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Hey dakka, im planning on adding TWC to my list what is the best way to equip 4 TWC ? also what are some tactics I should keep in mind when playing them

Wulfenone wrote:
Hey dakka, im planning on adding TWC to my list what is the best way to equip 4 TWC ? also what are some tactics I should keep in mind when playing them

Do you want them cheap? Or expensive?

Cheap would be:

One with TH
One with SS
One with MB
One naked

Expensive:

One with TH/SS
One with SS
One with SS/MB
One naked

If you take them, make sure you take a Wolf Lord on a tw...

I have 350 points to play around with for TWC

1) ALWAYS take a Powerfist (maybe a Thunder Hammer, but I feel they are 5 points wasted, but look cooler).

Thunderwolf PF are S10! You can punch and kill a lot of stuff with that. Plus you get a lot of attacks as well, (5 on the charge)


2) Wound Abuse, outfit each wolf rider differently.

Since the unit has multiple wounds per model and T5, if you can allocate wounds to differently equipped models, you can save some of your wolves for later. You will have 2 wolves with 1 wound lost, instead of one whole wolf dead. A lot of people will hate for this, as they see it as an overpowered rule exploit, but they are not the only unit (Ork Nobs especially) who take advantage of it.

3) Storm Shields, how many do you want?

I would recommend at least 1 in the unit, (for wound abuse and some protection against shooting). Remember, any model with a storm shield looses an attack. You can give all of your wolves a SS if you want, but I am not sold it. The 3++ save only helps if you fighting a LOT of power weapons, but you deal less damage in return. T5 protects you from regular power weapons, and S8 PF do not instant death you, so you are already have some protection against power attacks. Also, the SS are expensive and may not be worth it if you are fighting a unit with a lot of regular attacks, but limited/no power attacks.

My suggestion is 4 Riders, 1 PF, 1 SS, 1 Melta bomb, 1 Regular. This clocks in at 255 points, and it can fight really well and is not too expensive.

Well with 350 Pts, I would bring 5.

Generally with TH, SS, MB, PP, Regular. Comes in around 330 Pts I believe.

But if 4 is your goal, then...

TH, SS, MB, PP this should run around 280ish.

I only take the PP if you have so many points left over, if not it can be swapped to a regular BP/CCW or Bolter for wound allocation.

My TWC always come in groups of 3.
TWC Powerfist Storm Shield
TWC Storm Shield Melta Bomb
TWC Storm Shield

I would assume you are going to run a Lord on TWM with the squad. If not then I would add a 4th TWC. TBH I never run TWC without a Lord on TWM.

What about wolf claws? I feel like choosing whether you want to reroll hits or wounds could be really beneficial in a take-all-comers list that doesn't know what it's going to be fighting. But then, I don't actually know what I'm talking about.

Wolfclaw is a powerweapon and I think its kind of pointless maybe? you do have rending ...

Wolf Lord is not a necessity, also generally to arm a Wolf Lord properly he ends up running as much as the TWC squad is to begin with. I have never run a Lord with my TWC, then again I never play over 1500 pts really.

MadMaverick76 wrote:Wolf Lord is not a necessity, also generally to arm a Wolf Lord properly he ends up running as much as the TWC squad is to begin with. I have never run a Lord with my TWC, then again I never play over 1500 pts really.

Must not run into to many BA players...

MadMaverick76 wrote:Wolf Lord is not a necessity, also generally to arm a Wolf Lord properly he ends up running as much as the TWC squad is to begin with. I have never run a Lord with my TWC, then again I never play over 1500 pts really.

Wolf lords are a necessity. They are the ones doing the actual killing.

You need Ld 10, and TWC are just ablative wounds for him. Never give more than 1 SS to a TWC Squad.

Should TWC run in smaller groups or should I run them with 4 and stick the Lord in behind them for the counter attack? Would you guys have some insight on how to maneuver them on the table top? last time I charged into 30 boys with 4x TWC yes I killed a few i think 15 or so... Horrible rolls on my part but after 3rd round of combat the TWC were finished off. Forgot to mention my equipment selection was horrible and couldnt properly allowcate wounds.

Yuber wrote:

MadMaverick76 wrote:Wolf Lord is not a necessity, also generally to arm a Wolf Lord properly he ends up running as much as the TWC squad is to begin with. I have never run a Lord with my TWC, then again I never play over 1500 pts really.

Wolf lords are a necessity. They are the ones doing the actual killing.

You need Ld 10, and TWC are just ablative wounds for him. Never give more than 1 SS to a TWC Squad.

I would disagree. Wolf Lords on a TWC is just not worth the points in lower games, maybe higher. Also considering TWC do quite well in CC, the only time their LD comes into cause is when they lose two Wolves (with 5 TWC). But I must say I run a Rhino wall SW list, so my TWC get into CC pretty much unscathed, and tend to do a lot of damage, enough to force LD tests on my opponent.

MadMaverick76 wrote:Wolf Lord is not a necessity, also generally to arm a Wolf Lord properly he ends up running as much as the TWC squad is to begin with. I have never run a Lord with my TWC, then again I never play over 1500 pts really.

I don't think I would take any TWC at 1500. For a competitive 1500 pt list I would just use Razor/Missile/Rune Priest Spam. If you are going to play above 1500 and take TWC then a Wolf Lord on TWM is a necessity. Not a necessity for playing over 1500 just a necessity if you are going to use TWC.

OverwatchCNC wrote:
I don't think I would take any TWC at 1500. For a competitive 1500 pt list I would just use Razor/Missile/Rune Priest Spam. If you are going to play above 1500 and take TWC then a Wolf Lord on TWM is a necessity. Not a necessity for playing over 1500 just a necessity if you are going to use TWC.

I completely agree with this analysis.

I played 2 1500 pt games last night and my thunderwolf ruled.

my list is:
rune priest in term armour with jotww, LL
wolf lord on mount, power weapon, runic armour (s5,t5 and 2up saves)
4 drop pods all with 5 grey hunters, melta and 1 wolfguard termy (rune priest rides in ine of the pods)
4 twc, pw, bolt gun, mb, bolt pistol
5 twc, ss, pw, bolt gun, bolt pistol, mb
scout squad, melta


for ur 350 you can take 5 twc, ss, pw, bolt gun, bolt pistol, mb. thats 300 so 50 points for something else or 2 groups of 3 twc instead

If your army is built properly I don't think they need Storm Shields. TWC tend to shrug off hits from anything less than Plasma, S10 is the only thing that can ID them, and their Cavalry movement usually means they're either in combat or in cover all the time.

Wound abuse is fine, but piling on the wargear to try and keep them alive as long as possible isn't usually necessary.

All that said, if you have 350pts and 4 models to play around with, 2 units of 2 with 2 Storm Shields and one Thunder Hammer in each might be a way to go.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

I don't think I would take any TWC at 1500. For a competitive 1500 pt list I would just use Razor/Missile/Rune Priest Spam. If you are going to play above 1500 and take TWC then a Wolf Lord on TWM is a necessity. Not a necessity for playing over 1500 just a necessity if you are going to use TWC.

And I disagree, through use of my experience with my own 1500 pt SW list. If I went up to 2000 pts, I would then possibly add a WL, but as it stands correct usage of the TWC does not require the WL. I have never had an issue with my TWC's LD, as SW are not meant to be an overly aggressive army like BA, thus my TWC act as a counter-charge unit.

MadMaverick76 wrote:And I disagree, through use of my experience with my own 1500 pt SW list. If I went up to 2000 pts, I would then possibly add a WL, but as it stands correct usage of the TWC does not require the WL. I have never had an issue with my TWC's LD, as SW are not meant to be an overly aggressive army like BA, thus my TWC act as a counter-charge unit.

Except if you don't move forward, you will eventually fail your ld6 and run 3d6" and possibly right off the board.

imweasel wrote:

MadMaverick76 wrote:And I disagree, through use of my experience with my own 1500 pt SW list. If I went up to 2000 pts, I would then possibly add a WL, but as it stands correct usage of the TWC does not require the WL. I have never had an issue with my TWC's LD, as SW are not meant to be an overly aggressive army like BA, thus my TWC act as a counter-charge unit.

Except if you don't move forward, you will eventually fail your ld6 and run 3d6" and possibly right off the board.

Hasn't happened yet, also they are ld8. I guess it just comes down to how you use them. To me 250+ pts for one model is just too much.

MadMaverick76 wrote:Hasn't happened yet, also they are ld8. I guess it just comes down to how you use them. To me 250+ pts for one model is just too much.

BA libby's can cause an immediate morale check at -2 ld. If you just sit there, they will fail their ld sooner or later. Especially if you are testing up to 5 times a turn.

That is if a BA libby takes that skill, which I have yet to see a BA all-comers armylist in person/even on here, in which the Libby takes that skill considering there are many more useful mutli-purpose skills.

I am going from my experience, not whats on paper.

MadMaverick76 wrote:That is if a BA libby takes that skill, which I have yet to see a BA all-comers armylist in person/even on here, in which the Libby takes that skill considering there are many more useful mutli-purpose skills.

I am going from my experience, not whats on paper.

Fear is one of the best powers that a libby can take. It's included in an all comers list. Which is why in a sw all comers list, you should at least prepare for it.

imweasel wrote:

MadMaverick76 wrote:That is if a BA libby takes that skill, which I have yet to see a BA all-comers armylist in person/even on here, in which the Libby takes that skill considering there are many more useful mutli-purpose skills.

I am going from my experience, not whats on paper.

Fear is one of the best powers that a libby can take. It's included in an all comers list. Which is why in a sw all comers list, you should at least prepare for it.

Well, as a BA player, I have never used/nor seen it at any tournaments. The BA powers most used are Sanguine Sword, Shield, Blood Lance. Anyway, SW have great anti-psych abilities with regards to our own Rune Priests, so a Libby skill is not much to fear. With that said, I feel this thread has gone a bit off topic, and the OP has gotten the answers he intended. imweasel you play your way, I will play my own. And when you actually use TWC, let me know how they work for you and your method.

MadMaverick76 wrote: And when you actually use TWC, let me know how they work for you and your method.

I did use them. Quite effectively. Without a wolf lord. 3 squads of 4 at 2500. Combined with excellent long range fire support they were devastating.

Then the new ba codex came out. Sunny days turned to rainy days. 3 furioso libby's ruined my tcav's day.

The anti-psycher abilities of the rune priest are good. Unfortunately, unless I lead with the rune priest, it's hard to cover the tcav. I suppose I could leave them in the rear to cover the long fangs, but that's a pretty penny to pay for that.

MadMaverick76 wrote:Hasn't happened yet, also they are ld8. I guess it just comes down to how you use them. To me 250+ pts for one model is just too much.

Horses for courses, I think. There are downsides to running a big expensive Cavalry Lord, which is what I do currently; but there are downsides to running a big expensive TWC unit as well, which was what I used to do. The Lord will swat down infantry squads all day long, but he needs a unit of Wolves to get him into combat, he can't bust up transports very well, and charging him at a Walker is a no-no. The TWC don't kill infantry anywhere near as well as the Lord does and so can end up locked in combat for long periods of the game, plus they're not as resistant to shooting and can end up getting into combat with wounds missing, but because they have that big S10 Thunder Hammer they can be used to smash open tanks or Walkers if you get desperate.

Agree with everything else you said, though. Ld8 isn't great but it's reliable enough, and the SW Cavalry in general are more about defensive play than they are about charging forward to beat things up. They definitely don't need a Lord to 'work'; they don't really NEED anything beyond a Thunder Hammer, a couple of bodies, and some cheap shootiness behind them to help take out the stuff they can't. They're awesome enough as they are.

If you later decide to have more thunderwolves still then consider 2 squads, one with some shields and one who run behind for the cover saves. (Or you know, have power characters that splitt off and charge different units.)

I don't take special ccw to access the rending attacks, take a full 5 and then 2 land speeders. would help if we knew the rest of your list

MadMaverick76 wrote:

Yuber wrote:

MadMaverick76 wrote:Wolf Lord is not a necessity, also generally to arm a Wolf Lord properly he ends up running as much as the TWC squad is to begin with. I have never run a Lord with my TWC, then again I never play over 1500 pts really.

Wolf lords are a necessity. They are the ones doing the actual killing.

You need Ld 10, and TWC are just ablative wounds for him. Never give more than 1 SS to a TWC Squad.

I would disagree. Wolf Lords on a TWC is just not worth the points in lower games, maybe higher. Also considering TWC do quite well in CC, the only time their LD comes into cause is when they lose two Wolves (with 5 TWC). But I must say I run a Rhino wall SW list, so my TWC get into CC pretty much unscathed, and tend to do a lot of damage, enough to force LD tests on my opponent.

I find this hard to believe. How small are your TWC figs? Your rhinos shouldnt be able to total LOS block them. Or, your opponents aren't that smart. TWC is usually the first thing that gets shot at.

Yuber wrote:

MadMaverick76 wrote:

Yuber wrote:

MadMaverick76 wrote:Wolf Lord is not a necessity, also generally to arm a Wolf Lord properly he ends up running as much as the TWC squad is to begin with. I have never run a Lord with my TWC, then again I never play over 1500 pts really.

Wolf lords are a necessity. They are the ones doing the actual killing.

You need Ld 10, and TWC are just ablative wounds for him. Never give more than 1 SS to a TWC Squad.

I would disagree. Wolf Lords on a TWC is just not worth the points in lower games, maybe higher. Also considering TWC do quite well in CC, the only time their LD comes into cause is when they lose two Wolves (with 5 TWC). But I must say I run a Rhino wall SW list, so my TWC get into CC pretty much unscathed, and tend to do a lot of damage, enough to force LD tests on my opponent.

I find this hard to believe. How small are your TWC figs? Your rhinos shouldnt be able to total LOS block them. Or, your opponents aren't that smart. TWC is usually the first thing that gets shot at.

I use the mythicast TWC, also I play mostly against gunline armies (IG, Tau). My list set-up is meant to cause target prioritization issues. With Landspeeders running my opponents flanks, most of the time fire is directed towards them first. I also use any terrain to my advantage. So my Rhinos may not always completely block LOS, but a clever usage of Rhinos and terrain has definitely denied LOS a few times, and any shots that get through have cover to deal with. If your TWC are being shot, then I would say the *player* (Whomever that may be ) is not that smart.