player choose to re-roll; the whole of the scatter-dice would need to be re-rolled, that is the Scatter die itself and the 2-3 d6(depending on the result of the scatter die).

You were correct the dice would not need to be rerolled, and in this case doing so is fairly stupid(unless you are actually trying for a larger scatter). You have full choice on whether or no you wanted to re-roll.

out of curiosity, does it say that they may only reroll "missed" rolls to hit?

It's a little fuzzy, but I'd assume that the MoO would always be able to reroll, even if the scatter die rolled a hit, assuming that the template still deviated.

Not that it really matters, but I'm curious to hear from someone who has a rulebook handy.

Twin-linked only allows re-rolls on misses.

Yeah, but a "hit" on the scatter die for MoO doesn't mean that the template even remotely hit the target.

Surely, I just meant that the rules themselves do not go into more detail than that.

kirsanth wrote:Twin-linked only allows re-rolls on misses.

He targeted the rhino.
He hit the rhino.

I'd say no re-roll.

-Matt

The "hit" symbol signifies a hit(even if it still scatters) only the Arrows are a "miss".

Still hitting the vehicle on a Scatter is not the same as a successful hit, nor is scattering 0 inches.

this is all (poorly) defined in the blast weapon rules.

kirsanth wrote:Twin-linked only allows re-rolls on misses.

Just out of interest, if you had a weapon that had other effects such as rending and was twin-linked, you may wish to re-roll even successful hits.
In this case, the play would have to re-roll everything, as in theory the MoO is meant to be targeting distant Basilisks and therefore may be rapidly giving new co-ordinates as a bigger threat has been identified.

You can play it that way, but it is not allowed by the rules.

alphaomega wrote:

kirsanth wrote:Twin-linked only allows re-rolls on misses.

Just out of interest, if you had a weapon that had other effects such as rending and was twin-linked, you may wish to re-roll even successful hits.
In this case, the play would have to re-roll everything, as in theory the MoO is meant to be targeting distant Basilisks and therefore may be rapidly giving new co-ordinates as a bigger threat has been identified.

Feel free to do that in Friendly games but at tournaments your opponents will request that you follow the actual rules; and they likely will not be as nice about it as we are not(as in they will be even meaner).