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Playing around with some of the possibilities of the FAQ'd up Black Templars, I see that giving Machine Spirit to a Vindicator allows it to move its full 12" and fire the Demolisher Cannon, and allows it to shoot the Demo Cannon even if it is stunned or shaken. And, for just 5 points more, Extra Armor allows it to move 12" and shoot even if it is Shaken or Stunned.

Ok, so it costs 160 points to do this (Vindy + Machine Spirit + EA), but take two and it's really scary.

My idea is to take 2 Vindicators, PLUS two Land Raider Crusaders taking Terminators, rushing it all forward towards the enemy (the Vindy's on the inside of the 2 Crusaders for flank protection).......

The Vindicator has always been deemed too fragile due to its priority as a target, but taking two, and rushing them adjacent to two Terminator-carrying Crusaders, what will the opponent target then?


Is this a good combination, or should I keep on looking????

I tried the Vindicator (First one, then two, then three) and I am not a big fan. Even if you get within 24" without immobilised or weapon destroyed, the damage on the Demolisher cannon is less then stellar with 5th ed cover. It has its uses (deny FnP, instakilling T5 and lower) but I personally would just take triple-las predators because they are cheaper for you.

The vindicators is not fragile, it is just that one always scatters of target and your oponent usualy ignore it after stunning it for the turn. 3 like that just sounds crazy scary. If you now had something that was good against MC's and for opening transports eraly on you would have a scary army!

Niiai wrote:The vindicators is not fragile, it is just that one always scatters of target and your oponent usualy ignore it after stunning it for the turn. 3 like that just sounds crazy scary. If you now had something that was good against MC's and for opening transports eraly on you would have a scary army!

In paper it isnt, but in practice it is. Its short range means its side armor will fall prey to long range AT fire.

Normally, Id say Vindicators are bad, but thanks to POTMS ignoring Shaken and Stun, Id say that BT Vindis are awesome. I just think that going out of your way and getting 2 LRs to support them is absurd. They are good on their own. Be mindful that, they are in no way cost efficient. 160 points is still ugly for a tank that has virtual armor of AV11 and has a static range of 24.

This update essentially gives Black Templars Daemonically possessed Fast Vindicators. This is ALWAYS a good buy.

extrenm(54) wrote:This update essentially gives Black Templars Daemonically possessed Fast Vindicators. This is ALWAYS a good buy.

This. The BT Vindicator is awesome.

L. Wrex

Isn't the blast from the vindicator ordnance...and therefore it ignores cover...right?

i used to think that, but thats Barrage your thinking of... i think

Shenra wrote:Isn't the blast from the vindicator ordnance...and therefore it ignores cover...right?

Nope, ordnance barrage ignores intervening cover, but that's it. And the Demolisher Cannon is "only" ordnance blast...

@Yuber: The list I am building will include two LR Crusaders, so that combined with two PoTMS Vindicators sounds like it would be a good mix. 12" move, the Crusaders fire multimeltas to crack transports, the Vindicators shoot ordnance at what spills out....dead.

I am also thinking of including another over-looked build that I like, the Venerable Dreadnought. For 160 points the Dread gets Venerable status, TL-Lascannon, Tank Hunter ability (the TL-Lascannon being Str10 vs vehicles, and the DCCW essentially being Str11 vs vehicles (I know technically thats not true), and extra armor. This would fill my 3rd elite slot.

In a vacuum/ on paper at least that sounds like a viable tactic, I say go for it!
I'd consider some Speeders instead of the Ven Dread to try and 'herd' any enemies into the path of the Vindicator mind...

However, my biggest concern for this tactic is a distinct lack of troops...

davidgr33n wrote:@Yuber: The list I am building will include two LR Crusaders, so that combined with two PoTMS Vindicators sounds like it would be a good mix. 12" move, the Crusaders fire multimeltas to crack transports, the Vindicators shoot ordnance at what spills out....dead.

I am also thinking of including another over-looked build that I like, the Venerable Dreadnought. For 160 points the Dread gets Venerable status, TL-Lascannon, Tank Hunter ability (the TL-Lascannon being Str10 vs vehicles, and the DCCW essentially being Str11 vs vehicles (I know technically thats not true), and extra armor. This would fill my 3rd elite slot.

If it's a support dread, you probably want to run TL-Las and ML as that way you'll have a TL S10 shot, and a S9 shot. Ugly! Plus its role will be more definite: Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized results don't totally bone you.

As for PotMS Vindicators...meh. Very expensive.

davidgr33n wrote:@Yuber: The list I am building will include two LR Crusaders, so that combined with two PoTMS Vindicators sounds like it would be a good mix. 12" move, the Crusaders fire multimeltas to crack transports, the Vindicators shoot ordnance at what spills out....dead.

I am also thinking of including another over-looked build that I like, the Venerable Dreadnought. For 160 points the Dread gets Venerable status, TL-Lascannon, Tank Hunter ability (the TL-Lascannon being Str10 vs vehicles, and the DCCW essentially being Str11 vs vehicles (I know technically thats not true), and extra armor. This would fill my 3rd elite slot.

If your building an army around the LR, its good then. Just not the other way around. As for the 160 points for Getting a Ven dread with tank hunters, wont it be better to just bring a Pred Annihilator? I believe 3 str 9 ap 2 are better than 1 str 10 twin linked shot. Plus its cheaper and tougher.

Thinking on the "Fear Factor" of a FAST Vindicator that ignores both Shaken and Stunned results, I am seriously considering a list comprising 3 PoTMS Vindis alongside 2 Land Raider Crusaders carrying Assault Terminators.

Sure for the same cost I could get about 7 Typhoon Speeders, but with the Missile Launcher metagame, they dont last long in my experience. The Missile Launchers wont waste their time shooting at the Crusaders, they'll just target the Speeders and let meltas handle the Crusaders. AV13 fronts on the Vindis are a lot tougher for MLs to crack. Triple-las Preds are cheaper, sure, but move them at all, and you can only fire one weapon; add PoTMS and now you are over the 160 point cost of the PoTMS Vindi. Dreads are cool, but move only 6" if you wanna shoot, have only an AV12, and dont have the PoTMS option.

For Crusader support I dont know what other viable options there are, but I like the idea of 2 Crusaders and 3 Vindis rushing 12" and firing their guns, with 10 Assault Terminators at the ready. The Vindicators will sandwich between the Crusaders so their flanks cant be targeted.

I think this setup gives me a rock-paper-scissors attack....

Vindicators work well in shooty armies. STR 10 large blast means it's hard to scatter off a LR, and thats your best bet of cracking open that LR monolith at 24"
If your playing an 'in your face' army, they are not as good as they have a nasty habit of scattering on top of you.

So the answer is not a simple one, as army comp/strategy are very important factors.
Now, the ability to move 12 and fire 24 is awesome, as it gives you a 36 range of effect, which is very happy.