Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Coming from a Dark Angel player, this is what I see at a glance of the advantages of C:SM

Thunderfire
Land Speeder Storm
Ironclad Dreadnought
Your venerable dreads are better, though more expensive
Free stuff on Tacs
Vanguard Vets
Scout Bikes
Land Raider Redeemers
A frickload of different HQ's

Cheaper Terminators (yes, 5 pts cheaper with the cyclone)
Cheaper Dreadnoughts
Cheaper and better Bikes
Cheaper Techmarines
Cheaper dakka preds (annialators are the same price)
Cheaper Scouts with free sniper rifles
Cheaper Vindicators

What are you whining about?

I wasn't comparing them to all, one on one DA vs Nilla. Nilla has the advantage overall over DA. You'll find that almost every dex has something better in it, but DA suffer pretty much the same thing in almost every catagory much the same as Nilla.

Sniper rifles are garbage? They're a squad of lascannons against monsterous creatures for cheap plus they rend. I know with bs3 they might not be as good (bs4 but take up an elite slot with DA), but still.

For most of that I was listing things you can do, not necessarily what is the best or most competitive options. I play DA strictly so I have no clue how good most of the stuff in C:SM is, such as the Ironclads. I hear people swear by them in a pod though.

techmarines are meh I agree. I'd rather have terminators in a greenwing list or a dread.

All Fearless Terminators is the Dark Angels's schtick if I recall conversations about last ed correctly. If I'm not mistaken Deathwing are supposed to be the best this side of the Grey Knights so it kinda makes sense...

Wow... you did such a good job debunking that you almost made me get unexcited over my own army's update...

^ Yeah, I like the bikes as well, though I'm hesitant to drop a raider for another terminator group... though both would be able to Deep Strike. hmm. ahh, choices.

scuddman wrote:Well, the army is very very good against classic mech armies. It's not a hard counter, but it's not necessarily an uphill battle either. You can't bubble wrap effectively to stop deepstriking cyclone termies..not really.

And the short range of most melta spam armies combined with deathwing placement + deep strike control means that melta spam armies really struggle to get in against the terminator alpha strike.

I used this type of army pretty often against eldar until Dark Angels/5th edition came out.

What beats lots of termies? Foot armies. Las/plas guys. Plasma cannon devestators. Lasguns. Cheap pieplates..like from a whirlwind or the new eldar spinner. Oblits do a great job.

Those are army types that we haven't seen in a while because of mech spam.

So if this does force many of the older list types to come out, was the simple errata release a bigger balancing factor for 5th edition than the codex releases thus far in your opinion?

The issue with plasma devs is that if the Terminators have a ride they're out of luck. For a several popular armies this seems to be a problem and will need to be addressed with lascannons or a switch to close range melta. My bikes will likely cry against plasma though.

I'm not sold on walking terminators, cyclones or not the AV 14 ride is nice and if played right might be able to avoid unnecessary losses that are critical in a low model count army. Deathwing Assault and getting 2 krak shots into rear or side armor is a definite bonus, but I don't know how much I like the idea of walking slow units across the board with only limited firepower in return. Might take care of mech, but seems to be of much more limited use against horde.

Correct me if I'm incorrect. This is theoryhammer and don't have the experience to back it up.