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So lets start off by listing the contents of each box and the price.

BA Battleforce

10 man tactical squad
5 man assault squad
5 man death company
1 rhino

Price: $100 (USD)

If not bundled.. (Going in order I listed)

37.25 + 29.75 + 33 + 33 = 133

So you save $33

C:SM Battleforce

10 man tactical squad
5 man combat squad
5 man assault squad
5 man scout squad
1 rhino

Price: $90

If not bundled..

37.25 + 22.50 + 29.75 + 22.50 + 33 = $145

You save $55

Huge difference in savings huh?

So lets say you buy a scout squad and combat squad boxes seperately and add them to the BA BF. 22.50+22.50 = 43.00. Your savings covered 33 of it so you shelled out $10 more.
$100 + 43 = $143


So lets say you buy a death company box with your C:SM BF. It is $33. Your savings covered all of it so you still have $22 saved.
$90 + 33 = $123

_______________-

So lets talk about how desirable some units are in the box, mainly I'm gonna talk about the scouts, but you can talk about whatever.

So I think people would agree that you don't want too many scouts in your collection but it is nice to at least have a 5 man squad or two laying around.

I think if one is starting blood angels, they might as well buy C:SM battleforce and a death company box. The models in those boxes are gonna be needed by newbies.

Where I think the BA battleforce is desirable is when a person is wanting to expand blood angels and doesn't want scouts/combat squad box. Lets face it, scouts are not really needed in a collection past ten and the combat squad box doesn't give you any special weapons. So all in all people with a lets say 2000 ptish collection will probably benefit more by purchasing the BA battleforce.

I feel I could have improved my reasoning but I think this post has a valid point and that many can see it, but I am leaving for college soon. Don't take this sample of my work as a representative piece that can indicate my future writing, because I'm only going to just a community college lol!

So in summary: C:SM BF = for beginners. BA BF = People expanding their already existing force.

Also: why the hell would you want to pay more for blood angels? THEY AIN'T NO MATCH FOR KHORNE BEZERKERS!
*ahem*... sorry about that....

Ahem to me but Death Company have FNP, Furious Charge, Fearless, Relentless, and options for 20pts. Ahem, but Khorne Bezerkers are 21pts.

phantommaster wrote:Ahem to me but Death Company have FNP, Furious Charge, Fearless, Relentless, and options for 20pts. Ahem, but Khorne Bezerkers are 21pts.

Khorne Berzerkers can score and aren't completely balls-crazy (at least on table-top ). Oh, and they're that good in a 4th edition Codex.

Zerkers have Furious charge too, and +1 WS, along with being controllable. And were not subject to the power creep (meaning their points might drop below that of DC).

Back on topic: The BA battleforce is more of "SM battleforce with DC company and less junk". At least the SW stuff had mostly SW models.

I love how my thread was hi-jacked to Khorne Berserkers vs Death Company

This community (if you call it that) never ceases to amaze me! lol!

I'd say the whole point of a Battleforce is for people beginning and the BA Battleforce is no different IMHO.

Good, well reasoned post though. It may change across borders mind...

The only thing I'd change about your money value is the Combat Squad. The Combat Squad is one of the worst monetary values available, giving you half a tactical squad with no upgrade sprue. However, with the Blood Angels battleforce you will probably have enough bits from the Death Company box to kit out your sergeants, and maybe even other guys in the tactical and assault squads.

Theoretically you can make them all into DC with the bitz there are, or 10 Assault DCs and a Tact squad in Rhino.

Again, it's a problem of utility.

These are all units that don't mesh well together. Either you're going to go all DoA or all mech; you generally don't see hybrid lists. Even with the savings, I don't see myself buying it.

Valhallan42nd wrote:Again, it's a problem of utility.

These are all units that don't mesh well together. Either you're going to go all DoA or all mech; you generally don't see hybrid lists. Even with the savings, I don't see myself buying it.

Yes, it is kind of a bummer when it comes to them meshing.

C:SM you can put the 10 man tac squad in the rhino and run the assault marines behind them but then you have that out of place combat squad (5 marines). 5 dudes running around with bolters, bleh. Scouts can infiltrate so they have a use.

BA you can again run a jump pack (DC or normal) squad behind the rhino but the other squad is left to jump from cover to cover or deepstrike.

Edit:

I will say this about the combat squad, they are useful if you are testing out special weapons, you can arm the 10 man with a flamer and rocket launcher while you can use the spare marines to hold the meltagun, special CCW, plasmagun.

Its not like magic where if one wants to test something, they can switch a few cards. 40k, it is desirable to have a variety in the equipment of your collection of models. Sure, one can proxy, but if given the option not to, why not take it? Heck, I even have a few plasma gunners lying around and I rarely use them in games.

We don't get a choice in what comes in the C:SM battleforce and that combat squad is out of place, but for a new person, a few extra marines lying around is never a bad thing.

Valhallan42nd wrote:Again, it's a problem of utility.

These are all units that don't mesh well together. Either you're going to go all DoA or all mech; you generally don't see hybrid lists. Even with the savings, I don't see myself buying it.

I think the problem here is the almost assumption that everyone plays competitively, which simply isn't the case. The great thing about the BA Codex (which I'm otherwise happy to criticise!) is the variety of builds it allows.

Just Dave wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:Again, it's a problem of utility.

These are all units that don't mesh well together. Either you're going to go all DoA or all mech; you generally don't see hybrid lists. Even with the savings, I don't see myself buying it.

I think the problem here is the almost assumption that everyone plays competitively, which simply isn't the case. The great thing about the BA Codex (which I'm otherwise happy to criticise!) is the variety of builds it allows.

I'm not talking about its utility for a casual player (I have tac squads for my Flesh Tearers, even!), I was talking about it from the perspective of "is it useful for a competitive player?" If you were building two different blood angel armies at once, yes. Otherwise, not so much.

Casual players might find some utility in this. A free rhino is a free rhino.

Just Dave wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:Again, it's a problem of utility.

These are all units that don't mesh well together. Either you're going to go all DoA or all mech; you generally don't see hybrid lists. Even with the savings, I don't see myself buying it.

I think the problem here is the almost assumption that everyone plays competitively, which simply isn't the case. The great thing about the BA Codex (which I'm otherwise happy to criticise!) is the variety of builds it allows.

+1

I've mentioned it before but that is something that is commonly done. Some people enjoy having one of every time of unit a codex can have then mixing and matching their army lists for a new variety every game. In this case I once again will say that the box is a good deal. The argument of the C:SM kit is good in that it almost gives the same load out for cheaper, however lets not overlook the amazing kit that is the Death Company Box and its posibilites to gear out the whole Battle Force in blood drop bits. That is assuming that the DC that come in the BattleForce are identicle to the standalone $33 dollar box.

The BA battleforce is the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen

They couldn't give you a baal predator instead of a gakky rhino? If you're using assault guys, why the gak would you even think of rhinos? The best units in the codex are jump infantry!

Seriously, I'll still argue that the CSM battleforce is the best bang for your buck:

Rhino, 15 marines, possessed, berserkers
33+35+25+25+25(roughly, since you get 2/3 the berserkers)=143$

Battleforce- 90$

You save 53$ But of course, you're left with an incomplete berserker unit, worthless possessed marines, and five random guys (that could be used for plague marines, I guess).... So really, you're paying 20 bucks for a bunch of bits that are great

Samus_aran115 wrote:The BA battleforce is the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen

They couldn't give you a baal predator instead of a gakky rhino? If you're using assault guys, why the gak would you even think of rhinos? The best units in the codex are jump infantry!

Seriously, I'll still argue that the CSM battleforce is the best bang for your buck:

Rhino, 15 marines, possessed, berserkers
33+35+25+25+25(roughly, since you get 2/3 the berserkers)=143$

Battleforce- 90$

You save 53$ But of course, you're left with an incomplete berserker unit, worthless possessed marines, and five random guys (that could be used for plague marines, I guess).... So really, you're paying 20 bucks for a bunch of bits that are great

I can't recall any Battleforce coming with something possessing a stat-line or Heavy Support choice like the Baal since the Tyranid Carnifex battleforce. I can understand BA players desiring something better than Tacs/Rhinos (which still aren't a BAD unit), but to want something akin to a Baal is too much.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I know if I played Blood Angels I'd use a Tactical Squad or 2. They're reliable, scoring and thematic. Ultimately they're not a GOOD choice, but they're not bad and they are the heart of almost all Space Marine chapters.

Beserkers actually come in their 'magic' number and possessed are useful for conversions. It's not perfect but as you said, it's the best out there, except Necrons IMHO.

BA should have Tacticals. They always have.

All Assault is an option that they excel at, but that isn't their schtick.

As I see it you get 3 good Troop choices and a transport in that box.

Raven Guard are the All Assault all the time guys.

Yeah, really. The necron one is quite literally an army in a box, except for a momlith and a lord with an orb

Oh, trust me, I was more than happy to get those wicked possessed heads I'm not complaining about it at all, since I can't really think of anything better to put in it

I find the Combat Squad in the CSM box useful for adding to a Dev box.

(I think the hijack was some confusion over C:SM and CSM)

More to your point, I completely agree. The vanilla SM battleforce is not very glitzy, but it gives you good bang for your buck and would be functional for a BA starting player. Given that most BA lists I see don't even use DC, the only compelling reason I could see for getting the BA battleforce instead of the vanilla SM one is if you built it as a blinged-up 10 man assault squad by kitbashing the assaults + DC together.

As a player with a fledgling BA army, I was disappointed, and doubt I'll be buying one.

Truthfully I'm somewhat glad that the battle Force included the Death Company, as the local FLGS sells open box items from battle forces at a bigger discount. At least this means that the cost of DC will go down now at that place.