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I am considering basing my Dark Eldar army around the Sky Serpents, and so naturally, Duke Sliscus would be a must-have. However, I am unsure of how effective he actually is, in special rules and combat.

The Serpent's Bite wounds on a 2+, and on a 5+ ignores armour. Also as a poisoned weapon he may re-roll failed wounds against Geqs. This seems quite good actually, but having not tested Sliscus, i have no idea of how it actually preforms.

The Serpent's Venom - This seems like a cool ability, but again, i might be wrong.

Contraband - Another cool ability to me.

Low Orbit Raid - Save for point's saving, this ability seems near-useless to me. The only difference between this and Retrofire Jets is that my units can disembark on the turn they arrive, but as they can't assualt, that seems tantamount to suicide. I suppose it would be useful for a WWP, where you could deep-strike and then drop a portal.

What are your thoughts? Is he worth the points over a Huskblade Archon?

It really depends on what else is in your army. You sort of have to build a list idea around the special characters in that book. You can't just cherry pick them, insert them into any kind of build and expect results. I definitely see him being useful in an army comprising of units that benefit from combat drugs. Namely, wyches, reavers, hellions, and a second archon with drugs. How that list is shaped is up to you to decide.

So a deep-striking wych/hellion army with a some kabalites would be ideal?

He is imo the tied for the best DE special character along with the Baron, both are fairly cheap and very effective for what they do (Vect is also incredibly powerful but quite expensive). As far as damage output goes comparing him to a Huskblade Archon (who are character hunters) isn't quite right, he is more like an Agoniser Archon (with -1W and a free Blast Pistol). However you aren't really buying him for the assault punch, he is first and foremost a massive force multiplier and imo that by itself makes him more valuable than a choppy Archon. His only real weakness is only having 2 wounds, which does let him down a bit in assault (although as with most DE characters you are going to get smacked in the head with S6+ and ID'd most of the time anyway).

The best way to run him is in a Wych (or Hellion if you take the Baron as well) based army with support from Trueborn/Warriors (at least one unit to get some use from the Poison buff) as Contraband is probably the most powerful of his abilities. Going Wych heavy lets you get the best out of rolling twice on the Drugs chart (to hopefully avoid the really bad ones) and pick whichever one will help you most in any given battle (even the 3D6 run can be helpful if you are facing Guard who you know you can beat in combat anyway).

The poison buff is great, even with the FAQ clearing up what happens when you don't include any Warriors for him to deploy with I don't know why you wouldn't take at least 1 unit. Shard Carbine + Splinter Cannon Trueborn are probably the best place for this, but even putting him with a Dark Lance warrior unit is fine (just have him jump in a Raider turn 1).

Low Orbit Raid is certainly not useless, in a standard mech list with 8+ vehicles you are getting 40 points of free upgrades, and calling it that is a bit of an understatement as being able to disembark when you arrive makes it much more valuable. Even if you don't want to Deep Strike its always nice to have the option. Small Trueborn units with 3-4 Blasters are very effective anti tank units and being able to Deep Strike and disembark afterwards (which is the crucial bit otherwise they couldn't fire until next turn) lets them get around their range issues, DS near terrain and disembark into it if possible but they are cheap enough that you don't really worry about them dying anyway. I've actually found being able to DS very helpful even on Wych and other assault based units. Remember that against a list with any kind of long ranged anti tank threat DE are almost forced to fully reserve if going second as otherwise you lose half your vehicles in the first turn. For assault based units reserving would usually mean they need to move flat out when they arrive to get themselves into assault range for the following turn, but being able to Deep Strike can get you into position just as quickly while still being able to shoot, and with Flickerfields you still get a save as well.

Deep Striking a WWP in is pretty pointless as it won't be down till turn 2 (assuming you get the unit carrying the portal in when you want it, which is 50/50) which means a chunk of your army is already going to be coming off the board edge before it arrives.

Thanks Powerguy, i always thought you could shoot from a deep striking vehicle, apparently not. I think Sliscus will definately be included.

Exor wrote:Thanks Powerguy, i always thought you could shoot from a deep striking vehicle, apparently not. I think Sliscus will definately be included.

The reason is deepstriking makes you move at cruising speed. Cruising speed is ok for fast vehicles to fire, but not the guys inside.

You can disembark and then shoot, but it will leave you vulnerable to return fire.

People use him for 2 reasons:

1: Deepstrice lance MSU. Here you deepstrike moastly everything. Elite slott is 4 trueborn with blasters in a raider. Troops are 5 warriors with a blaster in a raider. Fast Attack are Scourges with lances. Heavy suport is some sort of flying aircraft with lances. On the regular retrofier engines you cannot shoot with any of the troop lances, with the duke you can, netting you some 30+ more lance shots.

start on one side of the table and work your way to the other side. A bit lame vs IG astropaths.

2: Get him in a MASSIVE wytch army to get the combat drugs you moast want (pain token anyone?).

Or you can do one of both. He is also very good for what he does since the night shield is so good, and he has good rules. Not mandatory but he opens up some good builds.

Niiai wrote:
On the regular retrofier engines you cannot shoot with any of the troop lances, with the duke you can, netting you some 30+ more lance shots.

I believe that would be incorrect. Deepstriking is deepstriking and the transport counts as moving at cruising speed, therefore, troops that remain embarked can't fire. The Duke's special rule doesn't change that, it just allows all ravagers, raiders, and venoms the ability to deepstrike. Like I said previously, the only way for troops to fire is to disembark first. No troops with heavy weapons can fire after deepstriking b/c they count as moving regardless if embarked or disembarked.

ThePhish wrote:

Niiai wrote:
On the regular retrofier engines you cannot shoot with any of the troop lances, with the duke you can, netting you some 30+ more lance shots.

I believe that would be incorrect. Deepstriking is deepstriking and the transport counts as moving at cruising speed, therefore, troops that remain embarked can't fire. The Duke's special rule doesn't change that, it just allows all ravagers, raiders, and venoms the ability to deepstrike. Like I said previously, the only way for troops to fire is to disembark first. No troops with heavy weapons can fire after deepstriking b/c they count as moving regardless if embarked or disembarked.

First of all he is disembarking his troops, retrofire jets specifically state you cannot which is why the duke is viable for this kamikaze tactic. He's referring to the blasters as "lance shots", so yes you can net 30+ (12 blasters and 3 dark lances from trueborn in raiders + 9 from ravagers + 6 blasters and 6 dark lances from 6 MSU of warriors in raiders = 36). However any non mechanized army would slaughter this force, and even a mechanized if you roll badly.

Powerguy wrote:Low Orbit Raid is certainly not useless, in a standard mech list with 8+ vehicles you are getting 40 points of free upgrades, and calling it that is a bit of an understatement as being able to disembark when you arrive makes it much more valuable. Even if you don't want to Deep Strike its always nice to have the option. Small Trueborn units with 3-4 Blasters are very effective anti tank units and being able to Deep Strike and disembark afterwards (which is the crucial bit otherwise they couldn't fire until next turn) lets them get around their range issues, DS near terrain and disembark into it if possible but they are cheap enough that you don't really worry about them dying anyway.

Alright, I wanted to chime in here. I see this point raised time and again as a benefit of taking the Duke.

1. Deep-striking is *not* a good idea with your raiders / venoms. You're going to scatter 2/3 of the time, opening yourself up to mishaps, and a competent player is going to use the first and potentially the second turn as well to *significantly* decrease the surface area on the board available for you to deep-strike on. Deep striking 4-5 models is one thing, but trying to find a clear footprint for a vehicle to land, AND probably scatter without mishaping is a miraculous endeavor, and extremely risky.

2. Deep-striking trueborn are entirely unnecessary. They have an 18" range on their blasters. On turn one, you can be deployed on your line, move up 12" in your raider/venom, axis pivot to gain 3", disembark 2" with a 1" base, and have 18" of reach. That's a 36" reach. If you're on your line for pitched battle, that means you can range the back table edge. In spearhead, you're in easy range of anything near the deployment zone, and anything that your opponent deploys near their corner (the 48"+ range) you're going to be zooming forward to dominate the board anyway and not being able to shoot, and in DoW, you should be moving flat out the first turn anyway to gain cover saves to multiply with the enemy having to deal with nightfight to extend your survivability.

3. Deploying and moving normally vs. deep-striking those trueborn....when you deploy them and move them on your own instead of trusting to chance, you get to decide where they go - hopefully into cover. On a gameboard, its a regular sight for my vehicles to pull up next to cover and drop their payload into it. And if they can't do that, I'll angle my vehicle so that the vehicle gives cover to my trueborn.

4. And worst of all - a deep-striking DE army is going to get delivered piecemeal over subsequent turns. The BIGGEST STRENGTH of Dark Eldar is that units are cheap. Cheap means you can take more of them, meaning that you can overwhelm an enemy with threats and targets when they can't shoot at them all. That's why we're naturally weak against Mech IG - they have as many guns able to shoot at as many targets as we do - they *can* address all the threats at once. By reserving and deep-striking, you're not only placing yourself disadvantageously as I've explained above, but you're also willfully negating the biggest advantage you have - numerical threat superiority. Instead of 12 raider/venom/ravagers for an enemy to contend with, they only have to deal with six this turn. That's not so bad. I can't remember ever losing a game to a deep-striking army, daemons or otherwise. Anytime you're going to let my full army take on a piece of your army - where you're letting me take you apart piecemeal, you're in trouble.

The only time I reserve my army is when I am going second against an opponent who has enough firepower in their army to make me seriously hurt on the first turn should I deploy on the table. And then I reserve resentfully, and only after carefully examining the board for cover options and gauging how much damage I would take on that first turn.

I think focusing any army around the premise of deep-striking or reserves is a mistake; and doubly true for Dark Eldar.

Got to agree with Dash.

Deepstriking your entire army isn't that great, even when you have SM type rules (death wing assault, drop pod assault), which DE do not have. Deep striking a couple of units? Depends on what you are using, but often just fine especially if the squad is a suicide unit or an objective holding one. But as an overall strategy, not the greatest.

I personally prefer some webway units over deepstriking raiders. Deepstriking leaves you pretty easy to take out. Don't always land where you want, have to disembark if you want to shoot with the guys inside (getting out is dangerous, you can't even move far enough away to avoid the likely exploding raider), and can't assault (thus limiting the types of units that you would take).

The duke is still a great character, as he gives you the option of DS, isn't bad in CC (not great, but holds his own) the splinter weapon upgrade for 1 squad is nice and the combat drug buff is pretty huge depending on the army.