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I am very slowly getting back into Warhammer 40k, and I would like to start up with Space Marines. I see tons of BA, SW, and Vanilla lists at my LGS; but I would like to field Black Templars. I know they were one of the first 5th Edition releases, so I was curious if they are still competitive now?

Thanks for your help.

Black Templars were not a 5th Edition release. It is a 4th edition release that is now showing its age. While Black Templars have a few strengths (2x Assault Cannons in 5x Termies, etc.), for the most part the codex falls short of Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Vanilla Marines.

Sadly its true, black templars are not that well endowed when it comes to....competariveness?

You are better off doing a dex juggling DIY army. (today i'm vanilla, but tomorrow I break out the SW list!)

their* competitiveness*

Black Templars came out in 4th edition and are pretty steeped in the time. Their codex has a few tricks (giving the entire army rerolls to hit in close combat for one) but doesn't do so great in today's environment. There are some gimmicks in the army, but for the most part they're wonky. Use Black Templar models and play using regular Space Marine rules, nobody will complain.

Black Templars get the holy hand grenade though! It's one of the main reasons for playing them. Plus a command squad that can put so much hurt on somebody that it isn't even fair: take a Chaplain (either kind), a model with the chapter banner/holy relic, an apothecary, 2 models with meltaguns and 4 more guys, then add in a techmarine who gives you his regular attacks with a power weapon AND his servo harness attacks, then give the full unit furious charge and you have one broken unit with 50+ attacks, furious charge, counter charge, a narthecium that can shrug off a plasma shot and a bunch of pissed off opponents who realized they got schooled by a death star unit of basic marines. I pity the sanguine guard who went against that unit. hehehe

I have to disagree with the previous posters.

Black Templar just got their new FAQ earlier this month, which SIGNIFICANTLY buffs them. Stormshields are now 3++ invul saves. They're 15 points for whomever wants them. ATSKNF is now a 9" movement. Smoke launchers are now 4+ cover instead of being reduced to glancing. The list goes on. Their FAQ brings them up to a 5th edition level, and makes them extremely competitive again.

Dashofpepper wrote:I have to disagree with the previous posters.

Black Templar just got their new FAQ earlier this month, which SIGNIFICANTLY buffs them. Stormshields are now 3++ invul saves. They're 15 points for whomever wants them. ATSKNF is now a 9" movement. Smoke launchers are now 4+ cover instead of being reduced to glancing. The list goes on. Their FAQ brings them up to a 5th edition level, and makes them extremely competitive again.

JESUS H. CHRIST, YOU'RE RIGHT!

Seriously, how the HELL did I miss this? HOW??

*insert manical cackling sounds*

EDIT: Where did you get the 9" movement thingie from though?

Space Marines get 3" Free move when the consolodate.. then their normal 6" move now.

So you fall back...

3" free
6" move
6" charge..

@Dash--I'm a new(ish) player to BT, and SM overall. How is it intended that the Storm Shield is a 3++? All that I see is a price increase for the 4+ version. Sorry for being dense, hah.

MasticatorDeelux wrote:@Dash--I'm a new(ish) player to BT, and SM overall. How is it intended that the Storm Shield is a 3++? All that I see is a price increase for the 4+ version. Sorry for being dense, hah.

The FAQ just recently got updated, and the Storm Shield got errata'd to 3++.

The Assault vehicle rule was updated as well. With the New Faq, Templars are very viable again.

Oh Jesus, missed that part on page two. My bad.

The new FAQ has indeed done wonders for the BTs, it should make the 5 BT players (inc myself) at my LGS very happy.

To the OP I say if you like them go for it, even with the FAQ they won't be the most competitive army out there but they are a lot of fun and surely that is the most important thing.

Everyone has already said it, but BT just got FAQ'ed up to new edition standards (or close enough for me). So they are actually competitive now. Go figure.

And just as I started switching to BA because they weren't that flash. Oh well, I can field 2 smallish marine armies now.

After thinking the update through, I think that, while this undoubtedly will buf the Black Templars and give us atleast a fighting chance, the core issues are still there: expensive transports, no sergeants and simply not as much codex creep as the 5th ed 'dexes.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:After thinking the update through, I think that, while this undoubtedly will buf the Black Templars and give us atleast a fighting chance, the core issues are still there: expensive transports, no sergeants and simply not as much codex creep as the 5th ed 'dexes.

Considering the amount so storm shields you can get in (sword brethren anyone?) and terminators with tank hunters and two cyclone missile launchers I think templars have a lot to go off.

Well, I play Dark Eldar....the ONLY marine codex I can't readily laugh off with the way I run them in Black Templar. And DE *is* the newest codex, meaning there's going to be many more players than you're used to seeing. Blessed Hull itself is worth it. =D

EmilCrane wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:After thinking the update through, I think that, while this undoubtedly will buf the Black Templars and give us atleast a fighting chance, the core issues are still there: expensive transports, no sergeants and simply not as much codex creep as the 5th ed 'dexes.

Considering the amount so storm shields you can get in (sword brethren anyone?) and terminators with tank hunters and two cyclone missile launchers I think templars have a lot to go off.

Sword Brethren with Storm Shields?? Seriously? There's a reason why the Legion of the Damned aren't ever taken, they're just as vulnerable to small arms fire as normal marines. So are Sword Brethren.

While the Cyclone Terminators with tank hunters are an awesome unit, they clock in at more than 260 points per unit. With that kind of cost, you're going to run out of room for troops pretty fast. For just slightly more than one terminator squad with cyclones and tank hunters, you could get 4 land speeder typhoons. While they don't have tank hunters, they pump out twice the amount of missiles each turn, and can't be locken in an assault. IMO the typhoons are the real upgrade to the Templars, not the terminator squads that rival a Land Raider in cost that everyone seems so hyped up about.