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So I'm assembling Pedro Kantor's post-Rynn's World Disaster Crimson Fists and have come across a quandry: when should various units be equipped with a plasma pistol. Some units seem pretty cut and dry, for example, a pistol for Devestators appears to be a waste since the sarge isn't likely to be close enough to use it and if he is it's not going to make that big of a difference. Others like HQ's and assault squads are a little more in the air for me. Seems like a nice selection for a libby, if he didn't already have some pretty awesome psychic shooting attacks, that is.

Before I start getting magnet crazy and having the entire range of options available for each sarge and HQ, I figured I'd better check with the experts. Help a fellow dakkanaut out...

Not being an SM player, I'll still give the best advice I can from my own experience with IG and SoB, as well as facing plenty of SM.

As you said with Devastator Squads, those Sgts should not be taking pistols. Assault squads, IMO, have a few good options to take them. If running a Sgt with PF, I'd go for a Combi weapon to complement the squad's SWs. With a PW, a PP is a maybe depending on the role of the squad and what else it is bringing to the table. Usually a bolt pistol is fine with a PW. Really depends on if you have the points to spend or not more so than not.

I would possibly consider taking them on Tac Sgts if they are going to be more front lines and possible get some use of the PP there. I don't think that would be a very popular choice, however, depending on how you personally feel about the use of Tac Marines. Same goes for how to equip Tac Sgts, bolter, Combi weapon, or PW/PF and/or pistol. Which has been discussed several times in other threads.

On HQs once again it comes to what other equipment your HQ has and what role it will play. I would take a PP on a PW or even with a PF if I had no other really good ranged shooting in my HQ. Otherwise matching PP with PW and PF with Combi weapon is usually the most efficient use of points and maximizing attacks, effectiveness, ect.

Gavin Thorne wrote:So I'm assembling Pedro Kantor's post-Rynn's World Disaster Crimson Fists and have come across a quandry: when should various units be equipped with a plasma pistol. Some units seem pretty cut and dry, for example, a pistol for Devestators appears to be a waste since the sarge isn't likely to be close enough to use it and if he is it's not going to make that big of a difference. Others like HQ's and assault squads are a little more in the air for me. Seems like a nice selection for a libby, if he didn't already have some pretty awesome psychic shooting attacks, that is.

Before I start getting magnet crazy and having the entire range of options available for each sarge and HQ, I figured I'd better check with the experts. Help a fellow dakkanaut out...

Plasma pistols are too expensive. 15 points for a weapon that can kill you, is only meh against tanks, and relies on your opponent being in the open to even kill 1 infantry model. A better sarge upgrade is a combi weapon, any type is more useful than the plasma pistol.

I run a plasma pistol on my libby sometimes since it covers remaining points, and it is modeled. GW likes to put Plasma pistols on everything and I don't like hacking up metal models.

Crimson Fists already have a high special weapons to model count with sternguard, you don't need to soak even more points into mediocre wargear. It would be better to bulk up both fluff and game wise with vehicles (low manpower, tanks and stuff are force multipliers).

For that 15 points spend on a plasma pistol I'd rather have a powerweapon.

If in the future plasma pistols were to count as powerweapons in cc I could see paying around 20ish points for one. But w/ gets hot I'm not sure I'd do it even then.

If you are running a plasma tactical squad then the plasma pistol can be worth it due to synergy between the 2 guns.

Personally, I think plasma pistols are a complete waste and rarely ever worth getting.

First off it gives a chance to kill the wielder. Second, it's not a cheap upgrade that you can count on using.

Plasma Pistols blow. The only time you ever want them in your army is when you're getting them for free with a Special Character.

I agree, plasma pistols are borderline useless. 15 points for a weapon thats 12" and could kill you? Its a single shot weapon that won't instakill T4 models. Weak, very weak. I would rather get a power weapon.

Cato Sicarius. Thats the only time I'd take one.

Beause he has FNP. I'm super paranoid about Gets Hot! rolls, so I'd only ever take them on a model that has FNP. Which in the standard 'dex, means the Command Squad, and even then, probably not, because there are units that would fill the role better.

I'd say they might be more worth it in C:BA, since they can get so much FNP so easilly, but even then, I'd usually rather have the Infernus pistol instead.

I always find it amusing that people say PP are useless or aren't worth their points at 15 a pop. Perhaps it is just coming from the non-MEQ armies I play, but I love Plasma Pistols. They allow many of my models access to higher strength weaponry. It is also quite amusing to me that IMO MEQ players seem worried the most about "Gets Hot!" despite having some of the best saves against taking that wound.

On my IG I like Plasma Pistols that I can take on several Sgts and Officers that either works well with what the squad is equipped with or just to allow me to just be able to deal a wound to high T or pen low-mid AV. For IG S 7 shots are not bad things, and this is with generally a 5+ save against "Gets Hot!"

Now, my SoB, like MEQs, can take Combi weapons, so I generally prefer to take those over the PP only because have a CCW or PW with a PP benefits my SoB much less than it does a MEQ Sgt or an IG Sgt. And if I could take a PF with the Combi weapon, I would in a heartbeat.

As for MEQs though, I don't see where the concern is. Unless you are also taking a PF for the S, then taking a PP and PW sounds like a damn good idea to me with a 3+ armor save. So what if a PP can't ID T4? Just like with IG, I like that extra S 7 hit at range on that MC or RA or SA of that vehicle, which I can still assault after firing.

I see Plasma Pistols as a 15 point investment that has a nominal chance of killing the wielder (even less so with 3+ armor) that has great potential to earn way more than its own points back, put that extra wound on a model, or stop that vehicle.

Every game sorry. Plasma is the best ever.

Asherian Command wrote:Every game sorry. Plasma is the best ever.

YES^^^

The plasma pistol gives you a great pre-assault shot and an extra attack during the assault, goes great with power weapons, which are also awesome.

Plus, it can easily break open vehicle's side or rear armor. They are also a great boost for combat squads that are carrying only one special weapon.

Many people have probably not tried it.

I'm currently experimenting with a Wolf Scout "suicide squad". It is a 5 model unit with a plasmagun and 2 plasma pistols, held in reserve to hopefully come in the back lines and light up rear armor with plasma before killing themselves/getting killed by the enemy.

I'm not so sure how well it will turn out in execution, but it will be fun regardless.

rdlb wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Every game sorry. Plasma is the best ever.

YES^^^

The plasma pistol gives you a great pre-assault shot and an extra attack during the assault, goes great with power weapons, which are also awesome.

Plus, it can easily break open vehicle's side or rear armor. They are also a great boost for combat squads that are carrying only one special weapon.

People who deride it have probably not tried it. Or maybe there is only one correct way to play each codex...

I'm usually against even taking pre-assault shots, since now a days most people have their units deep in terrain, or barely in range of my assault.

Those people would cheerfully be removing large amounts of models just so that I cannot be in assault range.

It is also quite amusing to me that IMO MEQ players seem worried the most about "Gets Hot!" despite having some of the best saves against taking that wound.

That is because you're viewing it from a IG viewpoint.
MEQ unlike IG don't the chance to take 3 or 4 plasma guns everytime they take a low-points infantry squad. And even then, if you're losing a mode, you're losing a very low points model, whereas in a Marine army, every model really does count.

Here's another way to view it in the same way. Taking a Sergeant with a Plasma Pistol and a Power Weapon/Fist means that if he kills himself, then you're losing another 15 or 25 points worth of a much more important weapon.

What saves would apply? its ap2 so doesn't that mean that anytime you roll a 1, that model takes a wound if he doesn't have an invulnerable save?

CoI wrote:What saves would apply? its ap2 so doesn't that mean that anytime you roll a 1, that model takes a wound if he doesn't have an invulnerable save?

If you role a 1 you just take an armor save.

Read the Gets Hot! rule in the rulebook.

CoI wrote:What saves would apply? its ap2 so doesn't that mean that anytime you roll a 1, that model takes a wound if he doesn't have an invulnerable save?

Armor or Invul, reread the "Gets Hot!" rules on I want to say page 35 or 36 or the BRB. Normal saves, except for cover, are allowed for "Gets Hot!" wounds as it says so in the rules for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Page 31, it moved on me I swear! Anyway, yeah normal saves apply.

hmm... i read that wrong. that actually makes plasma weapons viable for me. well, almost. one of the reasons i think i'm going to like blood claws is that with that many dice rolled, even with my abominable dice luck i'm sure to kill _something_ at least
I swear there's chaos cultists chanting dark prayers over my dice when i'm not looking >: :(

For me the big killer with plasma pistols is how much use you're likely to get out of them. We're talking one, maybe two shots per game depending on who you put it on and what you do with them.

The gets hot rule never really bothered me at all. It just seems like a bad deal at 15pts each, even without considering it.

Indeed Gets hot kills a sarge once in every 18th shot and is not the reason you shouldnt take a PP. The reason you shouldnt take a PP is that it sucks for how much it costs. Its overcosted by mabye 10 pts.

its never worth it for the sarge, a pw or pfist is better and if either is taken with the pistol the guy becomes too expensive to risk get hot on a 1 wound model.

Hq is debateable because they are usually bs5 multi wound models.

I'm using a plasma pistol right now.